Man the ring. Let me tell you, I was watching that so obsessively. Some days on, other off, once she threw it off in front of me after an argument. Now i don't care. She wears other rings on her ring finger now. I see this when she goes to work. Sometimes its off at home, sometimes not. I left mine on from BD to a couple of weeks ago. Now, like you, it's off. Because whatever happens, a new sitch needs a new symbol. That's exactly my POV. And I don't hide from the fact I'm seperated at work. My family has NFI, her family suspects. The way things are going, it'll probably be out shortly. Her call, 100%.
In any event, seems your gal went through the same emotions as mine. The ring, it seems, is a proxy.
This was very predictable and we warned you what was going on and sometimes you seemed liked you understood and then at times you didn't understand. There is a reason why you don't advise mc unless it's to work on the marriage. Waste of money and a WW checklist. Every action has a purpose. She intentionally didn't wear the ring make no mistake about it.
Unfortunately you went from one limbo to another. If you can keep your expectations low I think you're heading in the right direction.
There is a reason why you don't advise mc unless it's to work on the marriage.
At the very outset of my sit in Sept I suggested MC. It was shot down hard. I never did it again bc she said flat out she didnt want to go.
Your W has shown you by her actions (ring off) how she is feeling right now. There is no "trial" separation, it's just a separation. Doesnt matter if its "in house" like mine or "trial" like yours.
The goal of a separation is exactly that. To be separate. To live alone bc you dont want to be with your partner anymore.
Apologies if it's a bit brutal. I dont mean to offend you, U but it's probably the best way to look at it right now.
Cant tell you what to do, but if it were me I would inform the MC at the next appointment that "I see no point in going to marriage counseling if we are not going to work on the marriage, however I will continue to go to IC".
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Unfortunately you went from one limbo to another. If you can keep your expectations low I think you're heading in the right direction.
After 11 months of this, i have come to realize that as long as you are standing for your M, you will be in limbo.
U, This was very predictable and we warned you what was going on and sometimes you seemed liked you understood and then at times you didn't understand. There is a reason why you don't advise mc unless it's to work on the marriage. Waste of money and a WW checklist. Every action has a purpose. She intentionally didn't wear the ring make no mistake about it.
LH19 - After a night of sleep I realize a ring is a symbol, she did that intentionally, okay, I don't need to get all worked up about it. It changes nothing. It highlights that I am still too focused on trying to deduce where my W is at.
MC has helped with the S. My W has toned down the text mind-reading in particular. There is a lot less drama. I am pleased with that result.
Long-term - I just have to gauge week-by-week what I am getting out of it, rather than trying to set goals. I just cannot see the bigger picture right now.
For instance, next week, we are going to try an exercise where one person expresses resentment about something and the other practices listening skills. Now... I know what my W resents me for. I've heard it all in various forms of sh*t tsunamis (my favorite term for this). If she speaks, it will be more of the same. When it's my turn to speak... I have no clue what I'll say, but I will go for it absolutely. To get it off my chest, to heal, to let go, to see how it feels to speak about my hurt feelings instead of bottle them up. It may also signal to my W what she would need to change if we are to reconcile. I need time to sort out and make sure I am not doing this with reconciliation in mind. I need to be doing it for me.
But... the above exercise also makes no sense to me. Two people who are splitting up don't need to go through this. It's not necessary for effective co-parenting. It's all very confusing. Maybe the counselor is throwing me a bone by doing this exercise, sensing I may want to get some things off my chest. I don't know.
I think he sees that W and I are at an emotional impasse and we are a hopeless case without some assistance getting over the past. I remain hesitant to express my own resentments because I see no point. I don't think she is receptive at all. Maybe I shouldn't care. What do I have to lose?
I get it, I need to stop worrying about "are we working on the MR, or not?"
Originally Posted by LH19
Unfortunately you went from one limbo to another. If you can keep your expectations low I think you're heading in the right direction.
