I saw on another thread that someone was saying that women don't move out for space, they move out to be with someone else. Wondering if that is the deal here... I mean, it doesn't really matter but would help me to understand her rush.
That's me, though I have to admit to poaching from another anti-divorce author (not MWD). And if you think about it, it makes sense. Most wives that move out are in one of three camps:
1. In an active affair 2. Want to find someone new to start sleeping with ASAP 3. Want to get a separation and D to eventually meet someone new
There is a rare 4th camp where they really just don't like being married or being with someone at all and therefore are leaving just to be on their own, but I would argue this constitutes less than 1% of WAWs.
So no matter if it is 1-3, essentially she is leaving to be able to sleep with someone else.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I saw on another thread that someone was saying that women don't move out for space, they move out to be with someone else. Wondering if that is the deal here... I mean, it doesn't really matter but would help me to understand her rush.
I know the other Steve feels strongly about this, but I disagree. I do agree it's in *most* cases (and that's certainly borne itself out on here), but not all, and IMO, not mine.
I'm paraphrasing, but here is what WAW told me w/r/t reasoning: "It hasn't been working, we both know that. We love each other, but we haven't been communicating well, and we haven't been partners the way that I'd like us to be. Coming home with the elephant in the room has been so tough, and I don't know how to fix it right now. But what we're doing right now isn't working, and we have to try something new or else we both know where this is headed. I think we should separate, give each other some space, and continue going to MC."
I have no evidence of EA/PA, and plenty of evidence of WAW not giving up: going to MC, going to her IC, and so on. When I set a boundary at MC around not accepting being a Plan B, and expressed that I was not interested in dating while I worked on myself, she said that for her, dating was the furthest thing from her mind.
So obviously your mileage may very, and to be clear, S is absolutely not what I would have chosen as the route of action for WAW and I. But I do think in an obvious way it was a very clear wake-up call, and a lever that I would not have been strong enough to pull myself.
Maybe I'm a rare case. Or maybe I'm in denial, and my WAW is stringing me along. Time will tell.
Thanks, guys - appreciate the individual viewpoints. Truth is, it doesn't bother me if she wants to hook up with someone and, even if it did, I would hardly be in the position to judge. I'm probably wrapped up on it because it's so confusing to me that we can be so friendly one moment, then she's accusing me of being toxic the next, then "hey, you'll still be invited to my family events", then... it would be a lot easier to know that she's found someone else.
Also, selfishly, if I knew that she was it would make it easier for me to go out and date, too. Deep down, I think that it's "camp 3" - she definitely wants to meet someone else (she's said so herself) but she also said that she didn't want to rush - doesn't like the expectation that sex happens early in relationships, etc. But she's also texting non-stop (no idea who it is) and is really close with various colleagues. I should really just ignore it. I mean, movers come for her stuff a week from tomorrow so it doesn't matter at that point, though, again, knowing would help me to decide if I should be chaste through the ink on the page (up to three months) or not.
M(35), W(35), D(4) M-9, T-12 Bomb Drop (D announcement) - May 3, 2019 W moved out Aug 13 House sold Sept 25 Papers signed Nov 15 Divorce finalized Dec 12
I saw on another thread that someone was saying that women don't move out for space, they move out to be with someone else. Wondering if that is the deal here... I mean, it doesn't really matter but would help me to understand her rush.
I know the other Steve feels strongly about this, but I disagree. I do agree it's in *most* cases (and that's certainly borne itself out on here), but not all, and IMO, not mine.
I'm paraphrasing, but here is what WAW told me w/r/t reasoning: "It hasn't been working, we both know that. We love each other, but we haven't been communicating well, and we haven't been partners the way that I'd like us to be. Coming home with the elephant in the room has been so tough, and I don't know how to fix it right now. But what we're doing right now isn't working, and we have to try something new or else we both know where this is headed. I think we should separate, give each other some space, and continue going to MC."
I have no evidence of EA/PA, and plenty of evidence of WAW not giving up: going to MC, going to her IC, and so on. When I set a boundary at MC around not accepting being a Plan B, and expressed that I was not interested in dating while I worked on myself, she said that for her, dating was the furthest thing from her mind.
So obviously your mileage may very, and to be clear, S is absolutely not what I would have chosen as the route of action for WAW and I. But I do think in an obvious way it was a very clear wake-up call, and a lever that I would not have been strong enough to pull myself.
Maybe I'm a rare case. Or maybe I'm in denial, and my WAW is stringing me along. Time will tell.
Your wife is category #3
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I'm honestly not sure which category W is in - it could be any. I mean, she's said that she's going to take some time for herself before getting into the dating pool and that she has worries about the expectation of sex early in relationships but, on the other hand, she's running out of the door, signed a lease without joint agreement (since her expectation was that I would pay for half her rent plus half of our mortgage). She's super concerned about money (like, researching price differences on $40 items) so, for her to overcome the worries about money (rent being $2k/month which she's fully on the hook for since I refused to pay for her to leave) would seem like it would take a lot. We aren't fighting, no raised voices, and we each have our own space in house. So, what is driving the rush? Scenarios 1 and 2 make the most sense for that but are contrary to her statements a month or two ago.
