Awaiting Actions (LB55 #5)

[LB55]

A new thread to keep on trucking through this crap.

Quick recap:

I was deployed for a year, W filed for D in December 2018, finally got temp orders in early april 2019, nothing has happened to progress this D in any way since then.
Working on my communication skills, being the best dad I can be, and letting go of my W.

Waiting on W to move forward with D or start showing some actions that show she is willing to work on improving our communications(the first step in my opinion to anything that could lead to eventual R). To date there is little but words of blame and fault; and the only action is to point fingers at everyone else for her problems.

Old Thread

[LB55]

I am supposed to go to the house on Sunday and start going through our items and separating them/moving my items back to my new place(this was ordered by the court in April and we agreed we would work out the schedule to do it). She has cancelled this a few times in the past; always due to 'my behavior' and so forth. I've not said or done anything that in my opinion was out of line. She has her feelings and that is fine. We have only had electronic communication for a while now at her request, and I am hesitant to start phone or in person communication again because I haven't seen anything change in her written communication. From the middle of a lengthy email exchange where I asked to get my stuff from the house again:

W: Quite frankly I am afraid to be in the same house as you. I am going to have my parents come over and supervise.
H: I hear that you are afraid to be in the same house. I am not sure I am comfortable with that either, so this is good news. Sounds like a good plan.
W: Saying "I am glad that you are still afraid of me" is clearly threatening and intimidating me and I will tell my lawyer.

I replied that twisting of words has been a constant issue in our marriage, and I need to see less of that going forward. Basically got back that 'you can't tell me what to do'.

Not the words nor actions of someone that wants to work on communication.

Now she wants to have a phone call to discuss Sunday because clearly we aren't communicating well via email. This is likely how she will determine that 'it wont work because of your recent behavior' and cancel on me again. She won't discuss a settlement until the household goods are dealt with. I don't really want to go back to court and force her to leave the home while I do this because it is worth more less than the cost of the attorneys. The stalling really annoys me; I read a lot about dealing with difficult people and that lead me to narcissistic women in divorce...says that they always stall like this, keeps them in control, blame others, hide behind the court and the lawyers(this one rings very true to me) in order to avoid being responsible for anything. (It wasn't her choice to file for divorce, i made her do it; it wasn't her choice to restrain me, the judge did it; its not her choice that I only see the kids 4 days a month, the judge did it; we should just follow the court orders, unless its not convenient for her, etc) Then when the court makes a decision (for or against) they have someone to point a finger at so there is no responsibility. Lots of other stuff too, that just stood out to me at my current moment.

Normally if I was going to have a phone conference about something I would ask for an agenda to make sure I'm prepared to discuss the items that needs to be addressed. Should I ask her for an agenda for her desired phone call? I don't want to be unprepared so she can steamroll me, yet I don't want to appear to be needy and controlling either. Which is the right approach in the opinion of the group?

[Ready2Change]

W: Quite frankly I am afraid to be in the same house as you. I am going to have my parents come over and supervise.
H: I hear that you are afraid to be in the same house. I am not sure I am comfortable with that either, so this is good news. Sounds like a good idea.

And maybe H" I want us both to feel safe."


W: Saying "I am glad that you are still afraid of me" is clearly threatening and intimidating me and I will tell my lawyer.
H:"Feel free to share this email string with your lawyer."

Normally if I was going to have a phone conference about something I would ask for an agenda to make sure I'm prepared to discuss the items that needs to be addressed. Should I ask her for an agenda for her desired phone call? I don't want to be unprepared so she can steamroll me, yet I don't want to appear to be needy and controlling either. Which is the right approach in the opinion of the group?

I do not trust your W. Remember getting off the plane to meet her. She is evil. Get a time set. Bring some witnesses.

Record with your phone if needed.

H:"I have been thinking about what you recommended the other day and I think it is a good idea that we have a couple people making sure things go as quickly and smoothly as possible. I will be bringing my sister (or other non-threatening female)"

[LB55]

W: Quite frankly I am afraid to be in the same house as you. I am going to have my parents come over and supervise.
H: I hear that you are afraid to be in the same house. I am not sure I am comfortable with that either, so this is good news. Sounds like a good idea.

And maybe H" I want us both to feel safe."


W: Saying "I am glad that you are still afraid of me" is clearly threatening and intimidating me and I will tell my lawyer.
H:"Feel free to share this email string with your lawyer."

Normally if I was going to have a phone conference about something I would ask for an agenda to make sure I'm prepared to discuss the items that needs to be addressed. Should I ask her for an agenda for her desired phone call? I don't want to be unprepared so she can steamroll me, yet I don't want to appear to be needy and controlling either. Which is the right approach in the opinion of the group?

I do not trust your W. Remember getting off the plane to meet her. She is evil. Get a time set. Bring some witnesses.

Record with your phone if needed.

H:"I have been thinking about what you recommended the other day and I think it is a good idea that we have a couple people making sure things go as quickly and smoothly as possible. I will be bringing my sister (or other non-threatening female)"

Thanks, I still need to work on being more concise and to the point.

I don't trust her either brother. I plan to use my phone to be a witness. I am betting she won't have her parents over as she was just trying to get in an argument about it when I just agreed it was good news that they were coming over she didn't know what to do with it. Doesn't make a difference either way to me. I will have my phone well charged.

I suspect she wants to discuss the kids being there for us going through things, which I have already set a firm boundary of they will not be there as it isn't good for the kids to see. She doesn't see it that way and thinks they will be fine watching and helping us divide our stuff. I intend to get a time, find out who will be there, and how long we are going to do it for. I am prepped to leave anytime something starts to get contentious.

