I think a lot of it depends on what you want. But as you said, sometimes you think you want something when that is not the case. In my sitch I pressured my wife and it led to D. When I look back at it now, I wonder if I actually did a good thing by pressuring her to make a decision because I likely would have just extended limbo otherwise. Now, I have clarity on my sitch and I am able to move on. If there is R it has to be a new MR anyways. At least now I can move on. With every passing day I am also stronger in setting clear terms for a new MR and I am also detaching so if a new MR does not happen I feel I will be ok.
Not really in any shape to offer support or arguments right now, but I would maybe revisit the timelines idea. It's pressure.
It's definitely pressure.
I don't think pressure is always bad, but it's something I definitely need to reflect on more as I am not feeling very decisive. We did originally agree to a 6-month separation, but it's clear the way my W talks that is not her intent. Do I hold her to the 6 months? Would that be unnecessary pressure? I honestly don't know, and it's not something I feel I need to resolve immediately, but if I let it go things will likely drag out.
I would counter that if you're standing for the M, there would be no deadline. I have none. This takes the time it takes. I didnt want the MR to end, my W effectively ended it because she is in a MLC or depression or WAW mindset or whatever the hell you want to call it.
I did get a few peeks inside my W's mind over the arguments and fights last year. It's why I dont ask anymore, why I removed all pressure (i still screw up from time to time but it's really rare now). It is absolute chaos inside her head right now. I would bet it's like that inside your Ws head too.
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At some point in the DB process, the LBS ideally can accept any MR outcome. At that point, if the LBS feels in limbo, I don't think pressure to move in some direction is necessarily a bad thing. The trick is that the LBS can be fooled into thinking he/she is okay with any MR outcome... when reality says otherwise.
As always you have the control, U, as do I. It is a choice.
I've chosen to stand and whatever happens as a result of that is my own doing. Choosing to stand is easy. Doing it is the hardest thing I have ever done.
As always I cant tell you what to do. Just provide another perspective on it
I agree that I don’t think your w is in an affair.
LH19 - Sorry I was not implying that you thought that. I just mention it from time to time in my posts because I know that a quick read of my sitch may lead one to conclude EA/PA is obvious.
Originally Posted by IronWill
I would counter that if you're standing for the M, there would be no deadline. I have none. This takes the time it takes. I didnt want the MR to end, my W effectively ended it because she is in a MLC or depression or WAW mindset or whatever the hell you want to call it.
I did get a few peeks inside my W's mind over the arguments and fights last year. It's why I dont ask anymore, why I removed all pressure (i still screw up from time to time but it's really rare now). It is absolute chaos inside her head right now. I would bet it's like that inside your Ws head too.
IW - I have to say thank you for spurring a lot of introspection on my side.
On the one hand, removing pressure allows our WAS to make decisions on their own. Pressure will almost always push them out the door.
On the other hand, part of DB is about self-differentiation, understanding your own needs, and standing up for yourself (NMMNG). Setting boundaries.
So perhaps the way to view some of these decision is: Am I setting a healthy boundary, or am I unnecessarily adding pressure?
And for this timeline decision... I'm not sure what is the right answer. It feels somewhere in between. The nice thing is that I can make this decision at any time, I do not have a deadline.
I was about to end the post... and then I thought more. It gets complicated. So many thoughts swirling around, I need to let them settle. Pressure, NGS, boundaries, walking my path - things are not so clear sometimes. "I am not willing to go back to the old MR" - did I add pressure, or did I resolve NGS, or am I just walking my path? My W seems to think I am enjoying the S, that this is somehow all my idea -- do I just let that slide, or be vocal that I did not want this but I am going to GAL and have a PMA regardless?
I don't know... I'm stuck here. Will have to think more.
[quote=LH19]So perhaps the way to view some of these decision is: Am I setting a healthy boundary, or am I unnecessarily adding pressure?
Million dollar question for me as well. I feel like the two schools of advice (DB vs. NMMNG) are pulling me in completely opposite directions. I feel like I'm more confused than I was even right after the S, to be honest.
[quote=LH19]So perhaps the way to view some of these decision is: Am I setting a healthy boundary, or am I unnecessarily adding pressure?
Million dollar question for me as well. I feel like the two schools of advice (DB vs. NMMNG) are pulling me in completely opposite directions. I feel like I'm more confused than I was even right after the S, to be honest.
Yep. My brain and emotions have settled down, but the confusion persists.
I am trying to walk that fine line of DB and NMMNG. During our weekly phone logistical chat, W questioned a parenting decision I made last week. The old UC would have caved and just said “you’re right” and that would be that. The new UC stood up for himself, not in a showy or belligerent way. We ended up sort of agreeing to disagree. This felt like a small win for me vs. NGS. I stood up for myself because it felt right and true to my values, not because I was told to stand up for myself.
What to do about MC is very confusing.... A truly reformed NG would probably just do whatever he feels in accordance with his values and react with the cool calmness of Clint Eastwood to everything. That would also be in accordance with DB.
It sounds like a healthy boundary. You’re not asking or telling them to make a change. “You need to stop smoking or you can’t come home.” vs “I won’t live with a smoker.” Similar words, totally different ideas/intents.
I would counter that if you're standing for the M, there would be no deadline. I have none. This takes the time it takes. I didnt want the MR to end, my W effectively ended it because she is in a MLC or depression or WAW mindset or whatever the hell you want to call it.
