Moving Forward

[AnotherStander]

This is why we say "no R talks". Most LBHs can't handle getting their grapes crushed like this. R talks get you no where and only set you back further.

To other LBSs, use jac's experience as a valuable lesson.

^^^YUP^^^

Steve, I think this outcome was coming right from the very start. She has had no intention of trying to work things out in our marriage. She's a ghost of her former self. She said she wants me in her life, just not romantically.

Jac, everything she is saying to you is "script". Why do we call it that? Because they all say it. It's another reason we say no R talks, because you are just going to get a big earful of script. It is simply a reflection of what she feels at that one moment in time and really doesn't mean anything.

Also, stop with the blaming and accusations. Telling her she's a bad mom who would rather be partying than taking care of her son is not going to make a good impression on her. You know the old saying you can't attract a bee with vinegar? Same with a WAS, yet you're pouring on the vinegar, expecting what? That she'll say "oh wow Jac is right I need to snap out of it and get my life back on track!" No she's thinking "how dare he say such things, HE is why this is happening, HE is the bad guy here, HE is why I feel this way" etc. etc. Right now it's all your fault. So don't add fuel to her fire.

Maybe she would have come around, or still may, but she's not doing any personal growth work on her end or trying to see how she contributed to anything.

Your recent comments are full of this kind of stuff. That's an "expectation" and you need to drop them all. She's not meeting your expectations, well OF COURSE NOT. It's far too soon for her to be having a change of heart. That will take many more months, maybe years.

How can I have any respect for someone who left their child? I really believed there were some mental issues going on but she's not addressing them and really doesn't believe that to be the case. It's just how she feels. Are you suggesting those feelings can actually change?

Have you read Steve's sitch? If so, then you already know the answer to this. If not, spend a few hours reading it.

How do I move forward now as far as our interactions go?

Detach. GAL. All interactions should be 100% business- kid dropoffs and pickups, bills, period. Treat her like you would a client. NO MORE R TALKS EVER PERIOD.

[Jac12]

Steve85- I appreciate your feedback. I know you are correct. But what am I supposed to do about her financial obligations? I risk taking on debt just so she can have her freedom and contribute nothing to the family?

How would you suggest I handle that part?

[Jac12]

AS - I do understand what you're saying and I feel like I've been doing that but I also have to look after my son and make sure we are doing ok financially. If I didn't need her to contribute I'd be ok giving her more space but I've been handling everything on my own for 6 months and I'm near the end of my rope.

I guess I'm not doing as good a job as I thought I was. I see that the scripts are all similar but I'm obviously way too attached still to her behaviour.

I'll read Steve's sitch again.

[Jac12]

So the question is: should I move forward with the S agreement? It's business and I can move on and let her be to sort herself out.

There is obviously a risk of this upsetting her but does this go against DB principles?

[SoTorn]

Listen to Steve Jac. Nothing has changed. Your MR was over. Its still over. No more R talks as it does nothing but show pursuit. When you talk about R it pushes her away further. When you tell her things like she isnt the same person and you show disappointment it just causes her to self justify even more.

Keep working on yourself. Remove all expectations you have of your WW and your MR. Its time for Jac to improve himself. Its time for Jac to do everything he has ever wanted to do. Its time for Jac to step up and take care of his own happiness. That is all you are responsible for. Being a good father and being good to yourself. that is literally all that matters right now.

The more you detach and the more you work on yourself the less you will even care about what she is doing. You will get to a point where you may go file for D because youre done and ready to walk your path and set yourself up for your own happiness.

Its hard yes. It hurts yes. But there will be a time where your emotions are not affected by your WW.

I hurt for a while. I still hurt because I miss the comfort of my family and being with my kids all the time. But I do not hurt, nor miss my EXWW. I decided that I need to love me and my children. Thats it. Thats all that matters. We deserve much better than what our WWs decided. So go get that much better. Its in your hands now.

[SteveLW]

Steve85- I appreciate your feedback. I know you are correct. But what am I supposed to do about her financial obligations? I risk taking on debt just so she can have her freedom and contribute nothing to the family?

How would you suggest I handle that part?

So the question is: should I move forward with the S agreement? It's business and I can move on and let her be to sort herself out.

There is obviously a risk of this upsetting her but does this go against DB principles?

I do not blame any LBS for trying to protect themselves financially and legally. The problem is that a lot of LBS use financial concerns and legalities as an excuse to try to control or manipulate their WAS. "Maybe if I separate finances then she'll wake up!" "Maybe if I present her with a S agreement she'll wake up!"

