Hey IW - I actually don’t have a dog. My user name is a reference to a song from a band I like, which itself references an old film by an artist my W likes. A surrealist. I thought it perfectly encapsulates the surreal nature of the situation in general. Twilight zone.
I feel for you in the IHS. I did 3 months of that and it was torture trying to GAL in that environment. For better or worse, the physical S has lifted my spirits. Maybe I wasn’t strong enough during the IHS.
It has also given me a lot of perspective. I’m not really intending to throw myself out there. A lot of the intense emotions have subsided. Sadness and worry have been replaced primarily by anger. Not a seething anger. I would call it a healthy anger. I spend a lot of time reflecting on it.
I think about how disconnected I have felt from my W. I think about how the friends I’ve reached out to during limbo have provided more support than my W has in years. I think about defining what I want in relationships, whether with my W or somebody else. I’m thinking less about my W specifically and more what I would want in a relationship in general. I think this focus is because I intend to be more vocal in MC about what I would need in our future MR if we are to somehow work things out.
It’s a weird feeling. I feel like my W and I just went through a breakup. But we still have kids and a house and assets and we are married. It’s like a giant mess is sitting there to be cleaned up. Either we clean it up by starting a new relationship, or we take care of business and go our separate ways. I know either way the cleanup process will bring with it a whole new set of emotional triggers and grieving.
You are right to call me out. I need time to keep working on myself. Part of this process is thinking about relationships and how I can make sure I don’t repeat past mistakes.
Uni the part about thinking about relationships constantly is the same things I have been doing from my almost 10 years of M and all my other relationships. It pains me because of the mistakes that I have made over and over and over. But this is different I'm learning from a lot of mistakes I made that wasn't even aware I was making throughout the 9 years. It's so painful at times to keep going through these mistakes over and over again in your head because you want to learn from them but then as you think about them its so emotionally exhausting and draining.
IHC - I hear you about the problem of obsessing over relationships.
I don't feel like I'm in an obsessive cycle. I am hitting a point where I need to really consider what I would need in a R with my W. Not that I am hoping for R, but if I don't at least have clear in my head what I would need, then I am susceptible to continuing in this aimless limbo for a long time.
My question Uni is after all that trust has been broken. The D filing, the accusations, intentional or not, the gaslighting, the blame shaming, the division of everything, the ignoring, the mediation, the coldness, all of it. Why would any LBH or LBW want to ever trust that person again? I mean its not to say that can't be earned back with time patience and commitment, but? I still feel we would have to have rocks in our heads to even want to give it another shot? Is love really that blind? Not to make the LBH sound like a victim, there are two parties with unhealthy dynamics at fault.
My question Uni is after all that trust has been broken. The D filing, the accusations, intentional or not, the gaslighting, the blame shaming, the division of everything, the ignoring, the mediation, the coldness, all of it. Why would any LBH or LBW want to ever trust that person again? I mean its not to say that can't be earned back with time patience and commitment, but? I still feel we would have to have rocks in our heads to even want to give it another shot? Is love really that blind? Not to make the LBH sound like a victim, there are two parties with unhealthy dynamics at fault.
These are all good questions to ponder. People attracted to the DB forums are a self-selecting group, willing to stick it out.
Gaslighting, blame, resentment, coldness - if I thought my W was just intentionally a complete and utter monster, of course I would be an idiot to stick around. I choose to think she has her own emotional baggage, and a lot of these behaviors are a consequence. Just like my own issues caused me to seek reassurance excessively, pester her for physical affection, act passive-aggressively, and avoid conflict.
I changed my excessive reassurance-seeking. I stopped pestering her for affection. It helped nothing. Changing behavior is a good start, but not sufficient. True change comes from changing the underlying thoughts, beliefs and attitudes that drive behavior.
In my W's case, resentment, coldness, inability to resolve conflict effectively, poor communication - what are her issues driving this behavior? Do I believe she is capable of change? Does she even recognize the problematic behavior in the first place? Would I be remiss if I did not at least point these things out to her?
I have my ideas of why she has her issues. I won't even bother to list them out. It has nothing to do with DB'ing. She will either figure it out or not. In the same way, it is not her responsibility to help me figure out my own issues.
Can she regain my trust? I have no idea. I really don't. I could file for D today in anger, and maybe in 10 years she would regain my trust. Or I could sit patiently and wait, and in 2 months she could rebuild trust. I have no idea. I can't lay out the steps to regain trust, but it is a steep mountain for certain.
I am a strange creature IHC. I believe in the inherent goodness of people. I believe there is a lot less pure evil and badness in this world than most people would believe. Yes, people can be vindictive, mean, hurtful, nasty, spiteful, selfish - I just think people are running on auto-pilot most of the time and using the same old coping strategies they have always used. Do I want to be around it? No. Do I believe people can change? Absolutely.... but it's not easy. It took the worst situation of my life to motivate me to make positive changes after all.
I understand you made a decision to move on, and I respect that. I have 3 kids and several years of (mostly) good memories with this woman. If I am going to move on I want to be absolutely certain it is the best decision for me and the kids.
Argh I was doing pretty well deflecting text skirmishes, but took the bait this morning.
