I also feel exhausted. And I'm wise enough about my body to know that exhaustion is a huge contributing factor to feeling down. If I had better sleep, I would probably feel better mentally as well. Sleep is a major challenge right now. I am physically exhausted from lifting weights, going for long walks, and building up a sleep deficit. I've been trying sleep meditations - just letting them play on my phone while I fall asleep - with limited success. I just don't feel well-rested at all.
Yes I've found this. I keep waking up bolt upright around 6am each morning, even on Sundays. Sometimes I can go back to sleep. Other times I find my mind wandering, thinking about W and separation or D. I'm reading more. Also listening to lots of good stuff on Audible. Not just self-help stuff but books by comedians etc.. Laughter is as important as sleep.
Me - 36, W - 32 No kids T - 8 yr, M - 3 yr Discovery - 14 May 2019 S - 25 May 2019 & D bomb - 29 July 2019 D & House sale final - Feb 2020
These are profound life changes we're going through. "GAL" - It's relatively easy to distract ourselves and get into a temporary groove.
GAL and PMA are definitely FITYMI (fake it til you make it). It works some of the time.
Originally Posted by CWarrior
It's much harder to find a meaningful permanent substitute for it all.
Deep thoughts coming out of this one.
Meaningful permanent substitute - Do you think this search is why the rebound relationship is so common? When we feel completely adrift, it's natural to go search for an anchor.
I continue to wallow, although being aware helps defuse it slightly. All day yesterday I felt like breaking out sobbing, which I haven't done in probably 6 weeks (after crying every day for maybe 3 months). I never did break out, not sure why, because it would have felt good.
I'm also feeling quite a bit of anger and frustration. Directed towards both my W and myself.
I feel like I've tried to walk this tightrope through the "abuse talk" to get to a place where I see my kids on a reasonable schedule - although the long gaps are really painful. Maybe I sold myself short on custody. I don't know. I narrowly avoided a court battle. Maybe just having 1 night during those 10 day gaps would help me. I know it would not be an easy negotiation with W. But I need to raise it.
Financially this is an awful situation but that wouldn't change much if we proceed with D. I have taken all pressure off my W from going to MC until she is ready.
I feel like I'm standing in place. I have my own place which is fine. But it feels temporary. It doesn't feel like a home.
Sometimes I wonder if my W actually did have a EA/PA at some point. Not sure why I think this, there's no evidence to suggest it. Maybe it's me trying to square the way she has talked about me and treated me, that maybe there is some hidden reason there I never caught onto. She has very strong morals and values - sometimes I think looking at me as a highly abusive person could be her way of justifying being wayward in some way.
Not having my own family to support me is really tough. I have a sister who I typically talk to 2-3 times a year, we live on opposite sides of the country. Our relationship is strained due to the estrangement with my parents, although my sister and I also were not ever super close. I haven't told her about the S, nor do I think it's a particularly good idea right now (my family had major problems with my W, I do not see them giving me solid, healthy support in this scenario). She has tried to get my parents and I to start talking again before. It would be more stressful than helpful. It would be nice to have family support, but it's not in the cards for me.
We are now 2+ months into the physical separation. Originally we talked about this running 6 months, but it morphed into a "who knows how long?" deal. I see no significant changes in our MR, and I feel more comfortable moving on than before. What holds me back right now is the kids - I feel them slipping away, and it really hurts. I feel so heartbroken for them. I know this is what everyone feels in D, even in 50/50 arrangements.
I wonder why I am standing for this MR. I wonder if the abuse talk is something that would completely cloud any future R. Is this situation completely unhealthy and toxic for me? I wrestle with this non-stop.
The two friends I have leaned on heavily for support throughout this process have been amazing at just listening and validating, not inserting their opinion. Lately I sense them both shifting. It's almost like they can't take it anymore and they just want to shake me and tell me I'm in a bad marriage and I need to move on.
There's not much keeping me holding onto the MR at this point. I know D would be a long logistical process (14-18 months in my state) and involve a lot of emotional turmoil. I have such NSO (negative sentiment override) when thinking about my W right now - the abuse allegations, her mind-reading, her controlling nature - and I wonder if I could ever overcome that in any scenario.
How do you know when to not just drop the rope, but cut it?
There's not much keeping me holding onto the MR at this point. I know D would be a long logistical process (14-18 months in my state) and involve a lot of emotional turmoil.
U, I feel your pain.
If D takes 14-18 months in your state have you thought about whether it makes sense to start the process and continue MC in parallel. If your R improves, you can always stop the D. If it gets worse, D gives you a path to move forward with your life. Again, this is just something for you to think about given the long time.
In my sitch the entire D only took a few months. I cannot even imagine the emotional toll going through 14 months of D would entail!
