Awaiting Actions (LB55 #5)

[LB55]

Yeah email is not easy. My W is solely text message- nothing verbal at all. I have to re-read everything I write, trying to hear it in whatever tone she is assigning to it (which is practically impossible).

You cant go wrong with saying you want improved communications. that's my main goal as well.

She says im too direct and demanding via email and she doesn't respond well to it. She uses email to make demands as well, its much easier to hide behind a computer screen for those unreasonable things. Speaking in person is an easy change for me because I've wanted to do that since the beginning. She didn't, and I didn't push the issue. She knew how I felt but is warming to the idea.

When we speak in person we are much more reasonable and for me anyway, im able to hear her much better without forming my own opinions on her statements. I'm hopeful that we can keep this going, it is healthy either way for us to be able to communicate.

The bold part reminds me of the movie heartbreak ridge when Clint Eastwood keeps coming out in a different colored t-shirt each day and the platoon can't figure out how to match him in order to not have to run.

[LB55]

Isn't it strange when the "nice" person we once knew makes a reappearance? Maybe your distance has begun to take effect a little bit, or maybe it's just a cameo appearance. These things are definitely not easy.

Someone told me once - way before any of this [censored] went down - that "they'll never learn to miss you until they go away". That person had been talking about teenagers going away to college, but I think it applies here too.

At any rate - my advice would be to take it very slow, and remember you've got the control here.

It's very tough for me to evaluate this. She didn't leave exactly, I was deployed and restrained from returning home. This isn't a normal situation of one spouse moving out and then realizing that home is better than some crappy apt. I'm the one in the crappy apt and she has the nice home. Nothing has changed for her outside of 'her problems have left the house'. It's something I struggle with daily; is it possible to miss me when life I so comfortable right now??

I'm definitely taking it slow. Its been almost 8 months since she filed for D. We haven't even split up our household items yet. I've thought about pushing the timeline and forcing her hand. I think she needs to feel in control even if she isn't. I don't know if that is the right answer, but forcing her hand with other things hasn't worked yet so I'm not doing it anymore. It just leads to both of us being stressed out and angry.

[IronWill]

When we speak in person we are much more reasonable and for me anyway, im able to hear her much better without forming my own opinions on her statements. I'm hopeful that we can keep this going, it is healthy either way for us to be able to communicate.

The bold part reminds me of the movie heartbreak ridge when Clint Eastwood keeps coming out in a different colored t-shirt each day and the platoon can't figure out how to match him in order to not have to run.

Oh definitely, I agree. One of my goals is to try and reestablish verbal communication (Yes that's how bad it is right now).
I have difficulty reading the context of a message on a good day. She has completely withdrawn into the internet world, and has assigned me the role of "bad person". It is so bizarre, so alien, so completely against her character from the first 18 yrs I knew her.

In order to have any sort of communication I have had to completely alter the way I respond. Out of curiosity...Did you have any success with electronic comms? Anything would help.

It's very tough for me to evaluate this. She didn't leave exactly, I was deployed and restrained from returning home. This isn't a normal situation of one spouse moving out and then realizing that home is better than some crappy apt. I'm the one in the crappy apt and she has the nice home. Nothing has changed for her outside of 'her problems have left the house'. It's something I struggle with daily; is it possible to miss me when life I so comfortable right now??

I'm definitely taking it slow. Its been almost 8 months since she filed for D. We haven't even split up our household items yet. I've thought about pushing the timeline and forcing her hand. I think she needs to feel in control even if she isn't. I don't know if that is the right answer, but forcing her hand with other things hasn't worked yet so I'm not doing it anymore. It just leads to both of us being stressed out and angry.

Yeah that really [censored], man. I can't relate bc I was single when I was deployed, but it was so nice to finally get home and have a place to go to after 7 months. I'm so sorry you had to go through that.