[unchien]

LB55 - I know validation is the standard advice but I would consider making it clear you do not feel like you are unsafe or your W has anything to fear.

You know about my sitch from a few weeks back (and helped me a ton!) My new general rule is validate unless it is something possibly legally problematic in which case I don’t validate.

W: I am worried about your safety around the kids.
Old me: I hear you feel I am unsafe, and that worries you.
New me: I do not believe I am an unsafe parent.

I think same goes for your W’s fears. Of course be cool and calm but... at the time I was also thinking about recording conversations etc and thought “why am I validating this stuff and then gathering evidence it is not true... seems easier to just not agree with it calmly.” It’s worked for me so far and I’m a lot less worried.

[MLCxH]

I am inclined to agree with unichen here. Validation is a good tool when you are trying to R. In your case your WAS is a long way away from R. If I were you I would be wary of her using your words against you and portraying them as something different from what you meant by taking them out of context given your WAS's history

[LB55]

U and MLC, I totally agree. She is a long way from R and I’m very wary of her intentions.
She wanted to talk on the phone tonight. She never called. I’m not sweating it. I’m sure it will be my fault.

Haha. Cool. I’ve been blamed for everything under the sun anyway.

Validation of her feelings is just that...her feelings. Not mine. She feels how she feels. Keeping comms in writing helps to keep her honest.

[IronWill]

I agree with unchien and ML.

If its legally problematic - validation can come back and bite you in the ass. Validate as much as you can - but keep your boundaries in place and watch your [censored] especially if Ls are involved.

I would also find a way to say that you will be keeping communications the way they are. You dont have to call her anyway - that's something she wants, not you.

My W does not communicate verbally save for a few words per week, even though we are still IHS. Text/email only.

In a way it is good because I can edit what I'm going to say before I send it. I have reduced the clutter of my words, often writing out a whole thing then chopping away at it until its concise, straightforward and businesslike.

I feel for ya, brother. This is a weird place we are all in.

[LB55]

So just had a 2 hour phone call with W. She mostly vented a bunch about all the stuff I’ve written about before. Nothing changed there, just listened and validated her feelings.

She did talk about herself and some changes she has made regarding eliminating negative people, doing things she wants and taking care of herself first. All stuff you’d read in most any self help book out there. She talked about our communication issues and a desire to improve how we talk to each other. A lot of what she said are things I’ve been working on for myself too. She claims she is fully healed and ready to move forward in life. I’m skeptical to say the least. I’ve seen very little action from her outside of playing the victim and just generally being rude towards me. All in all a productive conversation, she did agree I can ask for more 3 day weekends to spend with the kids and that I can have Labor Day weekend with them too. She expressed desires to restore her relationship with my sister too, how much she misses her but doesn’t think it can happen. I just validated and left the door open; I’ll talk with my sister and see if she is amenable to that. I did tell W that we need to make a lot more progress in trusting each other before I can endorse her having any relations with my family.

The initial point of the conversation was to discuss getting my things from the house, initially we were going to do it together, now she wants to not be there but have her dad there to supervise me going through stuff. I told her I’d have to think about it. On one hand it’s an opportunity to get it done(there is nothing there is really ‘need’ right now), on the other hand she is trying to remove her responsibility in getting it done and I feel like I should hold her feet to the fire.

Additionally, she told me she would like to start having a weekly dinner as a family. I would really like that as well. I told her as such. No need to hold my hand close to the vest on that one. I’ve wanted that for a long time.

This is the big ticket item though...she asked me what my goal going forward is in regard to her and I. Where I see it going. I told her I need time to think about it and will resume the topic at a later time. She was ok with that. Her words say she wants a divorce still. Her actions say she is unsure what she wants. My ultimate goal would be to R with her and restore our family under a new and improved marriage. That will likely overwhelm her though so I’m not sure what to say. I did tell her a short term goal is continued communication improvement. Might be a bit vague but she agreed to work on receiving things better and I agreed to the same. Small manageable chunks is what I can do. I want her to know my goal is to iron things out and work on a new romantic relationship with her. She even laughed at a joke today and said she missed my humor...I told her I missed her laughing too...it was nice. Small steps.

Tomorrow she might be back to cold calculating WW but for today she was a bit better. The conversation ended well and I got off the phone before it could go off the rails.

Do I tell her my goal for the relationship? She likely already knows I’d prefer to get back together. Don’t want to state something she already knows but don’t want to be unclear on my intentions either. I think I’m gonna go visit my work bud and see what he thinks. He’s never met my W. He’s been through this divorce process twice and has some good perspective to keep me from doing dumb things.

Lastly I appreciate all of your thoughts and advice. Thank you!

[unchien]

LB. - sorry to make this short but I won’t have time to respond more until Tuesday.

I don’t think it’s necessarily wrong to state what you want if asked point blank. Don’t assume she knows. Also don’t beg and plead or be overly wordy. “My goal is to build a new marriage with you if that is possible.” I don’t know... maybe others would disagree. If you can be cool and confident and handle any reaction... isn’t that the point where the training wheels can start to come off?

I might be wrong here though. Not sure about the above but it’s how I start to view things in my personal sitch as well. All along I thought my W knew what I wanted and at BD time she thought I wanted a D. She really did.

Maybe it’s common for us to get comfortable after awhile and start thinking we can go against DB protocol. Hope the vets can help here.