Still figuring it all out

[TBSakaJ9]

People reveal themselves over time G....maybe this is how he was in his marriage as well. What would his XW complaints about him be? Do you know? Has he told you how he contributed to the failure of it? I was very honest with the Dr. about my short-comings.

If this is who he is and he is showing his true colors and you believe he is in-love with you but he is not capable of giving you what you need then you are going to have to make some choices if this R is for you.

In my opinion, based on what you write, to me he seems high maintenance. That everything has to be just perfect and his way. Sorry if I am off base and I don't mean to offend and if I am off you can certainly tell me.

[DejaVu6]

I agree with TB. I know you are in love G but if this is who he is, how do you think things will be a year from now or five years from now? And if he really loves you, would he not want to try to come to a compromise or meet you half way. I get that not everyone has the same needs but why should you sacrifice all of your needs in favour of his?

I’m not saying you should throw in the towel but I do think you should step back and really think about what you want your future to look like and whether or not this is it. The thing is...the easiest phase of a relationship is in the beginning. If you are having this much trouble seeing eye-to-eye at this stage, how hard is it going to be five years from now? Think about what you would tell your friend if she came to you with the same story. What advice would you give to her?

[Dawn70]

Totally agree with J9 and Deja, but I want to go back to something first before I forget it. In your initial post about this where you started by saying you were venting, at one point you asked if you were crazy for feeling the way that you do. Now, forgive me if I am saying something offensive here because that isn't my intention, but that seems to be your "normal" setting....worrying if you are wrong or "crazy" or bad or whatever. Girl, those are YOUR feelings and you are absolutely entitled to them and it is absolutely NO ONE's place to tell you that they are wrong, crazy, etc. You feel how you feel and that is ok. I have said to you before that you and I are very similar people and I used to be really bad about negative self talk like that. I finally just got to a point where I realized that I felt how I felt and it didn't matter how it appeared to anyone else because there wasn't a d@mn thing I could do about feelings anyway. If I could give you a gift in this world, it would be the gift of that ability to just sit back and realize that thoughts, feelings, emotions are ok and yours are just as valid as anyone else's. I don't know if it is getting older that has allowed me to shift my focus or what, but I hope you can find that peace at some point.

Now, back to agreeing with J9 and Deja. I have said before that I don't necessarily think M is a bad guy, nor am I advocating that you cut and run right this minute, but yeah, more than likely, you are just finally seeing his true colors because some of the new has worn off. It seems, from early on with M, that you have been expressing your needs and he kind of blows them off. Sex is very important. It is not everything, but it should be a solid part of any good relationship and if he isn't making time for that at least occasionally, it would make me wonder why. I mean, his sex drive is obviously lower than yours, but why? (Besides the obvious that you are 2 different people.) Is this something you can live with? Over time, if this pattern continues, will you grow to resent him for it?

I learned a long time ago that people do NOT change. I mean, sure, we can put lipstick on a pig, but people do not change who they inherently are for any reason at any time. M is who he is. Like J9 was saying, I would be interested to hear his XW's version of how he was in marriage. To hear my XH tell it, he was super husband and his first XW was horrible, but it became obvious to me over time that both of them were a little more middle of the road than he'd wanted to admit. It has been my experience that when someone paints their former partner in a super negative light (as M did with his XW, based on some of the things that you have said he's told you and some of your own observations), that person typically is somewhat less than honest about their role in that negative behavior.

You have to take a good hard look at what is important to you, what your needs are and whether he can legitimately meet those needs without you having to feel bad for asking for what you want/need. I'm not saying you shouldn't compromise on things occasionally, because let's face it, relationships are give and take, but you shouldn't be the one ALWAYS compromising and then feeling bad because you spoke up and asked for what you need. It seems, in this case, that you do all the giving and M does all the taking. Yes, the family vacation stuff IS great and it is amazing that y'all enjoyed it as a whole group. It is great that he has such strong feelings for you and that his son and his mother love you and D11. Those are all wonderfully positive things. But, that is only 1 part of your relationship. While neither of you stops being a parent when your children aren't with you, you also don't stop being a woman and a man in an adult, healthy, sexual, romantic relationship. In a way, I get what M means that sex is a "bonus" because if you think about it, if you like each other and enjoy each other's company AND you have great sex (regardless of frequency), then that great sex is just an added bonus to the whole deal. I don't think of it as a bonus in that it is something that is earned, but rather a bonus in an "icing on the cake" kind of sense, if that makes any sense at all.

As others have said, backing off and just giving M some space is probably for the best right now. And, do NOT feel bad about wanting to have your needs met. If he can't or won't do it, then you may have to take a long, hard, difficult look at whether staying involved is in your best interest.