Anyway, guess it really doesn't matter. On Sunday D3 goes to my parents' for a week, when she comes back we'll be in different houses. Why W is acting in contradictory ways is academic at this point. In terms of what makes an R more likely I can make a case both ways - for all of her hatred of me there's a lot she takes for granted, so getting together could be enlightening for her (after some period of time - I know first-hand how great the early parts of relationships are). On the other hand, her sitting alone at night could also be enlightening. Anyone have any experience one way or the other?
Last night, I got home and asked her if she was going out. She said "no" so I immediately said "great, I'll head out after we put D3 to bed" and then walked off. She called after me and sort of sputtered "well, wait, I mean, when will you be home?" and I told her that I wasn't sure, did she need something? She seemed confused, felt like she wanted to know what I was up to but couldn't think about how to ask. Anyway, took a second look at another house and then met up with a friend (male, good influence on me). Not sure if she's intrigued about what I'm doing or worried that I'm cheating - not sure that it really makes a difference either way. But I'm keeping up with my GAL so I feel good about that.
Speaking of GAL, I got accepted into a local university's certificate program - doesn't do anything for me professionally but would be really neat from a personal growth perspective. Have to figure out the cost but still a step in the right direction.
M(35), W(35), D(4) M-9, T-12 Bomb Drop (D announcement) - May 3, 2019 W moved out Aug 13 House sold Sept 25 Papers signed Nov 15 Divorce finalized Dec 12
Anyway, guess it really doesn't matter. On Sunday D3 goes to my parents' for a week, when she comes back we'll be in different houses. Why W is acting in contradictory ways is academic at this point. In terms of what makes an R more likely I can make a case both ways - for all of her hatred of me there's a lot she takes for granted, so getting together could be enlightening for her (after some period of time - I know first-hand how great the early parts of relationships are). On the other hand, her sitting alone at night could also be enlightening. Anyone have any experience one way or the other?
Can you clear up what you are asking her? Are you asking if you two should be together as a family when D comes home?
If so: No. She fired you as her H. Stop acting like a H to her.
If not, please expound.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
On the other hand, her sitting alone at night could also be enlightening. Anyone have any experience one way or the other?
A lot of LBS's cling to the hope that in separation the WAS will quickly have some kind of awakening and miss them and want to recon. It does happen sometimes, but honestly it's pretty unusual. WAS's usually love being out on their own at first. They really embrace it. They buy all kind of nick knacks to set up their new place, they double down on going out with their enablers, etc. It's all new and exciting and will be for months and months. In the long run who knows, they may continue to embrace the single life, they may settle down with an OM, or they may learn to miss the LBS and start temp checking. But in the short term I wouldn't expect it to be a big revelation for her.
So, why are we here, then? I mean, I am not going to cling to hope, waiting every night for the text that will never come, but if WASs don't come back then is that just a divorce that can't be "busted"? I get it that it varies but am I looking at a 1/10 chance or a 1/3? And is there anything I can do to improve those chances?
Frankly, at this point I'm looking forward to my single future in just about every way. As mentioned in previous posts, I owe a lot to GAL - I've gotten back in touch with old friends, made new ones, taken on new classes, and so on - I feel better, more in control of myself. While I am still ashamed of what I did and the pain I caused W, and would be willing to do whatever it takes to rebuild trust, I can now also look at her and say "your loss". The one area that breaks my heart is D3 and the idea that she won't have the "family" that she did. I recognize that she will still grow to be an amazing person but she loves both of us and she loves spending time as a family. I hate that that is going away.
All that to say, I'd love to put us in a position where we can R but not at the expense of myself as an individual. If there is virtually no chance of an R then, well, I guess that's less stress on me.
M(35), W(35), D(4) M-9, T-12 Bomb Drop (D announcement) - May 3, 2019 W moved out Aug 13 House sold Sept 25 Papers signed Nov 15 Divorce finalized Dec 12
There is definitely a chance for reconciliation but it’s probably not on the time line you’re expecting. It’s rare that WW changes her stance prior to D. It happens but there are typically special circumstances.
Oh, I've given the wrong impression - there is virtually no way shape or form that the divorce does not go through. I can see a slight chance that, after we finish mediation, she decides to hold off on submitting the paperwork, opting for a firm separation, but that's extremely unlikely. If there is an R attempt it will take months at least from when the divorce is finalized.
My question is, once it's finalized and I'm detached, doing my own thing, living my own life, etc., is there anything to do/not do to improve the odds of her seeking an R?
M(35), W(35), D(4) M-9, T-12 Bomb Drop (D announcement) - May 3, 2019 W moved out Aug 13 House sold Sept 25 Papers signed Nov 15 Divorce finalized Dec 12
