Your W sounds a lot like mine. She had it all planned out. Quickie online cheap D. Wanted none of "my" money. Just maybe some furniture. If keep house, she'd have an apartment nearby. She'd have a key to help with dogs, have dinner at the house a couple times a week. D would live with me and come for visits. She'd host dinners at the apartment occasionally.
She'd get a job to enable her life. Oh and we'd go out on dates.
The one thing that always went through my head was the words that women don't need their own place to find or work on themselves or on the marriage. They need their own place to sleep with other people.
I'd dispel that fairy tale whenever I could. I told her we'd sell the house and split the equity and all other assets. If move in with a friend of mine. Etc. She'd balk at that. I would tell her "it's no fair you get to go out and start I new life but expect that I don't as well."
That seemed to make an impact. Notice I wasn't saying "I'm going to fight for the marriage at all costs." I was actually embracing what she wanted, and pointing out that is be moving on too.
It also hit her with guilt. Over the splitting of money, and D losing her family home.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Funny you jogged my memory on her Fantasty where I live nearby and she comes over to cook me dinner with kids. You know, whilst the duplex is being built. Very good point about apartment and living a life.
You've nailed what I've been feeling but could not articulate. I need to start my life without her. And that means living not close, not in a duplex, and having the means to buy a new place when I repartner. I need to start a new life, not livd her fantasy. Thanks, something I might say when she pressures on action.
When I'm back from vacation, I'm going to do a different GAL. We do tend to watch TV together after kids are in bed. I'm intending to just leave for gym or concert or whatever. No goodbyes, just leave. Alternative is to just go to my room, play guitar, practice a new language, whatever. I feel I'm not GALing enough to make a difference for me and for my W to take notice. I'm still too present for it to sink it that I'm not her H.
So I'm back from vacation. The last few days she had trouble sleeping. And I know why. She is rattled when I said I'm not going to support her. Her wheels are turning because her fantasy property settlement isn't possible. I recall her words about "promising to support me" (which I didn't, I promised to support keeping the family home) and "is there something I should be worried about?". Which I said "no" but probably should have said "I don't know how you feel, that is up to you".
I confirmed with some quick math that any split will involve a complete breakup of the family if she wishes to indulge in her apartment fantasy. So this could be an interesting escalation.
Here's my question to y'all. We had great family time, with ups and downs, on our trip. I went out and did my own thing a few times but other than that it felt like a normal family relationship except intimacy. So moving forward, if I recall from DB, any family times I should be present, but otherwise no? What about things like family dinners at her parents? Obviously I attend my Son's birthday party, but what about her family get togethers? Or if She wants to go out for a birthday dinner? I'm just wanting to know what the appropriate DB line to draw here.
The next big test is GAL this week. I'm dropping all time together after kids go to bed. I'm going out each night to gym or just faking it and smoking in the car. I'm just going to tell her "I'm going out" and that's it.
What about SMSs in the daytime? Sometimes there are complaints and things that are not child related. Ignore, reply, or just tell her to not do it any more? I read somewhere that encouraging SMS just keeps me in the friend zone and it should strictly be "business" only.
I'm looking to ratchet up the DB as I feel it needs to go to the next level. Just trying to understand the boundaries since I still live with her and we have young kids.
So I'm back from vacation. The last few days she had trouble sleeping. And I know why. She is rattled when I said I'm not going to support her.
Good! Let her sweat a little.
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I recall her words about "promising to support me" (which I didn't, I promised to support keeping the family home)
Yes and she promised to love, honor and cherish until death do you part. Next time she decides to hold you to a promise you made, you might want to remind her of that one. Promises are not legally binding.
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Here's my question to y'all. We had great family time, with ups and downs, on our trip. I went out and did my own thing a few times but other than that it felt like a normal family relationship except intimacy. So moving forward, if I recall from DB, any family times I should be present, but otherwise no? What about things like family dinners at her parents? Obviously I attend my Son's birthday party, but what about her family get togethers? Or if She wants to go out for a birthday dinner? I'm just wanting to know what the appropriate DB line to draw here.
