Divorce/WAW due to my infidelity Part 2

[unchien]

I went a step further than I probably should have by saying (for the first time) that all her anxiety, pressure, etc., are caused by her, that she can stop this at any time - I'm the one who is in the back seat just along for the ride

Yep, an overstep. I wouldn't beat yourself up, you can do no right anyhow at this stage.

I texted her a short note later (right after the session I went to a 1:1 lesson with a sort of meditation professor - part of GAL and really fun) to say that I was sorry for some of the words I used, that they were unproductive.

... and she roped you right into the text exchange... You tried to be the bigger person, unfortunately, again, you can do no right.

Anyway, she's hoping that our next mediation session (next week) is the last. I'm doubtful given that there are some relatively big outstanding items. She is acting desperate to have the D finalized which is weird to me since I don't see what the gain is. Don't get me wrong, I'm looking forward to being done with this, too, but a month isn't a big deal, especially considering that she's moving out. Any thoughts?

I would focus more on the outstanding items and what you would like as an outcome. If that takes 1, 2, 10 sessions, that's what it takes. Ignore her timeline.

She's making a bunch of noise and trying to get you to fall into line. You don't have to fall into line, nor do you have to dig in your heels -- do what is in accordance with your values.

[Ready2Change]

[quote=crdcheck]
W "I don't care about your words. I care about your willingness to compromise which I don't see"
Me: "I'm sorry that you feel that way. I know that I am compromising on a lot and being deliberate about where I choose to maintain my position"
W: "I don't see where you've compromised. And I haven't held my position on a single thing."
Me: "We have very different perspectives on this. Just so I make sure I heard you correctly, you feel as if you have compromised on every issue and I have compromised on no issues. Is that right?, I'm clear, are you saying that you don't see a single place I've compromised since beginning mediation?"
W: "You aren't home are you?"
Me: "No"
[END: I was out with a couple of friends for drinks and then dinner]

I was going to post the same thing. Filter yourself. It is all about listening skills right now.




It is amazing to me that those text message could have been written by my X. Exact same type of communication style. Things are better after 10 years, but....




My latest:
X:"I've switched jobs and have the opportunity to add the kids to my health and dental plan at your expense. Your monthly expense would be BLA BLA.. this would be effective sept 1. Do you want me to sign them up under my plan?? I NEED TO KNOW BY TOMORROW MORNING."
ME:(6 hours later..I was packing for this trip):"When you don't share the details it is hard to compare to the current plan...don't sign them up"
X:"Fine - what other details do you need? Also, DO THEY HAVE DENTAL INSURANCE?? Both I and orthodontist have been ask this for the past year without an answer..."
Me:"I sent you a copy of the medical card on July 10 2018. They do have dental coverage...As I have told you before, ortho is not covered by the plan...."
ME:"sent you an email" [the email had attachments to over view of what was covered by my plans. I asked her to send me copies of her plan overview so we both could review] (Crickets from her)

I ran through the same exercise when I was getting the new plans setup with my employer. I asked for copies of her current plan and she responds "It is not very good" no details.



I guess my point is that communication is always hard, people get confused. Even worse when emotions are involved. Learn as many communication skills right now with W. You drive the change in communication style. You help reduce the confusion. You listen to understand. You take time to think about what the other person said.

I am not saying you agree to anything. You just let her know that you heard her.

W:"Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla"
H:"If I understand correctly. you feel angry about BLA BLA BLA?
W:"NO.>>Bla bla bla bla bla"
H:"Ah that helps. thanks for clarifying"
W:"Well, what are you going to do???"
H:"I need time to think about what you said. I will let you when I decide"
W:"Bla bla bla answer right now bla bla you never bla bla bla controling bla bla"
H:"I am sorry you feel that way"

[crdcheck]

I hear you both and it's consistent with the books, other threads, etc., so I know that you are right. It's a struggle for me because it feels so much like a broken record (and it annoys W) when I say "I'm sorry you feel that way". Maybe it's just me holding out for some ridiculous hope that I can get her to see that, bad as the things I did are, as much damage as I caused, I'm not a demon. It feels like, the more I've pulled away, the more she has, too, and I don't see how that ultimately brings us back together.