LH19 - My expectations are a divorce in my future. I don't know how, by whom, or when.
I feel like I'm stuck inside a mountain train tunnel. There is light at both ends. On one end, I know exactly how far away the light is - about 2 years walk up hill. I have to be careful not to get railroaded - the trains in this tunnel for some reason don't have any warning lights. As I get closer to the light I'll get some glimpses of the views. Once I reach the end and get out in the open air....aaahhhhhhh. On the other end, I just can't gauge the distance. It could be 1 month of easy downhill walking. It could be 10 years of clambering uphill. And I can't tell if the light is from another beautiful mountaintop or fire...
I assess this situation like the engineer that I am and I think -- one way is 2 years. The other way is an average of 5 years, with a high variance. I am not a gambler. I really badly want to start walking, standing in this stuffy dark tunnel is not where I want to be.
There is a reason why you don't advise mc unless it's to work on the marriage.
At the very outset of my sit in Sept I suggested MC. It was shot down hard. I never did it again bc she said flat out she didnt want to go.
Your W has shown you by her actions (ring off) how she is feeling right now. There is no "trial" separation, it's just a separation. Doesnt matter if its "in house" like mine or "trial" like yours.
The goal of a separation is exactly that. To be separate. To live alone bc you dont want to be with your partner anymore.
Apologies if it's a bit brutal. I dont mean to offend you, U but it's probably the best way to look at it right now.
Cant tell you what to do, but if it were me I would inform the MC at the next appointment that "I see no point in going to marriage counseling if we are not going to work on the marriage, however I will continue to go to IC".
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Unfortunately you went from one limbo to another. If you can keep your expectations low I think you're heading in the right direction.
After 11 months of this, i have come to realize that as long as you are standing for your M, you will be in limbo.
IW - Thank you for your honesty, I've said it many times - the posts I like here are the honest ones. I don't come for validation or soft advice. Please don't ever hold back what you really think.
You are 100% right - this is just a separation, no trial.
MC is a bit of a sham. We went last year, then stopped. I asked to go a few times since January. Finally we go, but it is to this guy who specializes in s mediation. He also does MC, but the writing is on the wall.
The MC does help with the kid stuff. That's about all it has helped with honestly. But that alone is worth it. I don't want to play out drama in front of my kids. I thought previously it was just my W being dramatic, but I've learned that sometimes I trigger her and I've learned how to communicate differently and avoid triggering her. That's all fine. If it is good for my kids, great. I'm okay approaching MC as "learning how to operate better within a relationship" rather than "how to fix things with my W in particular." --- for awhile.
I could go on and on with reflections about limbo. Your comment about standing and limbo made me think...
Limbo, divorced, separated, reconciled, married -- these are all States of the MR. True detachment involves no longer self-identifying with the State of your MR. That includes limbo.
We react to limbo with aversion. We push it away. We say "I hate limbo, but I am standing for my M so I guess I am stuck here." Aversion itself is a signal that we are not detached.
Maybe there is a different way to view limbo. The universe has a way of creating situations that force you to tackle your shortcomings.
I don't know, I'm rambling incoherently. I have the advantage of physical separation now which helps me have some space away from the daily tension. Limbo feels like a form of attachment. If I remove my W from my thoughts, there is no limbo, there is just me, living my life the best I can, working on myself. Spend a day completely forgetting about my MR and limbo dissipates into thin air. Those are the best days.
UC, you have this frustrating habit of BSing yourself sometimes. When you went to the first MC session your goal was to get the BD over with and be out of limbo.Then the goal changed to the MC is helping with how we negotiate S terms, kids issues, communication with wife etc but none of the goals included your wife working on the MC. However, subconsciously it seems that this has always been one of your goals. I know you have made a lot of progress on detaching and GAL but this is something you should get clarity on. Is one of the goals of your MC saving your MR? If not, why does it matter whether your wife is wearing her ring or not?