I'm in a weird position too - we are still in the same house but she has shut down. The house is no longer a safe space. My GAL has helped but sometimes you just want to veg in your own space. The loss of comfort there is a big one - and it's such a small house that detachment and space are hard to give unless I spend all day away. I have done it - ive made it so that we are ships passing occasionally by reverting to my Navy kind of living from 2 decades ago but it's not easy.

As far as pushing timelines- on my end that has failed miserably. So I've also stopped, same as you. I'm currently reevaluating how to.proceed with this. Having 2 separate plans for 2 separate outcomes and trying to align them without going batshit crazy lol.

[AnotherStander]

W: Quite frankly I am afraid to be in the same house as you. I am going to have my parents come over and supervise.
H: I hear that you are afraid to be in the same house. I am not sure I am comfortable with that either, so this is good news. Sounds like a good plan.
W: Saying "I am glad that you are still afraid of me" is clearly threatening and intimidating me and I will tell my lawyer.

Hey LB, I just wanted to repost the above as a reminder that you need to keep your guard WAY up with her. This was only 4 days ago, and now you're talking about having a relationship talk and telling her your goal is to recon and you're getting excited about touches on the shoulder? Read the above again, I try not to call people crazy, but all of her behavior throughout your time here has really made me feel like she has some serious mental issues. She flips back and forth from being extremely mean and vindictive to being polite and accommodating. Hell the whole BD never really made any sense for that matter. At a minimum you can't trust her, but deeper than that I think you should be a little afraid of her. Why do I say that? Because when you are afraid of someone you stay on high alert and you take precautions around them, such as having a 3rd party around whenever you are around each other. Just be very careful what you say to her, both in email and in person. Always be mindful of how she might twist it to use against you. I would communicate with her as little as humanly possible until the legal side of this is resolved. I know it's tempting when she throws you a bone, but right now the most important thing is to protect yourself.

[LB55]

When we speak in person we are much more reasonable and for me anyway, im able to hear her much better without forming my own opinions on her statements. I'm hopeful that we can keep this going, it is healthy either way for us to be able to communicate.

The bold part reminds me of the movie heartbreak ridge when Clint Eastwood keeps coming out in a different colored t-shirt each day and the platoon can't figure out how to match him in order to not have to run.

Oh definitely, I agree. One of my goals is to try and reestablish verbal communication (Yes that's how bad it is right now).
I have difficulty reading the context of a message on a good day. She has completely withdrawn into the internet world, and has assigned me the role of "bad person". It is so bizarre, so alien, so completely against her character from the first 18 yrs I knew her.

In order to have any sort of communication I have had to completely alter the way I respond. Out of curiosity...Did you have any success with electronic comms? Anything would help.

I have had middling success in electronic communications. As long as she is still angry I don't think they can be successful but when they are angry everything will be misinterpreted and turned around to fit the narrative. I had a successful email yesterday strictly about business and days needing to change for me having the kids based on work. I backed it up with a phone call later in the evening to make sure we were on the same page. You've said that isn't possible right now; keep it in your toolbox of ideas for later. Similar for text message, although we don't text too much. Its mostly about business too, although she has occasionally opened up about past hurts via text; this was tough for me because I really wanted to hide behind the text and shoot hurtful things back instead of listening and hearing what she has to say.

It's very tough for me to evaluate this. She didn't leave exactly, I was deployed and restrained from returning home. This isn't a normal situation of one spouse moving out and then realizing that home is better than some crappy apt. I'm the one in the crappy apt and she has the nice home. Nothing has changed for her outside of 'her problems have left the house'. It's something I struggle with daily; is it possible to miss me when life I so comfortable right now??

I'm definitely taking it slow. Its been almost 8 months since she filed for D. We haven't even split up our household items yet. I've thought about pushing the timeline and forcing her hand. I think she needs to feel in control even if she isn't. I don't know if that is the right answer, but forcing her hand with other things hasn't worked yet so I'm not doing it anymore. It just leads to both of us being stressed out and angry.

