Moving Forward

[SteveLW]

A couple of things.

First: "The lawyer also mentioned that when she sees the numbers it may be a bit of a wake up call to her that fantasy land could be over." So let me ask you a question, are you okay with that? Do you want her to stay with you because it is cheaper to stay with you than to leave you? Lots of LBSs have fallen into this trap. That would be a temporary bandage on a gaping wound. If she doesn't stay for the right reason then you are setting yourself up for BD #2.

Second: "It may help her to speak up and initiate a convo." This is manipulation. Wear your ring for you. (I advocate wearing your ring until the D is final because YOU are still married until then.) But don't do it because she may notice and say something. Most WASs see right through that kind of thing.

Third: I know you think there is no EA and PA. However, very few people walkaway from a marriage for any other reason than another person. It is sad to say but I look at your sitch, I've seen this before. I also was told something when my WW was looking at moving out: Women don't need their own place to find themselves or work on the marriage. They need their own place to sleep with other people. Also along these lines, you say she got a job making 4x what she used to make. Can you tell us a little about your career? I assume she is college educated based on her earnings, are you? Is she the breadwinner in the house?

[AnotherStander]

I initiated the conversation. I told her if she wants to do that then no more staying over here and no more family outings.

Good! Now stick to your guns on this! Don't let her cake-eat.

This past Sunday I initiated more conversation as I've just been tired of all of this crap and I felt like she was just stringing me along. I told her that I loved her and have always supported her. I was willing to do counselling or whatever else it would take to work on our marriage.

She said: "I'm just not feeling anything. I thought I would miss you more if I moved out but I've realized I'm happier on my own. I don't feel like putting the effort in and I don't think it will change".

This is why we say not to temp check, because you always get this kind of wishy-washy response from a WAS. That is a reflection of how she feels at this moment in time, and even though she is speaking in absolutes her feelings towards you can and probably will change down the road.

So I brought up the finances and mentioned shed probably be paying about $2,000/month in child support and she got pissed and said: "that's not going to make me love you any more" (manipulative).

Reality checks are usually not welcomed by the WAS. You probably won't get any financial relief voluntarily from her, you will have to pursue it legally.

Any thoughts/advice?

Give her no quarter on this. You've had to hamstring your business to take over her half of the parenting duties. Your income is suffering because of it. Don't compromise on what you are due from her in the hopes that it will placate her (it won't). She's going to HATE paying you ANYTHING whether it's 100 a month or 10,000.

I'm still open to working on our marriage but I also need to move forward with my life as I dont' want to feel like a Plan B. She's given me no indication that she wants to be with me.

She doesn't right now and probably won't for quite some time. Do what you need to do to protect yourself and provide for S. What happens later is unknown, you may very well reconcile but until that happens you've got to get your life in order without her.

[Jac12]

Steve85:

1) No, I don't want her back if it's just because of the money. My thinking is that right now she seems out to lunch and hasn't really been hit with any reality check or sense of loss when it comes to me or our family. I've been very patient with her. I've read many times that eventually the loss hits the WAS and it can get them to actually think of what they are doing.

2) I'm wearing the ring since I feel it's the right thing to do but I do always look for a way to get a response from her and I need to stop that. I find that to be the hardest thing - becoming detached to this woman I married and had a good life with. I want her to know I care about her and am willing to work on our marriage and myself. I think I need to understand that I don't need to show her that anymore. She knows it already. I need to move on and focus on myself and my son.

3) I'm about 50/50 on the PA/EA. I totally understand what you are saying and at times I've been 90% certain that there is someone else involved. But then she moved back in for 2 months and was spending weekends here with me or watching our son. Just didn't seem like there was any time for her to be with someone else. Since she left 3 weeks ago I've come to think that there likely is someone else but I've had no proof of anything. Listen, it wouldn't surprise me at this point. Often I'll just assume that's what she's doing and it allows me to move on a bit easier. Mostly I'm just resentful that she seems to have decided she doesn't want to be an active mom to her son.

I'm a golf pro. I ran a good business making a good living and I've had to cut that in half since April so I could be around full time for my son when he's not in daycare. I'll build it back up but in the meantime I do need her to help out financially. I used to pay ALL of our bills/daycare/groceries and still put some away in investments. She had it pretty easy from that standpoint.

Thanks for your time!

[Jac12]

AS - thanks for taking the time.

I hope you're right but I understand that I need to move forward and protect myself and more importantly my son.

In a way I feel lucky that she doesn't want to spend her time with him. I'd be crushed if I only saw him half the time. She mentioned a few weeks back that she wasn't emotionally ready to look after our son for an extended period of time so he'd stay with me.

She was a great mother before all of this and that makes me think there is some depression/mental disorder of some sorts going on. Losing her father certainly wouldn't help that either.

I'll keep my head up as I need to make sure I'm there for my son. I know in the end no matter what things will be ok.

[Jac12]

Steve85 - sorry, we are both college graduates. I was the breadwinner up until last year when she went back to work and got this job. She went from 50k to 200k. I would float around 75k-80k.

[Jac12]

Guys I'm in need of some advice:

I'm ready to admit to myself that my wife has been having and has had an affair over the past 6 months. I don't have any concrete proof but lots has happened to suggest otherwise. Biggest one being getting her own place.

I've been reading an ebook on women's infidelity and it kind of explains what my wife has been going through. 31 years old - hormonal changes occurring and entering her sexual prime at a time when our marriage is past the honeymoon phase. She's wondering why she's not interested in sex with her husband (honeymoon phase has ended) and is seeking that feeling in general. She probably was feeling this for awhile leading up to her dads brain cancer diagnosis which may have pushed her over the edge and she finally acted on her feelings.