Personally I think it's OK to do kid-focused stuff jointly such as birthday parties, but some here would argue that you should not even do that. So that's kind of your call. But I definitely would not go to dinner with her parents, or any other visits with her parents. It's going to seem really awkward cutting out the cake-eating at first, but it needs to be done.
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The next big test is GAL this week. I'm dropping all time together after kids go to bed. I'm going out each night to gym or just faking it and smoking in the car. I'm just going to tell her "I'm going out" and that's it.
I wouldn't fake it, and I wouldn't force it. If you don't have something to do then stay home. You shouldn't avoid the home just because she is there, remember that the home is your castle and you shouldn't let her mess that up for you. So sometimes stay, sometimes go. Don't "dump" the kids on her either, you should be sharing with responsibilities in taking care of them. And you don't want them to wonder why you're just disappearing every evening. Sometimes involve them in GAL, maybe you take them to the park to do something, or take them to a movie.
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What about SMSs in the daytime? Sometimes there are complaints and things that are not child related. Ignore, reply, or just tell her to not do it any more? I read somewhere that encouraging SMS just keeps me in the friend zone and it should strictly be "business" only.
The rule is sometimes reply right away, sometimes wait a while, and sometimes (if it's not important) don't reply at all. The idea is to portray that you are busy, moving on and not hovering over your phone waiting for her messages.
I'm not dropping any home responsibilities and will either leave after kids in bed or arrange to come home late with permission of course.
Man, family lunches are like twice a month and I'm really close to the inlaws. There has been no formal announcement of BD but they aren't stupid and see we've not been in the same bed for almost a year. Giving that up is going to be way tough and will probably initiate family questions as it will be out of character. I'm the inlaw that is there the most. Will put pressure on W that's for sure.
This evening she wanted to watch TV together (after kids in bed). I declined and stayed in my room practising guitar all evening. No goodnight (she put herself to bed). Would have been awkward as we just came off a great last day of a family trip.
Curious if Steve85 or anyone else have an opinion on family lunches.
Ok, so I've got my head around no visits to inlaws. I still think doing kids things, like school pickups, birthdays, events like soccer still must happen. They need Dad support.
What about when asked to do odd things around the house, like help cook or some other thing I normally don't do?
Still can't get my head around going cold turkey with regards to in-laws.
I still think doing kids things, like school pickups, birthdays, events like soccer still must happen. They need Dad support.
Oh yes, absolutely.
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What about when asked to do odd things around the house, like help cook or some other thing I normally don't do?
Honestly it probably doesn't matter one way or the other. Most of us ended up here through death-by-a-thousand-papercuts. We didn't do any one thing terribly wrong, but our wives felt alone and neglected emotionally for months or years and finally broke. There's no one thing that got you here and no one thing that'll get you out of it. For now nothing you do is going to have much impact on her or change her mind. But changed behavior over a long period of time might do that. If you do end up separating then you can get serious about detaching, but while living together it's tough to implement a lot of this stuff. So help her, or don't help her, it's really your choice. But if you do help her then just try to keep in mind it's not going to change anything for now.
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Still can't get my head around going cold turkey with regards to in-laws.
Same as above, go or don't go, it's your choice. It's not going to change anything either way. If she leaves then I would definitely use that as an opportunity to cut back on contact and "group" activities though.
I had a last minute meet up with a friend. Did let W know I'm going out but not with whom. I get panic afternoon email that son got mad and hit her (he's six). I ignore. I get SMS about when I'm coming home. I already said, but reply two hours later restating time. I get another SMS about something boring happened to her. I ignore. She asks if I read her email. I ignore and then come home at the time I said.