Yeah that really [censored], man. I can't relate bc I was single when I was deployed, but it was so nice to finally get home and have a place to go to after 7 months. I'm so sorry you had to go through that.

I'm in a weird position too - we are still in the same house but she has shut down. The house is no longer a safe space. My GAL has helped but sometimes you just want to veg in your own space. The loss of comfort there is a big one - and it's such a small house that detachment and space are hard to give unless I spend all day away. I have done it - ive made it so that we are ships passing occasionally by reverting to my Navy kind of living from 2 decades ago but it's not easy.

As far as pushing timelines- on my end that has failed miserably. So I've also stopped, same as you. I'm currently reevaluating how to.proceed with this. Having 2 separate plans for 2 separate outcomes and trying to align them without going batshit crazy lol.

It does stink, but its just the way it is. If we are separated we want to be in the same house because it might work better; if we are IHS, we want our own place. Grass is always greener.

I'm sorry she has shut down on you, that must be really tough to deal with on a daily basis. I totally understand reverting to living on the ship...13 years of sea duty...I lived on the ship for the whole year I was gone...man that gets tough. Why do you allow her to make you uncomfortable in your own home? If you think back to your ship time...if your peer walked into the berthing lounge and told you to get up so they could take your seat on the couch, would you have done that? Set up shop and relax how you want to. If she doesn't like it she can go somewhere else.

Yeah the pushing timelines really didn't work at all. She would really dig in her heels everytime i tried. I used to have 7 different plans for 18 different options and try to plan out how everything would work depending on which scenario played out. Makes me super prepared for anything. Also makes me one controlling SOB. I've stopped this behavior of trying to plan for multiple outcomes for the most part. Live in the moment more. Its helping me to let go of the outcomes a little bit.

[LB55]

Hey LB, I just wanted to repost the above as a reminder that you need to keep your guard WAY up with her. This was only 4 days ago, and now you're talking about having a relationship talk and telling her your goal is to recon and you're getting excited about touches on the shoulder? Read the above again, I try not to call people crazy, but all of her behavior throughout your time here has really made me feel like she has some serious mental issues. She flips back and forth from being extremely mean and vindictive to being polite and accommodating. Hell the whole BD never really made any sense for that matter. At a minimum you can't trust her, but deeper than that I think you should be a little afraid of her. Why do I say that? Because when you are afraid of someone you stay on high alert and you take precautions around them, such as having a 3rd party around whenever you are around each other. Just be very careful what you say to her, both in email and in person. Always be mindful of how she might twist it to use against you. I would communicate with her as little as humanly possible until the legal side of this is resolved. I know it's tempting when she throws you a bone, but right now the most important thing is to protect yourself.

Thanks AS; I hear your concern for how it is going. The crazy up and down nature of this does not lead me to believe anything is better or starting jumping into any sort of R scenario. I can see a path to R and one to D. Either is ok, R is what i'd want. I am being very wary of things and my guard is way up. It may not reflect in my writings, but I look out for myself as best as I know how. You will know I've let my guard down when I stop posting here about things that have happened. Mostly I just use this as a way to document things that happen, feelings I have, provide some encouragement when i can, and to get feedback. That was what I did with the shoulder comment...just documenting that it was weird and it happened. Please don't read that as me getting excited; definitely not how I meant to convey that.

As far as the legal side of things, we may eventually wind up D, we may not, but I'm not going to push it through for her. It's not what i want and she knows that. I'm just saving money right now by not doing things, and my L has all the pertinent info if W decides to start pushing an aggressive settlement or threatening to go to court if I don't agree. I use my phone to record things and I follow up phone call agreements with an electronic message to document that she agrees with what we talked about.

Posting things here prevents me from being dumb 99% of the time. It helps to just write it out and whether anyone else replies or not I go back and read it a day or two later to provide myself a perspective to try and maintain an even keel. If i was flying high two days ago and now I'm sinking, it helps me realize that the ebb and flow is normal and they will get better again; vice versa applies too. It gets me thinking about how she could view things I think and that is a good thing.