There's not much keeping me holding onto the MR at this point. I know D would be a long logistical process (14-18 months in my state) and involve a lot of emotional turmoil.
U, I feel your pain.
If D takes 14-18 months in your state have you thought about whether it makes sense to start the process and continue MC in parallel. If your R improves, you can always stop the D. If it gets worse, D gives you a path to move forward with your life. Again, this is just something for you to think about given the long time.
In my sitch the entire D only took a few months. I cannot even imagine the emotional toll going through 14 months of D would entail!
MLCxH,
It is a question I am turning over in my head for sure.
Journal ~
This weekend I had the kids. My W had a mini-rant over text that I did not update her for several hours what we were doing, and also that I didn't tell her we went to hang out with a mutual friend (and she instead found out by talking to my kids).
It really triggered me.
In the past month, she has twice hung out with mutual friends of ours, one of him was my best man at our wedding, without telling me ahead of time. And I didn't care! So I'm frustrated she would turn around and get upset, when she doesn't follow her own rules.
The text/update thing was something we agreed to as a short-term plan to get my W comfortable with me having the kids overnight. I also felt like she could have just pinged me to ask what was up, and I would have gladly answered. It just didn't cross my mind, there was no passive-aggressive intention on my part. But she flips this into a "we had an agreement" rant. In the meantime, when our kids are with her, I have no clue what they are doing. Of course I want to know more, but I also respect that it is my W's time with the kids. We do try to have daily video chats if even for a few minutes.
I dropped my older two off at school today, and the younger one up at our marital home. I noticed our family pics are off the wall, replaced by kids' artwork. I was triggered but only slightly, less than I would have thought. I thought.. "makes sense." I don't have pics of my W up at my house either.
I'm getting extremely frustrated in general about my situation. I feel like my W's attitude puts me in this difficult position of having to worry about being bullied due to her abuse talk:
- Child safety: My son burned his hand on a grill at her house last week. Had that happened at my house, she would probably have refused overnights.
- Emotional abuse: She refuses to even talk about our marital problems. She has gone to IC for over 6 months now. For a refresher, what she calls emotional abuse is a regrettable incident where I pulled over the car to try to talk to her after months of silence (to be clear I do not justify this, I do think this was abusive, but I also would like to talk about it with her if she would ever open up). I never called her names, yelled at her, got physical with her, etc.
- Financial: I know if we D today, she would be in a tough spot, and I empathize for her. At the same time, she does not appear to be doing anything to help the situation out (like going back to work with urgency). She will probably consider it "abusive" if I file for D today, for instance.
- General interactions: Every interaction feels stressful and strained. I feel like (for lack of a better term) she is constantly busting my b@lls.
- Parenting: I feel like my W does not understand in a D that we will be co-parents, but also independent parents as well when it comes to certain decisions. I worry that she will not be able to let go of that control, and we will continue to have negative interactions with some distant threat that she may claim the kids are unsafe with me for some reason.
I've also noticed a general trend if one of our kids seems to be going through a difficult period, somehow it's a referendum on my parenting. Instead of perhaps accepting that these are little people adjusting to massive changes in their lives and it might be affecting them? My youngest sometimes doesn't sleep well at my house. Rather than accept she's going through changes, and adjusting to a new house, there are always these indirect accusations that it is my fault (my W is really good at making passive-aggressive digs).
To wrap it up... I feel like I know what I need to do. In no way does this feel to me like a relationship that could be reconciled. I feel like I have let go of the rope but I'm still grasping at it for some reason. Waiting is not going to help me. I could wait a day, a month, a year, and the toxic abuse talk will persist and cloud every negotiation and discussion. I'm just going to have to face it at some point, make sure I stand up for myself, and if L's need to get involved then so be it. Only then can I really piece together a life out of this mess... somehow build something new, for me and my kids, the way I want.
We are going back to MC next week (first time in a month).
I am considering raising the fact that the discussions about child safety in MC are setting a tone where I don't feel like we have an equal co-parenting partnership. And that I can't continue to go to MC (which is really "co-parenting coaching") with this imbalance. I always feel on the defensive, under the microscope, and in general not getting much out of these sessions at this point. On the other hand, we haven't gone in a month, and I find our interactions are worsening gradually again.
we had an agreement" rant. In the meantime, when our kids are with her, I have no clue what they are doing.
You're under more restrictions than my ex-wife was, and she had 1x physically abused the children. I've known people with supervised visitation and no overnights, but typically they had histories involving criminal behavior, or the child was still breast-feeding. I wonder if a discussion with an attorney would help clarify norms and your rights. Early on I knew my rights and had ready responses (I never used) to alleviate concerns about problem scenarios like, "What if she doesn't hand-over (or pick-up) the kids?"
Originally Posted by "Unchien"
On the other hand, we haven't gone in a month, and I find our interactions are worsening gradually again.
