oz, i agree. The anniversary things SPEAKS VOLUMES, and dwarfs the "her being nice and sitting close". She sits close and talks and is nice to a lot of people. So take the cues. You are like everyone else to her right now, she just happens to have to live with you.
I think the problem for you is twofold right now:
1) You haven't dropped the rope. You are still way too attached. Many LBS convince themselves they are detaching, but go read your last post as a casual observer and you will see that you are FAR from detached. A detached man would have let the anniversary thing roll off his back like water off a duck. A detached man wouldn't be word vomiting about her being nice to him and overreacting to it. I am glad that you recognized all of this in your last paragraph.
2) You are too caught up in whatifs and buts. "But I don’t want to minimize the progress either." Huh? What progress? That she is nice? Lots of WAWs have been nice as they walk out the door. I've never heard a single divorced guy go "It [censored] that she left me....but at least she was nice!" WAWs are nice for a lot of reasons. To let their LBH down easy. Because they are afraid that their LBH will become mean and even abusive. To manipulate the LBH into agreeing to their terms. Etc........ oz I've told you before (or maybe it was other LBHs that have had a "nice" WAW) DO NOT LET HER MANIPULATE YOU. There are things you have to do no matter if she is nice, mean or anything in between.
This is why I am adamant about consulting with a lawyer (I know you've done that), and getting into IC (I know you are opposed to this and it is something you will end up regretting).
And I like your last paragraph except for two lines: Make a girl smile help a friend. & Flirt with the confidence to back it up.
Bad idea. You should be focused on YOURSELF...and on your son. That's it. When you start thinking about other girls, or flirting, that tells me you are putting your energy in the wrong places. Lots of LBHs have jumped into a new relationship to "piece a broken heart", only to find themselves in the same situation with the girl that they were with the last.
EARN YOUR WAY OUT. Do the hard work of self-improvement. And I don't see that happening without IC. This forum is great, but a good counselor cannot be replaced by a message board.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Your W is more than likely being nice to you because you have backed off, are not having R talks, and are not forcing her to discuss her feelings or feeling pressured for sex.
Right after BD I did about all the things a LBS should not do and every time I wanted to have a R conversation with her she got more and more pissed off. Like S said don't mistake her being nice and cordial for her feelings changing. If she is not having sex with you and initiating then nothing has changed. My XW would even flirt with me at times, IMO testing me to see if I would take the bait and try to have sex with her. It is all a power play to get you to take the bait and then quickly put you back in your place. Don't take the bait. She started the [censored] and she can end the [censored]. You should also not want to have anything to do with someone that doesn't want to be with you.
While your in the mess it is very hard to see but once you are removed from the situation and experience what it is like to be wanted again and desired by another woman you will quickly realize. I am not advocating that you go find another woman but when you are in the mire it is hard to even imagine and fathom what you were settling for just to avoid D. Just because you "loved her" and she is the mother of your children. I won't go all RED pill on you but it helped me when I started to put it all into perspective.
As S said the only thing you can do is work on yourself, out energy into being the best man you can be, work on becoming self-reliant. I was in IC for 6 months and it did help me process my feelings and emotions. The rest of my progression has been due to gaining a better understanding of myself, my strengths, my weaknesses, becoming more aware of female nature, building attraction, and becoming more self-aware.
You can heal, move on or recon but in order for this not to happen again either with another woman or your current wife you will have to change your patterns and behaviors. Learn about female nature and become more self-aware.
Well, at least you weren't out in public while she was venting to the top of her voice.
I once worked under extreme stress, and the way I coped was to vent. I felt as though nobody cared what was going on, or how it was affecting me. So, every evening I would come home from work and immediately go into describing the situation at work. Then one day my H told me in so many words that he was sick of hearing about it. That hurt my feelings.
Three hours is a long time to listen to word vomit. That's almost an entire evening's worth of vomit. It must have been so difficult for you, while thinking about your anniversary and hoping for a different type of evening with your W.
I would guess that she doesn't realize, or care, that her voice gets louder & louder. It's part of vomiting her stress. When she finally stops, how is her demeanor? What about you? Does it affect you?
For me, I was needing validation. My H would just keep watching TV. However, I never went on for three hours! She may have broken a record. Does she vent while the family is having dinner? How do the kids react?
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It’s amazing how my brain works. When in a bad mood. It zooms in on the bad and blocks all the good things. When I’m in a good mood it’s opposite.
What determines your moods, Oz?
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When I look at my own personal progress it’s the same as my view of her. There is some progress. But my perspective is skewed. I’m not all mr melts man. I’ve got some control over myself now. I’m starting to enjoy GAL. I’m starting to be ok with the prospect of living alone. Then it hits me that maybe I’m ok with these things because she haven’t left yet. Maybe I haven’t progressed as much as I thought. I’m starting to enjoy GAL. But deep down. I really don’t want to. I don’t want to go out by myself. I want to come home to my fam. Kiss the wife hug my son play with the dog eat supper and cuddle with the wife on the couch and then wrastle with the boy before bed. My gut still bucks at GAL. then I don’t deny that me actually thinking the things I am shows tremendous improvement
I think that perhaps most LBS's go through this struggle. They don't want to go out and GAL, but rather stay as near to their spouse as possible. They want to cling to the old familiar patterns, b/c the thought of losing it.........is so painful.
I don't blame you for not wanting to go out alone, but until you make new friends that might be your only choice. Do the things you enjoy that you haven't done, due to the fact your W doesn't enjoy those particular activities. Plan ahead, as best that you can. I am from the paper generation, and would tell you to "pencil" in your GAL plans. Pencils has erasers for a reason.