She doesn't have my trust in any way, I keep looking for traps. Its a tough way to live and I am trying to be safe while giving her some benefit of the doubt as communications improve just a bit. Trust is a two way street and for her to start to trust me I must start to trust her as well. I can start the trust cycle even while being wary. A long ways to go in this marathon though.

[unchien]

My thoughts on communications:

- Assume any and all comms are being documented. Especially anything in writing (text, e-mail, letters). Calls may be recorded for quality assurance purposes =)
- Assume anything you say will be twisted and distorted. Do not get upset or triggered by this. You have no control over it.
- Text message is the single worst form of communication. Any type of communication that requires a back-and-forth exchange should be done over e-mail or voice.

I also think it is wise to keep a journal. Facts only. Dates, times, events, what was said, what was done. Unfortunately I am guilty of dropping the ball on this myself the last few weeks. I need to get back on it.

When I feel like communicating something to my wife via text or e-mail:

- STOP. Don't take the bait. Don't let the trigger start a chain reaction.
- Understand that I tend to be overly wordy, give explanations, justify, defend, etc.
- Think about what the vets at DB forums would say.
- Think about what is true to my own values.
- Breathe.
- Calm down.
- Wait an arbitrary amount of time.
- NOW... craft a response.
- Take that response, and cut out 90% of the words. Remove anything that involves reasoning, logic, explaining, etc.
- Re-read response, loop back to step #2 above. Repeat loop 3 times.
- Add a simple "Hi W" to make it sound more friendly.
- Hit SEND.

Our MC had some good points about why text communication is so awful:

- On the screen it looks like a back-and-forth conversation. In reality, often both parties are typing furiously responding to something said 3 texts prior.
- No ability to read facial expressions or gestures.
- No ability to hear inflection of voice or tone.
- Mind-reading takes over.
- There tends to be no conversation, it often becomes 2 parties spouting their POV into an empty void and the other party not listening.

Think about listening and validating... it works because you maintain eye contact, have a calm demeanor, etc. None of those things are possible over text. So easy to assume the worst about the other person.

[LB55]

So I went to the house last night to collect some things we agreed upon, skis, fishing equipment, some more camping stuff, boat items(ropes, bumpers, etc). Mission accomplished, I got what I came for.

No talk about anything other than separation of stuff and I said thanks and goodnight and left.

I noted that she had a box of pictures in the basement that were all pictures of us. So at least they haven't been destroyed. Thought it was quite odd that two of them were wrapped in Christmas wrapping paper with my name on them. I know one is our wedding picture and one is a charcoal sketch we had done of the two of us in Victoria in 2004(both are easily identified by the shape and size of the frame). She either was or is planning to give them to me as a gift for Christmas. I'm actually laughing at the absurdity of that right now! What a joke. Everything they do is just crazy.

Going fishing next week with my parents and my kids. Should be an enjoyable week out at the ocean; hopeful for a nice time and a full freezer!

[Ready2Change]

Mission accomplished,

glad to hear.

Going fishing next week with my parents and my kids. Should be an enjoyable week out at the ocean; hopeful for a nice time and a full freezer!

I am jealous...Catch and eat one for me!

[LB55]

Quick update since its been a few weeks.(I told AS a while back that when I stop posting is when there are problems)

Fishing trip wasn't so successful, only got 2 fish, but the kids and I had a good time. Kids are with my family this week and having a nice time going to the fair and the waterslides.

No progress on the situation with W. I did have a conversation with my L briefly where she wanted to put pressure on W to get moving by doing a bunch of work(read: I need to bill some hours) and I said no I would like any proposals for settlement to come from W and her attorney. This is her choice to D and she can do the work and pay the bills. I'm not convinced that W is willing to push this through. I'm still willing to work on the MR with W but not until I see some legit actions on her part that show me that she is too. She is nowhere close right now. My will to work on things is fading a bit each day though. I look forward to the future more each day as well.