It sounds like you feel discussion would be helpful, but the format needs to change. I wonder what an improved format would look like for you--50/50 time for her/your issues?
This weekend I had the kids. My W had a mini-rant over text that I did not update her for several hours what we were doing, and also that I didn't tell her we went to hang out with a mutual friend (and she instead found out by talking to my kids).
It really triggered me.
In the past month, she has twice hung out with mutual friends of ours, one of him was my best man at our wedding, without telling me ahead of time. And I didn't care! So I'm frustrated she would turn around and get upset, when she doesn't follow her own rules.
U, I am sorry you're going through this. There is no question that it is not fair and equal. It isn't for any of us. If it was we'd probably all be working on our marriages! When we talk about being the lighthouse and the rock, this is exactly what we mean. Your W is a wild storm while you are a model of stability. Whenever she starts the crazy talk try to picture that image in your mind- of her lashing about like a wild storm and you as the solid lighthouse taking the battering like it's nothing. Believe me, it helps! Mental images can really help calm you when you feel anxious. Have you read the Happiness Trap? That's where I learned those techniques.
we had an agreement" rant. In the meantime, when our kids are with her, I have no clue what they are doing.
You're under more restrictions than my ex-wife was, and she had 1x physically abused the children. I've known people with supervised visitation and no overnights, but typically they had histories involving criminal behavior, or the child was still breast-feeding. I wonder if a discussion with an attorney would help clarify norms and your rights. Early on I knew my rights and had ready responses (I never used) to alleviate concerns about problem scenarios like, "What if she doesn't hand-over (or pick-up) the kids?"
Originally Posted by "Unchien"
On the other hand, we haven't gone in a month, and I find our interactions are worsening gradually again.
It sounds like you feel discussion would be helpful, but the format needs to change. I wonder what an improved format would look like for you--50/50 time for her/your issues?
CW -
Thanks. I don't feel restricted in a legal sense, because I know I could go to a lawyer today and demand 50/50 and get into a court battle and get it.
The IMPLICIT threat is what bothers me. If my son had burnt his hand at my house, I'm 100% positive she would make it a child safety issue. I feel constantly like she is scrutinizing my parenting.
She has not yet refused to hand over the kids since I provided the generic parenting plan about 6 weeks ago. But it's constant tug-of-war. I could be more assertive with my parenting rights, and things will get uglier, and maybe that's what I need to do and get over my NGS.
Regarding MC -- we ended the last session with my W asking for a month break, because she was not ready to discuss "the emotional and physical abuse." We are going to go back, and my entire stance has not changed... I'm only there at this point if we are working on the MR, otherwise, let's take another break from MC. The only thing I may mention is that I want to ramp down the safety concerns because they are becoming unreasonable.
I'm at no risk of supervised visitation, etc. I know my rights. My W has mentioned this stuff in front of FOUR mandatory reporters, none of whom reported it.
It all begs the question of why would I want to reconcile with this person...
This weekend I had the kids. My W had a mini-rant over text that I did not update her for several hours what we were doing, and also that I didn't tell her we went to hang out with a mutual friend (and she instead found out by talking to my kids).
It really triggered me.
In the past month, she has twice hung out with mutual friends of ours, one of him was my best man at our wedding, without telling me ahead of time. And I didn't care! So I'm frustrated she would turn around and get upset, when she doesn't follow her own rules.
U, I am sorry you're going through this. There is no question that it is not fair and equal. It isn't for any of us. If it was we'd probably all be working on our marriages! When we talk about being the lighthouse and the rock, this is exactly what we mean. Your W is a wild storm while you are a model of stability. Whenever she starts the crazy talk try to picture that image in your mind- of her lashing about like a wild storm and you as the solid lighthouse taking the battering like it's nothing. Believe me, it helps! Mental images can really help calm you when you feel anxious. Have you read the Happiness Trap? That's where I learned those techniques.
Thanks AS -
I own the Happiness Trap, but never read all the way through it. I bought it back in the pre-BD days when I thought we just had some basic communication problems and I wanted to do my part to work on things. That and about 20 other books! I'll go check it out again.
The image of weathering the storm helps me a lot. What troubles me about the lighthouse analogy is that it implies standing in place, which is something I cannot do.
One thing I've noticed is if I stand up for myself just a bit, and show her a little bit of frustration (but not much), that seems to help. This morning she was pestering me over text about the fact D3 keeps crawling into my bed in the middle of the night, implying that I was causing her to have sleep troubles. I said something like "I think D3 is really struggling with the separation. She keeps asking when I am going to move back home. I'm doing my best to make her feel safe and comfortable at my house." I know this was not good validation but it seemed to have the desired effect of backing off my W.
Sometimes I wonder if I take the lighthouse analogy too far and I need to show that I'm a human from time to time.