[kml]

There's a phrase in the codependency literature about people who become "wantless and needless". It's coping mechanism in people who have been raised with toxic shame.
"The shame ridden personality may show up as one who is very compliant, lacking self will, and instead seeking validation from others through serving their needs and wants. This person becomes needless and wantless as they are ashamed of having needs and fearful of being shamed again by others for speaking up and having a demand to have their own needs and wants received by others."

It's VERY HEALTHY for you to have expressed your needs and desires. Don't fall back into being needless and wantless. We all know that you are extremely accommodating and it wouldn't really take that much to please you in this department.

Now, give him some time to process this. Make plans for yourself this week. Let him do the initiating. Don't mess with the conditions of the experiment - let him show you what he does with this information. (And to be fair to him, in the past when you have made your needs known, he HAS stepped up to the plate, so I do hold out some hope for the guy. )

[Ginger1]

I have been thinking about what each and every one of you has said today while I’ve been working.

I am surely confused yet again. I am on cloud 9 for what we have together as a family unit. I felt like that increased his love for me in a way, and I know it increased mine. It’s more than I could have dreamed of. The times we had just us were also amazing too. When he wanted to be with me, when I wasn’t a chore, when he would take any chance he got.

It’s like we went right to married couple when we heavily involved the kids. And I think even when they are your shared kids and you are married, adult time should be a priority. It’s how a lot of marriages fail.

And to speak to what happened in his marriage.... they had a baby then lots of stressors. They fought. And I could see how fighting with him is frustrating. He’s pretty hard headed. And I see how he is with his son. He said he checked out of the marriage with the fighting. I could see him focusing solely on his son and neglecting his relationship with his wife. It could be a possibility.

Some days I am so happy I can’t take it. Then he pulls this stuff . This kicked my butt honestly. He was mean at first, made me feel low for mentioning sex and said I wanted him to neglect his responsibilities to have sex with me. It crushed me. He validated a slight part of what I was feeling then argues with me for scheduling his time. I asked my boyfriend to see me before he went away. And I was made to feel bad for it. Then he goes on to tell me how much he loves me..... it’s spinning my head.

I am definitely backing off. I want to back off. I don’t even want to reach out right now. The thought of having sex with him gives me anxiety. Like I had with my ex. Which is a shame because it was so good and connected and intimate with M. I need him to miss me a little. Who wants to have an arguement with the one they love about spending time together ? Not me. I want him to want it. And he doesn’t, so, I don’t either.

Yes, he does get a little dramatic and regimented about his commitments . He acts like he is the only one who has them. The only one who even has a kid. He has no household responsibilities he doesn’t shop or cook or clean. He doesn’t get his son to camp or school. I worked my butt off all day, picked up my D made a nice dinner and now I have to mow the lawn while doing laundry and cleaning up. I have my fair share too. But his stuff is always bigger than mine.

As far as me expressing my needs/wants. I have been programmed to have none and to have them is wrong. You are right on the money, KML. My ex used to turn around anything I asked of him emotionally into me being a burden. My mom too, yes. So I question if I’m being unreasonable. And I’m sad he made me feel like I was. And I still don’t think I was at all.

I’m tired catering to others wants when mine are disregarded and worse yet, invalidated. It makes me feel small.

I can’t explain what’s between us. It’s a great love and sometimes it is more wonderful than I could describe. But when it’s not, it’s not. The good definitely outweighs the negative by far. But yesterday brought me back to a place with my ex, and I didn’t like that. He took my small want and blew it up into not being happy with anything and not being able to “satisfy” me.

He did text me today briefly. Then told me he has to go to work after he drops off his son tomorrow night at 8 pm which he wasn’t glad about.

I know I won’t be seeing him this week. He won’t make time. Unless he truly wants it. But I may just not be available.

My D also leaves for vacation Saturday , I’ll have a weekend to myself. Then I leave for Nashville next Thursday. Bachelorette time with my girls is what I need.

I’ve been neglecting myself. I haven’t been to the gym because I put it on hold because I hurt myself and I was too busy to pay so much money. The gym is for my physical and mental well being and it’s not there.

On the plus side, I got so many compliments on my hair and how cute and tan I look today. It felt good. M rarely compliments how I look anymore. He did tell me over text that my hair was gorgeous. But the last guy who really complimented how I looked was my exH. Imagine that.

I feel like he’s fallen into the married mode. He never flirts. Never ends me even a little flirty text. Never really had either. I guess it’s just not important to him. And what should be more important to me is he loves me and my daughter .

But KML, I am going to go an continue with this experiment. I told him what I wanted in the pass, he gave every excuse not to give it, I backed off, and he did it.

But FYI, men. Women do like to feel like a priority and they like to feel attractive.