I did get a few peeks inside my W's mind over the arguments and fights last year. It's why I dont ask anymore, why I removed all pressure (i still screw up from time to time but it's really rare now). It is absolute chaos inside her head right now. I would bet it's like that inside your Ws head too.
IW - I have to say thank you for spurring a lot of introspection on my side.
On the one hand, removing pressure allows our WAS to make decisions on their own. Pressure will almost always push them out the door.
On the other hand, part of DB is about self-differentiation, understanding your own needs, and standing up for yourself (NMMNG). Setting boundaries.
So perhaps the way to view some of these decision is: Am I setting a healthy boundary, or am I unnecessarily adding pressure?
And for this timeline decision... I'm not sure what is the right answer. It feels somewhere in between. The nice thing is that I can make this decision at any time, I do not have a deadline.
I was about to end the post... and then I thought more. It gets complicated. So many thoughts swirling around, I need to let them settle. Pressure, NGS, boundaries, walking my path - things are not so clear sometimes. "I am not willing to go back to the old MR" - did I add pressure, or did I resolve NGS, or am I just walking my path? My W seems to think I am enjoying the S, that this is somehow all my idea -- do I just let that slide, or be vocal that I did not want this but I am going to GAL and have a PMA regardless?
I don't know... I'm stuck here. Will have to think more.
Here are some questions I ask myself before I set a boundary:
1. Is it necessary?
Choosing your battles is a big part of all of our situations. If we go off setting boundaries everywhere and waiting for others to trip them - it's like living in a minefield. And it just sets us up for way more hurt.
2. Am I doing it for the right reasons? Am I sure that I need to set this boundary to protect myself? Or am I doing it to "get back at" or retaliate against my S?
Something LB pointed out to me last week. This is a hard one when I am hurting. The need to defend oneself.
This is where "ego" comes in to play. The ego is enormous in all of us. That's where hurt, pain, and the saying "I can't believe she/he would do this to me" comes into effect. I have struggled mightily with this one. I think all of us do. Realizing we do it is a huge step out of our own worlds and into a different perspective.
3. Am I willing to enforce it? Am I sure that this important enough to risk drastic change?
A boundary is useless if we aren't willing to enforce it. It makes us look ineffective and weak at a time where we need to appear calm, collected and confident in our decision making abilities.
Knowing when to state a boundary is probably the trickiest part of setting one. I have chosen to remove all pressure from W - and she knows she can come talk to me when she is ready.
Requires a lot of patience and humility. It also invites a lot of doubt on my part. But that comes with the decision to stand - so I deal with it as best i can.
There are boundaries and needs. I would like to be working on the MR. I would like to avoid going to MC long-term with no concrete goal in mind.
It is hard for me to tell what is a boundary and what is a need here.
I feel like I'm trying to talk up courage to take a harder stance, but still doubting myself. For the meantime I will continue to go to MC and at least be more assertive about my position - there is really no point going to MC with a "no pressure" attitude because the dynamic shifts very much to one side. I've learned that the hard way in the past.
Originally Posted by IronWill
Here are some questions I ask myself before I set a boundary:
1. Is it necessary?
Choosing your battles is a big part of all of our situations. If we go off setting boundaries everywhere and waiting for others to trip them - it's like living in a minefield. And it just sets us up for way more hurt.
Good question. If and when I do feel like we are not working on the MR in MC, I think it is necessary to avoid wasting my time, money, and emotional energy. That does not mean I have to stop standing for my MR.
Originally Posted by IronWill
2. Am I doing it for the right reasons? Am I sure that I need to set this boundary to protect myself? Or am I doing it to "get back at" or retaliate against my S?
Something LB pointed out to me last week. This is a hard one when I am hurting. The need to defend oneself.
This is where "ego" comes in to play. The ego is enormous in all of us. That's where hurt, pain, and the saying "I can't believe she/he would do this to me" comes into effect. I have struggled mightily with this one. I think all of us do. Realizing we do it is a huge step out of our own worlds and into a different perspective.
I do not feel like it is retaliatory to say "I want to work on the MR in MC". I am meditating a lot and trying to have the proper state of mind to really explore my subconscious motivations. I know we LBS's fool ourselves all the time, so it is possible I do have some anger driving this. Need to reflect more.
Originally Posted by IronWill
3. Am I willing to enforce it? Am I sure that this important enough to risk drastic change?
A boundary is useless if we aren't willing to enforce it. It makes us look ineffective and weak at a time where we need to appear calm, collected and confident in our decision making abilities.
For MC, it would be fairly straightforward to enforce -- stop going. But you are right that I should not set the boundary until I am actually prepared to enforce it. I don't think I am ready today for instance.
Originally Posted by IronWill
4. Is it the right time?
Knowing when to state a boundary is probably the trickiest part of setting one. I have chosen to remove all pressure from W - and she knows she can come talk to me when she is ready.
Requires a lot of patience and humility. It also invites a lot of doubt on my part. But that comes with the decision to stand - so I deal with it as best i can.
EXACTLY. The MC issue timing is tough. Things feel so fluid. We talk a lot about co-parenting. It is both useful and frustrating at the same time - useful for our logistics, frustrating because this is not what I want.
I guess for now I will keep my same approach - I'm going to stop being meek and quiet, I am gong to tell my side of the story in MC, and hope we can start digging through things. I am doubtful, but either way it would be a huge mistake for me to hold back on my feelings at this point.
Whether to continue with MC, stop, etc.... I just don't know. Now is clearly the wrong time to decide.