When my W first asked for S last month, she asked to take D5 to a party on one of the days I have the kids. I (stupidly) said okay, trying to keep the peace. That party was today. I agreed to it, and have decided I will follow through on any agreements I make, and I will also only make agreements in the future that align with my best interests. After the timeshare showdown, I will not be agreeing to anything without careful consideration. I am being kind of nitpicky on dates and times and logistics, but I feel like that is exactly what to be specific about right now.
This party did really annoy me partly because of missing time with D5, but also because it created this opportunity for the kids to feel left out, confused, etc. Just a really poor idea.
I was texting W this morning about the times for drop-off and pick-up. She mentioned that D3 was upset about not going to the party. I ignored that bait. She mentioned she would tell D5 there was a "strict time limit" at the party. I bit on that bait. I was offended she was going to tell D5 there was a "strict time limit" -- the implication being that they could have stayed but it's daddy's day. I said something to the effect of hoping D5 did not feel like she had to choose between party and dad, or that the fun had to stop to go to dad's house. Oh boy, that unleashed my W. She was upset that I would think she would do that, she said "I know you feel like you are unheard" (?) and on and on. I just said, "Let's not get into a text exchange, we both know we end up misunderstanding and mind reading each other all the time over text. See you at xx pm." The "strict time limit" wording really annoyed me. Maybe my W will subtly play games with our kids like this, I can't really control it.
It was a minor flare-up but a reminder I need to do better. I can handle our conflict in person in MC, or when we speak on the phone once a week. I need to ignore ALL text message bait.
One other mistake... W keeps going in for a hug whenever we do pick-ups and drop-offs. I've kind of done the side-hug turn-away thing, not sure really what to do. Now, the humorous side of me thinks "This is like getting to 2nd base!" But I do feel like it's really strange she does this. Not a big deal, it's pretty much the same affection we had since last October, it's the same type of hug you would give a friend.... but not an X.
I had an awesome GAL week: - Daily meditation, first time I have had a multi-day streak going - Joined the gym, lifted weights twice - Played pickup basketball twice - Started a new hobby project in the garage - Met an ex-colleague for dinner on Wednesday
I hear you on the texting skirmishes. Especially since it seems to be the only way W is willing to communicate.
What I've done if it's not an urgent exchange is stop replying immediately. This changes the dynamic quite a bit. I wait and think about what I am going to say. How to say it - rewrite it in my head before typing it out, then proofread what I write before sending it.
Usually if there is a text that is not a question I will keep the response short and concise but civil. Things are not as they were before, in her head the R is over - so why would the "immediate response" text remain?
You can't control what kind of parent your W will be - it [censored] that she said that about strict time limit - but I do recall those exact words being flung around during my parents' D when I was 11 or 12 and beyond.
I don't have kids, but maybe some of the vets with kids can chime in here and offer words of encouragement or advice.
I wouldn't worry too much about one exchange. I slipped up too the other night, but there were a lot of improvements in how I was able to validate. I think you're getting there too - it's all a learning process.
IW - We think alike on how to handle the texts. If it's not an urgent question, I vary the responses anywhere from "in a while" to "never" (but always civil).
I would say today's session went so-so, except W had her wedding band off. In its place, on the LH ring finger, 3 little bands for each of our 3 kids (she got them when each was born). Hard to ignore.
I know DB advice would be to ignore it.
My W's storyline is she needs time and space, she will continue going to IC to "heal", and she will go back to work. I'm not sure what else she is trying to achieve in separation. The S feels aimless and I said that in MC. Supposedly next week we will work on some communication techniques, and the counselor hinted at this being an opportunity to let go of past resentments. Maybe he sees that I need an opportunity to speak some of my truth. I'm not sure it's going to matter, but I'll give it a go. Something to consider the next week in between GAL'ing.
We talked a bit in MC about handling the kids. Now that I have had them two weekends at my place, things do seem to be falling into place and we have a good system going. It really has been pretty straightforward. That is all great - but not for a marriage.
My opinion is my W is showing no true commitment to working on the MR. Sure, better communication and being more civil with each other is all good stuff, but that is not going to fix what broke. Working on the MR, to me, is working on what broke.
Part of my mind, the part I have worked to shut off, worries she is just "handling" me to have a nice smooth divorce - and I feel like telling her "Go ahead with it! All this extra time and space is doing no good." Honestly, she can go ahead and file now, or in a week, or 2 months - I'm going to handle it the same regardless. Also keep in mind in our state D would likely take 18 months or so, so there is no mad rush here.
Anyways... I asked her about the band. I haven't heard back yet. Maybe she will ignore, or lie, or defend, or counter-attack... I'm okay with any outcome. Maybe she will say she wants to date other people. I don't know. I don't think this is a "bite your tongue" item for me in my sitch at this moment. She may feel like she is not emotionally connected to me, or whatever, but that ring is a commitment and a symbol.
So now that the process of separating has almost completed, I am back in limbo. A different limbo - much happier and healthier, but less time (although higher quality time) with kids, and waaaaay worse financially. I learned a lot from the first limbo. Second limbo is different also because I don't feel like I need the GIFT of TIME as much as the first time around. I'm feeling good. I'm not breaking down emotionally. I'm working out, being productive at work, enjoying my time with the kids, meditating, really understanding my emotions at a deeper level.
There is a fork in the road. Divorce, or work on the MR. Anything else is just standing in place, going nowhere. I'm excited to pursue the next phase of my life, and I'm excited to take either path. I just can't stand still, I already did enough of that the first go-round.