During this time I've been a complete pushover and essentially have enabled this behaviour. She's riding on the high of getting caught, the new experience, and whatever else. She feels confused because she knows Id' be a great life partner but she's feeling more intense feelings during her affair. So she distances herself further from our family to relieve her of the guilt. For now.

Anyways - the author suggests that the only way to have any chance is to confront her and take away the excitement of the affair. Only then will she "maybe" come to her senses and realize the effects of what she's done.

I plan to talk to her about this tonight. Here is a basic script I will say in a non threatening tone:

"W. It's come to my attention that you have had an affair and are currently having an affair. While this certainly upsets me I think it's important for you to know that I don't think this makes you a bad person and I don't think this defines you as a person. I will be able to forgive you if you are willing to be open and discuss this as two mature adults who care about each other. If there is any chance of us deepening our connection and moving forward then we will have to do this together. If we can get through this I will give you my 100% best effort and will not make you feel guilty for your past. "
Then we'll see if she has a response.

Either way I will have to move forward with a separation agreement. I will move forward with that this week and set that boundary. Let her know that yes I'm willing to walk away from this - I'm not afraid of losing her.

Thoughts?

[unchien]

jac12 - I am not an expert on WWs so don't take my advice as strong as what the vets here say:

1. Actions, not words. Ditch the script (or shorten it up). All of the "I will give you my effort, I will be able to forgive you" stuff - drop it. It won't register with her, words will just fly over her head. Wordiness implies weakness at a time you are trying to show strength. It muddies up the message.

"I am proceeding with S agreement because it has come to my attention you are having an A. When you are ready to work on the MR, let me know."

Don't use my words as a script, I'm just giving you an alternative to think about.

2. I also suggest you limit the time you spend trying to understand her behavior (although I know it can be helpful to some degree).

I am in complete agreement about setting hard boundaries.

[sandi2]

I'm ready to admit to myself that my wife has been having and has had an affair over the past 6 months. I don't have any concrete proof but lots has happened to suggest otherwise. Biggest one being getting her own place.

Anyways - the author suggests that the only way to have any chance is to confront her and take away the excitement of the affair. Only then will she "maybe" come to her senses and realize the effects of what she's done.

Jac, you said you have no proof there's been an affair. The two of you are currently living in separate houses, right? Therefore, confronting her about an affair that, at best, is only suspicion.......plus the fact she has already left the marital home, is going to make you look like a nutcase. This is not going to shake her up!

"W. It's come to my attention that you have had an affair and are currently having an affair. What has come to your attention, other than she moved out of the marital home? Do you have intell from some source? While this certainly upsets me I think it's important for you to know that I don't think this makes you a bad person and I don't think this defines you as a person. No, don't say this, b/c it just sounds too much like the nice-guy stuff. I will be able to forgive you if you are willing to be open and discuss this as two mature adults who care about each other. BIG MISTAKE......and it's more nice-guy stuff. If there is any chance of us deepening our connection and moving forward then we will have to do this together. Emotional pressure. You don't get it. She doesn't want you or the MR right now. If we can get through this I will give you my 100% best effort and will not make you feel guilty for your past. She KNOWS you'd take her back, and give it your best effort........but that's not tempting, exciting, or even interesting enough to change her mind. To her, it's not about what you think, feel, do, or say. It's all about her. "

I plan to talk to her about this tonight.

Please don't. Even if she went back home, it would be a matter of time before she left again.

[Jac12]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback.

The evidence is certainly circumstantial but here's a few tidbits:

1) moving out to her own place seems to be a pretty clear indicator
2) spending money on botox, other surgeries, makeup and hair like crazy trying to look younger
3) Her behaviour when this all first started was nuts: out until 3am with the guys every friday for 8 weeks straight. Not answering or responding to my calls/texts asking if she's ok. She has an apple watch so there should be no excuse for not getting my calls. She called back once and said she was at the bar but it was dead silent in the background.
4) Hiding her phone or putting it face down around her.
5) Bra or underwear in her purse
6) One night we were out for Sister in laws bday and she said she needed to go to the bathroom. She took awhile so I went to go see what she was up to (this was the height of crazy time) and she was standing in the middle of the floor texting someone. When I walked up to her she looked guilty of something and kissed me right away (she hadn't initiated a kiss in a month).
7) on her bday she was late to meet me and even when she got there she walked across the street to meet me but I couldn't see her at the corner. It took her like 30 seconds to finally get from the corner to the restaurant when it should take 3 seconds. It just felt like she was wrapping up a text with someone and didn't want me to see.

There are other things too but putting everything together any vets on here would also suggest she's had an affair. So how can I confront her about it so it's no longer a secret? If part of her is worried that she won't be able to move forward with me with all the guilt then it's destined to be final no matter what. What's wrong with her knowing that I don't agree with it but I think we can get past it if she chooses to open up and work on things?

[Jac12]

I'm just trying to get a better understanding of human behaviour and I'm open to the idea that she may not even fully understand why she's doing these things. Humans are complex and I know she's had a lot going on. Didn't Michelle also say that women are more likely to have affairs after losing their fathers? I said something like this to her back in December when we were talking and her response was : "that's interesting, hmmm".

It's possible to work through an affair but part of me does think that a lot of women would think it's just easier to walk away and start fresh even though they may not really want that. The guilt is too much to bear when facing your own family.

I feel stuck. I want to move forward either on my own or with her but I'm tired of being in limbo.