This almost never works. So yes talk to a lawyer. Yes create a S agreement and get her to agree to it. Yes separate finances so that you are protected financially. But do it for the RIGHT reason, to protect yourself legally and financially. Not as some grand action to get her to wake up and come back to the MR.

Remember jac, most of the time no action is the best action at all. The LBSs that struggle the most are the impulsive ones that have little patience. If you are normally an impatient person, use this opportunity to learn and practice patience.

[SteveLW]

There is obviously a risk of this upsetting her but does this go against DB principles?

What goes against DB principles is worrying about upsetting her or not. You cannot control her reactions and emotions. Stop trying. Do what you need to do. How she reacts is how she reacts. Remember, her actions and words should have zero effect on you emotionally. That is what you are trying to achieve.

[AnotherStander]

AS - I do understand what you're saying and I feel like I've been doing that but I also have to look after my son and make sure we are doing ok financially. If I didn't need her to contribute I'd be ok giving her more space but I've been handling everything on my own for 6 months and I'm near the end of my rope.

Do what you must to protect yourself. If you need to file a formal S or D agreement to get the support you need then do it. But don't have an R talk with her first because she is DONE (for now) and there's no point. Just proceed with the legal side of it and be done with it.

I'll read Steve's sitch again.

If you've read it then you don't have to go back, my point is just that Steve's wife said all the same stuff as yours and now he's reconciled. She spewed script with the best of them. But she still changed her mind later. MANY of them DO change their mind. Will yours? We can't tell you with certainty, and we can't tell you when it will happen if it does. But like many LBS's, you seem to take everything she says as permanent. "Well she said XYZ so it really is over, there's no chance". I hear it around here so much, but the fact is you do not know the future. I've seen marriages come back from situations that seemed virtually impossible, much farther off the deep end than yours.

[SteveLW]

I'll read Steve's sitch again.

If you've read it then you don't have to go back, my point is just that Steve's wife said all the same stuff as yours and now he's reconciled. She spewed script with the best of them. But she still changed her mind later. MANY of them DO change their mind. Will yours? We can't tell you with certainty, and we can't tell you when it will happen if it does. But like many LBS's, you seem to take everything she says as permanent. "Well she said XYZ so it really is over, there's no chance". I hear it around here so much, but the fact is you do not know the future. I've seen marriages come back from situations that seemed virtually impossible, much farther off the deep end than yours.

Listen to AS here. This is good stuff. I should quote this in R2C's quote thread.

jac, here is the thing. WASs/WSs do not like to give up on the "dream" they had. They will not let it go easily. ESPECIALLY VERBALLY.

In my sitch, My W's actions started to change. She was initiating sex....a lot. She start cooking family dinners again. She started making future plans for us as a family. She even started keeping the house much better, which was a common point of contention between us, and she completely stopped doing housework once her EA started.

But if I had asked her early on (and I made this mistake a couple of times if you read my threads), she still would say she wanted to be D'd and on her own. Once that switch flipped in her where she no longer wanted to be married, she didn't want to give that up...and even when her actions started showing she was changing her mind, her words didn't match that.

Jac and other LBSs........words have NO meaning. DO NOT BELIEVE ANYTHING THEY SAY. NOTHING. Negative or positive.

[Jac12]

Ok guys I really appreciate your advice and comments. I consider myself to be a very patient person (friends also say that) but in this situation I'm realizing that I haven't been as patient as I need to be.

I also worry about every little interaction and try to guess what the hell she's thinking. For example, we had that chat Tuesday night and then Wednesday she was super pleasant and cheery - almost as if she doesn't realize the destruction that she's caused up until this point.

I obviously hope that we can reunite although I do not like the person she's been and I fully believe that this isn't the real W.

In order to protect me and our Son I'll have my L send the separation agreement proposal. I'll work hard on doing my own thing and being a great dad. Give her space. Be pleasant and positive during interactions AND I will do my best to let whatever she is saying or doing roll off my back. Validate as needed.

I do believe that deep down she knows something isn't right with her but until she's ready to do some work on her end there is nothing I can do.

I'll be sure to post here as needed, especially if I'm faced with an issue that I'm not sure how to handle.

Mentally - it helps me to just think of her as somebody else right now. I wouldn't really care what they were up to but I'd be pleasant during interactions.