For example, I emailed her yesterday morning during our usual "activities exchange" (where one of us, usually me, sends an email outlining when we will be busy so we can plan out D3's days) and said that I would be out yesterday evening but that I would stop home first to feed/walk the dog (D3 is w/ ILs so no burden on W with my leaving) and she was upset that I hadn't told her and that she had planned to go through the kitchen cabinets/drawers with me. I told her that I was telling her right then and she could propose a time to go through the kitchen together (she proposed tonight). I have no regrets - I went to tour a house and then ate dinner with my brother and his family while W ate home alone. What gives me heartburn is that I know that this feeds into her negative narrative about me. On the other hand, if I had apologized and/or done the kitchen thing with her would I/we/D3 be in a better position? Would W think better of me? (No)

One other question/thought I have. I understand not pursuing her, even implicitly, but I feel like there may be value in my sharing my perspective at appropriate times. For example, when she's blaming me for her anxiety, not moving forward with the divorce fast enough, etc., it seems like it could be a reasonable time to say that this is her choice just as the cheating was my choice. Sure, I was unhappy and alone, W hadn't been intimate with me in any way in 3-4 months and, even after we were again, I would have to practically beg, but that does not in any way justify my decision to cheat, period. And as far as I'm concerned, the D is the same - it's her choice, it presents great risk to everyone, and my proposition was not to maintain the status quo but to try a different approach (different MC, etc.), trial separation, anything but D and she completely rejected it, no consideration whatsoever. I had a choice and made a bad one, that's on me. She's making a choice and I feel that she should be aware if for no other reason than, in six months (or whenever) she can't say "well, we both wanted this." I mean, I'm having fun, multiple trips pre-planned, taking new classes, getting 50/50 time w/ D3 (and I can spend it as I see fit - no more negotiating) - it would be easy to look at me and say that I'm happy about all of this. I want her to know that this is all her choice.

Finally, and I think that I know the answer to this, but I haven't been intimate with her (or anyone) since at least a week before she announced the D (early May). Part of me looks at her pulling away as quickly as possible (no ring, think she changed her name in her work email signature, not including me in family trip to IL) and says "hey, it's been months, I have needs, I should date someone" and another part says that it would not be a nail in the coffin but a sledgehammer in the stake and I should hold off until Sept...Oct... Nov... whenever the paperwork is signed by the judge. Thoughts?

[crdcheck]

It is amazing to me that those text message could have been written by my X. Exact same type of communication style. Things are better after 10 years, but....

Good to know that I'm not blazing a new path. Too bad that I have this to look forward to for the rest of my life (or at least D3's childhood).

My latest:
X:"I've switched jobs and have the opportunity to add the kids to my health and dental plan at your expense. Your monthly expense would be BLA BLA.. this would be effective sept 1. Do you want me to sign them up under my plan?? I NEED TO KNOW BY TOMORROW MORNING."
ME:(6 hours later..I was packing for this trip):"When you don't share the details it is hard to compare to the current plan...don't sign them up"
...

Yep, this resonates. Wonder how they don't see how s****y they are being.

I guess my point is that communication is always hard, people get confused. Even worse when emotions are involved. Learn as many communication skills right now with W. You drive the change in communication style. You help reduce the confusion. You listen to understand. You take time to think about what the other person said.

Do you have any specific sources (e.g. books, websites) I should look at for this? I get the basics but they feel repetitive, like I'm turning into a robot.

I am not saying you agree to anything. You just let her know that you heard her.

W:"Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla"
H:"If I understand correctly. you feel angry about BLA BLA BLA?
W:"NO.>>Bla bla bla bla bla"
H:"Ah that helps. thanks for clarifying"
W:"Well, what are you going to do???"
H:"I need time to think about what you said. I will let you when I decide"
W:"Bla bla bla answer right now bla bla you never bla bla bla controling bla bla"
H:"I am sorry you feel that way"

This made me laugh out loud - you hit it exactly. I am doing a better (but still have a ways to go) job of not deciding things on the spot, taking time to digest, make deliberate decisions, choose how to respond later etc., but as long as I don't agree with W I'm the a**hole. I wish that my being the bigger person would wear down the wall she has between us but I don't have high hopes and the a**hole in me (he's there, I know it) wants to push her buttons sometimes. Like, you are making me feel bad and don't care (has said so explicitly) so turn about is fair play. I know that it's wrong and I try to keep that part of me in check but I'd be lying if I said that I wasn't thinking about it.

[Ready2Change]

but as long as I don't agree with W I'm the a**hole.

I already have that nickname..you need to have your W pick a different one...


Everytime she called me that in an email, She became sweetheart..

[crdcheck]

but as long as I don't agree with W I'm the a**hole.

I already have that nickname..you need to have your W pick a different one...