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But it was our ANNIVERSARY!!!!! She could have at least acknowledged it. We are both the longest relationship the other has had. That hurt. It did.
You had control over not having expectations. You were warned, and yet, you went home with high expectations. It opened you for a big let down. (((Oz)))
I'm going to tell you something, and just put it under your hat for the future when things are better, okay? IDK if all women feel this way, but when it comes to wedding anniversaries and Valentine's Day, I prefer my H to take the lead. Since he isn't the type to take the initiative and actually plan something to do, I learned to have a candlelit dinner, or something else. He was good to pick out very sweet/romantic cards, and sometimes there would be a gift...... so that counts for something.
Don't get the wrong idea. Under the circumstances, I think you did the right thing. If she had wanted you to carry her out, I think she would have sent a text or hinted about it. Apparently, she was too upset about her bad day to go out and celebrate her wedding anniversary.
Here's my thinking about what the LBS should do about celebrating their wedding anniversary and Valentine's Day when they have been bombed dropped. If the other spouse wants to end the M, then why would they want to celebrate, or even recognize a day that symbolizes romance, marriage, etc.?
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Yesterday our everything in the correct perspective. She is done still if you asked her. She may not be as sure as she was but she is still done. All of the correct feelings I’ve had about DBing about GAL and letting go and not controlling what I can’t. It’s time to put those into full action. Drop the rope. Let her go. Get some game. Get a body. Make a girl smile help a friend. Enjoy myself try a new food don’t be afraid. Enjoy myself take pride in me get some swagger like what I see in the mirror. Flirt with the confidence to back it up. Piece the broken heart
I'm sorry you were hurt and disappointed. If the experience helps you have a clearer perspective, then grow from it. Just be prepared to see her show a full range of emotions.
Back to the subject of her three hours of loud venting.........why not try a little experiment. Set the alarm on your phone, your watch or whatever. You will know the approximate time that it takes to get through dinner, and if she's still venting. When the buzzer goes off, you tell her your sorry to interrupt, but you have to leave. Now, if your library stays open late, you can spend a little time searching for books, reading, or whatever. Maybe you can hang out in a book store or coffee shop. You might even post while you're gone. When she asks where you are going, be a little vague and tell her you may go to the library, or book store to look around. Maybe you will have a better answer, but the point is to get out for a little while.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Steve your right. That’s what I was saying. My perspective has been way off. I’ve got much more work to do on detaching and rope dropping. Let her go to get her back. Or let her go and she doesn’t come back. Either way I’ve got to let her go. I have also realized that just like my M can’t be fixed over night neither can I It’s gonna take some work
I’m not interested in another woman. It’s about working on my flirting and turning a gal on skills. It’s gonna take practice and I want to have some game when I’m interacting with W. Plus it’s a confidence booster
I’m going to get into IC
TB. you are right too. The way yesterday went really helped me put my situation into the proper perspective. I really do get it now. I’ve got to let go. And what a perfect time to improve myself. Right now.
Sandi
Your first question. Her demeanor after her vent was very apologetic. She didn’t realize how much time had passed. She found out that a new coworker who she has been training and is very lazy and a slob is making way more money than her. And she works very hard. She has always felt useless and like she has no skills. She has become very good at her job and took pride in it. Now she feels like she is not worth as much as she thought. When she was about to cry at the end of the three hours she actually reached out to hug me for a second. Then she realized what she was doing and changed her body movements to try to hide what she almost done.
I didn’t expect sex last night anniversary or no. It’s her time of the month
I have no idea what determines my moods
I actually expected what happened. So my expectations were met exactly. I guess I was just hopeful. I knew it was a slim chance though
Thanks for the advice guys. I have spent a lot of time thinking about it.
THANK YOU. There are people. People who take time out of their day to help total strangers strangers who are experiencing the worst time in their lives. And the people here help and comfort and console total strangers. It is truly humbling.
From this guy who is stumbling through this crazy painful situation
THANK YOU. There are people. People who take time out of their day to help total strangers strangers who are experiencing the worst time in their lives. And the people here help and comfort and console total strangers. It is truly humbling.
From this guy who is stumbling through this crazy painful situation
THANK YOU!
You are awesome!
Agree with this. I am not sure I've properly thanked all of you that helped me through my sitch. And I live everyday as if I am still in my sitch, because after you've been BD'd you realize that you are in your sitch everyday! And that you should be always be DBing..............
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Thanks AS and Steve. Don’t let me fool you lol. I’m still struggling. It’s just now I kinda get it. I get that I have two choices. Stay in the muck. Where she put me. Or go get a freaking life. Be awesome. Maybe she likes me after that. Maybe she doesn’t. That’s up to her. But I’m not going to be available forever. I’m not anyone’s pet.
What I do get hung up on is is how much I’m available for her to come to as a safe place. A solid place. Someone on here told me to be her safe space. To know she can come to me and that will build trust and respect. But I’m not a doormat either. I could use some help finding the balance
Safe place........W.....oz I had a really bad day today. Oz......W I am sorry, what happened?
Doormat.....oz go mow the yard, yes ma’am right away. Oz salutes. Or. Oz, I am going out with my friends tonight so I need you to watch S. Oz, I am sorry honey but I am going over to Stan’s house tonight to work on his car. W....dam you oz I want to go out I need this. Oz....ok W I will cancel my plans. Oz sits on the couch all night eating Cheetos while W is out having a fun with her friends.