[TBSakaJ9]

G - My best friend from K lives in Nashville, it's a very fun city. Go enjoy yourself! I was there last summer.

I wonder if some of this stuff falls into the love language category. If I remember one of yours is quality time???? Maybe he doesn't know how important it is to you. I assume he hasn't done the work that we all have so maybe that is a part of it? Could this be a learning experience for him?

You all go on vacation with his mom and son so that would tell me he does love you, care about you etc. I am not doing that if I don't love/care about someone. So I kind of lean towards this is who he is, the newness has worn off and he is comfortable. I think the coach could help him

How do you feel when you are around him? Happy, sad, on eggshells, like the only woman in the room????

I applaud you for standing up for yourself and expressing what you need.

[Ginger1]

Thank you, J. Standing up for myself is one of the hardest things for me to do. Being beaten down so many times when I have before, I just don’t do it anymore. Even though in the end, I found myself apologizing all over the place, I’m glad I spoke my mind. More to work on.

As my best friend pointed out last night, it was a huge deal for him to include me in his family part of life. I do believe he loves me and loves me as much as he says.

It does come down to love languages. He is only comfortable expressing love in HIS LL. I bet if I told him I needed something done around the house , he would have made time.

He hasn’t done the work we have . I think he believes he is giving me the world .

He is completely comfortable and feels he doesn’t need to do the stuff he once did.

How do I feel around him?? That is a good question. Sometimes, like I am the only woman in the room. When we were at the once concert, he was all about holding my hand, rubbing my leg, and all that stuff and was focused on me. The next day, not as much. Some days he is seems like he is bursting with love for me and I can feel it, other days I am barely visible when we are together. We were watching our kids play together and he put his arm around me and I just looked at him and said “I am so happy”

We need a date. We need a romantic dinner, just the two of us and we need a sleep over. I need to lay in his arms again. It’s been a while. The most we got was when he fell asleep on my chest when we were away laying on the daybed/sofa. And it lasted 15 min because it was really uncomfortable, lol.

I haven’t heard from his since 11 which isn’t unusual. He has a lot to do tonight. I would reach out and say goodnight, but I’m not going to.

I want him to want me, not just be another chore on his list.

[TBSakaJ9]

I think he needs a come to G meeting! The Dr. and I usually text a bit in the morning, usually a brief chat around lunch then we chat a bit or talk on the phone at night. I don't know what kind of job he has but everyone has time for something brief. This morning I was at the gym and sent the Dr. something simple..."Good morning beautiful, have a great day! Hope you slept well". It doesn't have to be much.

Just remember a couple of things. If he wanted to break up he already would have done so, I do believe he loves you. I think it is going to come down to whether or not he can give you what you need. If he is willing to change and be more present, be more aware and understanding of your needs. Does he have the ability to do so or is this how he is hard wired.

It doesn't mean he is a bad person as the way he is could work for someone else. Ultimately if he can't change it just might not work for you.

As a suggestion I would make it crystal clear to him what you need. In my marriage my XW didn't do that and unfortunately I was not equipped to read between the lines. I heard the complaints but didn't understand the seriousness of them. If you love him do him and yourself a favor and make it crystal clear so there is no mistake in the message you deliver.

Hang in there G love!

[Ginger1]

I was doing lots of thinking( as per usual) and I realized I not for one second have thought about letting this relationship go. I still see this to be long term. I have found a guy who I do believe loves me,Ioves my child, and Vice Vera. That is a rarity. A gem to hold on to. And when we do get that alone time, it’s great. And our time with our kids is great.

I was very clear on my needs. I didn’t want him to guess. I told him. And his rebuttal was “ you mention needs, but aren’t those wants?” And we got into a whole debate about psychological vs. physiological needs. We were sending google links to each other, lol. I finally said “didn’t you tell me you “need” alone time? Sounds more like a want to me!” And that’s when he threw in the towel, lol.

He texts me every morning something sweet, drops a text in the day, and one at night when it’s really hectic. He did eventually text me, didn’t ask how I was, just mentioned he was pooped and a few other things. He wished me goodnight, told me he loves me with a bunch of kissy emojis.

I have counted out seeing him this week. And history does show, I make a need known, he tells me why he can’t fulfill it, then slowly does. My D is going to a sleep over tonight, to her dads tomorrow night, then on vacation for a week. This weekend is going to be hot as heck, I want to go to my dads at the beach, but this dog! I’m going to beg to take him. We shall see. Got some good stuff lined up for myself. I’ve decided to take my first kickboxing class in 2 years. Should feel good! Or I’ll vomit. Could go either way.

[TBSakaJ9]

Good G....sounds like you are in a good place. Now you just sit back and see what he does with it. Hold the line!