Everytime she called me that in an email, She became sweetheart..

Ha! Actually, we don't do any name-calling. In fact, there really isn't any overt anger (no yelling, swearing, etc.) at all. Maybe I shouldn't have said "a**hole" since it's actually "narcissistic selfish jerk who only thinks and cares about himself". But she really doesn't say that, she just says that I don't compromise at all which would be the behavior associated with... well, both the "narcissistic selfish..." and "a**holes" haha.

In a way, it feels worse - like, we're so fine with each other that it doesn't feel like we're about to fall apart, and I also have to keep questioning whether she's right, are my motives pure? If she was ranting like a lunatic then it's easier to write her off.

[crdcheck]

Heard from W that she's moving out a week from tomorrow while D3 is with my parents in my hometown (all week). She's started packing stuff (e.g. wedding China, half of kitchen stuff). It gives me fear to see it and I want to snoop ("what's she taking? where's she going?") which I have to tamp down.

Still haven't said anything to D3, not sure what W's plan is on this.

GAL is going well: I've applied to a local university for a certificate program and registered for a few workout classes. Went out with my brother Sat night. Fri was stuck dividing stuff up in the kitchen, Sun ended up having to work remotely. So, not exactly being a lighthouse in terms of fun but getting what I needed to done. Spent all afternoon on Sat at the pool w/ D3, had a great time. Sun was house hunting.

Question: W wants me to pay for half of the dog's expenses and I love the animal but it doesn't feel fair for me to pay for a dog I won't get to see. I know that my parents would take the dog and I would be able to see her more (and not have to pay, not that the money is a big deal) - how have others handled pets? FYI it's like $400/month w/ dog walkers, vet, food, etc. so not nothing.

[Destroyd]

If she is going to keep the dog, then no way should you pay any of the expenses.

[SteveLW]

Heard from W that she's moving out a week from tomorrow while D3 is with my parents in my hometown (all week). She's started packing stuff (e.g. wedding China, half of kitchen stuff). It gives me fear to see it and I want to snoop ("what's she taking? where's she going?") which I have to tamp down.

Still haven't said anything to D3, not sure what W's plan is on this.

GAL is going well: I've applied to a local university for a certificate program and registered for a few workout classes. Went out with my brother Sat night. Fri was stuck dividing stuff up in the kitchen, Sun ended up having to work remotely. So, not exactly being a lighthouse in terms of fun but getting what I needed to done. Spent all afternoon on Sat at the pool w/ D3, had a great time. Sun was house hunting.

Question: W wants me to pay for half of the dog's expenses and I love the animal but it doesn't feel fair for me to pay for a dog I won't get to see. I know that my parents would take the dog and I would be able to see her more (and not have to pay, not that the money is a big deal) - how have others handled pets? FYI it's like $400/month w/ dog walkers, vet, food, etc. so not nothing.

Agree with Destroyd, unless you get 50% custody of the dog, no way should you pay.

Don't snoop. Stuff isn't worth it. Bickering over plates and forks will limit your chances to R down the road if that is something you still want. Remember, lots of people have separated and/or D'd, and still R'd later. So there is always hope.

[crdcheck]

Thanks, guys. I'm trying to find the right balance between not bickering and being assertive. Prior to finding DR and this site I would have given in on everything as an apology for my bad behavior, hope to prove my good-ness to her. I'm not digging in just to dig in or coming up with weird hypotheticals to push her buttons but she sees any view not aligned with her own to be me refusing to compromise.

Onto the dog, she offered shared custody but that seems like a huge pain - D3 will be exchanged at school (in theory W and I won't ever see the others' place) so dog would be separate, we won't be living close to each other and the dog needs a walk during the day so multiple dog walkers. I'm definitely open to taking the dog when W goes on vacation but every other day etc. seems really time-consuming. If I were single I wouldn't have gotten a dog so I don't really want to be the full-time dog dad. I know my parents would take the dog (and treat her better than we do) so... yeah, I can see why W would not like what I'm suggesting but it also seems like this is part of divorce - we aren't on a team anymore.

I saw on another thread that someone was saying that women don't move out for space, they move out to be with someone else. Wondering if that is the deal here... I mean, it doesn't really matter but would help me to understand her rush.

Side note, while I was out with my brother looking at homes yesterday W called from some store to ask if I wanted her to pick up kitchen utensil holders. Brother said that's the nicest he's ever heard her speak to me. Weird times - she hates me, she's nice to me, she's cold to me... etc.