I get rage about my Son but definately validate her feelings. Sounded traumatic. Then I get the corresponding relationship rage. "Do I know its over?" (I say I know), do you know Ive been waiting 10 years for this (married for 9, go figure, I say nothing), "I must sell the house now!" (she doesn't want to but given i said im not suppoting her she probably realises now it's the only way. I say nothing), "I'm trapped and need to move out!" (she hasn't made the effort. Complains, but no action, I say I understand), "You must feel miserable too!" (i say no, im fine).
I go back to my room and 10 minutes later she calls me to watch tv. I declined yesterday, but today i accept. She's just been browsing apartment listings on her phone, obviously making a statement. Tv show is fine, we have good time.
Night ends with W showing some nice pics of kids taken today. I leave for bed and she asks where I've been. I say out and then good night.
Yeah this is getting real tough. She's starts her period any day and that usually means rage. Indeed she initiated BD in thst frame of mind. Is this form of GAL effective? It's clear she's rattled, I'm not normally out, and certainly not vague. I can't see how totally ghosting her and being holed up in my room is effective. I mean wouldn't completely ignoring her just reinforce her feeling to separate? I don't like the idea of ignoring her birthday. But do I ever do that for friends? No way. I'm torn.
In all honesty I am feeling more detached than ever. I just realised how awesome separation will be. No pessimistic, emotionally abusive wife, a couple nights to myself, and no kids 24/7. I thought I wanted to save the marriage. Now I don't care. Because she won't change and I doubt she'd accept the strings (boundaries) that would be attached to piecing.
I'm not saying I'm defeated. I'd take her back if the topic came up and we agreed to work on it. But I'm not sure how much of her anger I can take. I feel she's upset that I'm stealing her cake. And I do feel a bit dodgy for being evasive. I can only wait and see I guess.
No pessimistic, emotionally abusive wife, a couple nights to myself, and no kids 24/7. I thought I wanted to save the marriage. Now I don't care. Because she won't change and I doubt she'd accept the strings (boundaries) that would be attached to piecing.
Its strange how this just hits you when the rose coloured glasses finally fall off.. I loved my WW, but once i detached, i really started to see how emotionally abusive she was.. Lots of blackmail and rows if i didnt get her own way... Her favourite was "Why did you never listen to me?" - I always listened but refused to back down on stupid irrational decissions - what she really meant was "why did you never let me do x y z"... My WW would never change / accept boundaries either, so it made my decission to walk away easier. Keep it up
Previous username - Helpme123.. A name chosen at a desperate time..
Now Mr Brightside.. coming out of my cage, and doing just fine.
In all honesty I am feeling more detached than ever. I just realised how awesome separation will be. No pessimistic, emotionally abusive wife, a couple nights to myself, and no kids 24/7. I thought I wanted to save the marriage. Now I don't care. Because she won't change and I doubt she'd accept the strings (boundaries) that would be attached to piecing.
I think what you mean is... you are willing to R, but you won't go back to the old MR. It has to be a new MR.
The advantages of separation you outline are definitely there. There are also disadvantages - loneliness (at times) for one.
I apologize if you have answered these questions before -- what has your W stated are the goals of separation? Separation is another form of limbo and without clear goals I think it's inevitable that D is not far behind. In my case I am handling the emotional piece of separation as, essentially, a divorce filing. The logistical pieces less so (not getting legal documentation for all our agreements, etc.). We are going to "MC" (essentially a separation counselor) - the first few sessions have been to help sort out the logistics of the separation and learn how to communicate better, but I have made clear that long-term I will only continue to go if we are working on the MR.
I highly suggest you think about what changes you would need to see in your W in order to take her back. Like you I also said for awhile "I would take her back if things changed" but then I had trouble outlining specifically what needed to change. I don't think this needs to be a list of every complaint, but an honest list of "if she checked off every box, I would consider R". You may look at the list and realize it is completely unrealistic for your W to change in that way. If anything, this will be therapeutic. And will also help focus you on your own needs (common NG problem). And will help you think about the qualities you would seek in a future partner. And will help you gauge whether there is any progress during the separation...