If I had to guess I think you are getting to the point where you know you MR is dead but need MC to check the box that you did everything to save it for the sake of your kids.
UC, you have this frustrating habit of BSing yourself sometimes. When you went to the first MC session your goal was to get the BD over with and be out of limbo.Then the goal changed to the MC is helping with how we negotiate S terms, kids issues, communication with wife etc but none of the goals included your wife working on the MC. However, subconsciously it seems that this has always been one of your goals. I know you have made a lot of progress on detaching and GAL but this is something you should get clarity on. Is one of the goals of your MC saving your MR? If not, why does it matter whether your wife is wearing her ring or not?
If I had to guess I think you are getting to the point where you know you MR is dead but need MC to check the box that you did everything to save it for the sake of your kids.
MLCxH - My primary goal was always to go to MC to work on the MR. Not save the MR (any MR with my W would have to be MR 2.0 where we both change).
However, my W showed clear signs of wanting a D. I expected going to MC was going to be the setting for the BD, and I decided this was okay, because she could barely talk to me 1:1 about anything of importance for the prior 6 months. It was important to me to get that clarity.
Then MC morphed into talking about the kids, S terms, communication, etc. D or S this would have happened.I have seen that MC benefits my kids. But still... not working on the MR.
Once that MC benefit dries up, we are left with --- what are we doing here? If it's not working on the MR, there is no point in going. And then we are left with an aimless S. I firmly believe S is doomed to D if there are not attempts to work on things.
The ring was a test of my detachment, and clearly I needed to realign my perception with reality. I'm too worked up trying to answer the "Are we working on the MR?" question, and I saw the ring as a symbol of commitment. The fact is... I don't even know what my level of commitment is right now, and a ring is a hunk of metal with some stones in it. Rather than trying to scratch the anxiety itch, I need to just let it be for awhile.
And yes, I am aware that I am still BS'ing myself if I think I'm 100% accepting of D today.
One of the reasons I post on this message board is to try to communicate to the LBS is that they have more power then they think in these circumstances and that they don’t have to relinquish it all to the WW. If not working on the marriage in MC is a deal breaker for you then stop it. Take some control back. Dictate to her that she’s not calling all the shots, because so far she’s controlled everything.
Once that MC benefit dries up, we are left with --- what are we doing here there is no point in continuing MC anymore. Current MR is dead If it's not working on the MR, there is no point in going
.
Fixed that for you if your goals in MC are really what you stated
Originally Posted by LH19
U, If not working on the marriage in MC is a deal breaker for you then stop it. Take some control back. Dictate to her that she’s not calling all the shots, because so far she’s controlled everything.
^^^^This. You have come a long way in getting control of your emotions but I agree with LH that she is still in control of the situation here
I'm too worked up trying to answer the "Are we working on the MR?" question
Hey U - not to beat up on you here but the two of you are not working on the MR. Only one of you is, only one of you wants to. And that person is Unchien.
I know you want to work on your MR. We all do. Otherwise what the hell are we all doing here on this site? But the conventional ways of doing that are not working.
I get it, I really do. Your W and mine are similar in not wanting to talk. So we figure that if we go somewhere that is "safe" to talk we can figure some way out of this.
But we can't. W has to want to work on it. We cannot control that.
I ask you to revisit why you are continuing to go to MC. Make sure that your motivations are strictly for your kids and mediation-like agreements and that is all. And not that it's trying to hang on to any silver of a hope to work on the MR.
I know - I was doing the same thing with my house and trying to keep it, BSing myself in the process and justifying not wanting to cooperate. But it was really me hanging onto hope.
I've since let it go.
You dont have to do what I do. I dont know your real life sit, i just know what you post here. So i get why you might be skeptical. And that's ok too - take everything here with a grain of salt - i do that too. But all I'm saying is just think about it. Look inside and see what all your reasons are for going to MC - list them out if you like.
