I know I can talk R right now, but should I let her know that when she's ready to talk, I'm always open to it and leave it at that, not being it up again unless she does.?
No, and here's why. As crazy as it may sound, she should wonder if she's pushed you away. Even if you are behaving like friends at the moment, she should never be assured that you will always be there for her.......no matter what. She should not be assured that there is nothing she could ever do that would stop you loving her. These are things you tell a spouse who is in love with you. Didn't she tell you she is no longer "in love" with you? You may not see pursuit in the quote above, and that's understandable. Everything is pursuit (emotional pressure), for her. Just suggesting that you would be open to a R talk whenever she's ready..........is pressure. When she's ready to talk, she will. She needs no encouragement or assurance where you stand.
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What's driving me crazy is not knowing what she's thinking, what her plans are , if she has any.
Then turn this ^^^^^^^around. She should be going crazy not knowing what you are thinking, and what your plans are, since she bombed you.
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About a week after she broke the news to me, she was rear ended and I think the cars being totalled. I don't know if that's the only reason she's still at home.
She always has two plans. Plan A takes priority, but it doesn't always fall just like she wants.......therefore, she always has a backup plan. That's where you come into the picture as her backup, better known as Plan B.
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Yesterday we were doing some shopping for things she needs,
And why were you tagging along?
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hanging out around the house, conversations are like they were before all this happened, like friends hanging out, almost like it never happened, but with no physical contact.
Welcome to your new normal. It will stay this way until Plan A comes through, or one of you die.
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As far as the apology letter that my DB coach had me write, I should have clarified with her, but she said to give it to my wife when things seem to be going good or getting better. Things are ok right now, but like I said, we're like friends,. I would assume she probably meant when things are turning around and going in a positive direction. Am I right?
I think you are right. I also think you need to forget about the apology letter, b/c it's distracting you from more important things at the moment. For example, you refer to things being okay right now. Although she's not sleeping with you and says she's not in love with you, you define the situation as okay..........b/c she has friend zoned you and for some reason you want to believe it's better than nothing. Let me ask you, if you knew this would be the best it ever gets in the MR, is that okay with you?
Actually, I think I get you. You are trying to follow some general advice that one gets to improve their M, and you want to know if you are doing it correctly. The thing is that by the time a H comes to a public forum seeking help for his M problems, it's very serious and there's usually more going on than comes out initially. I've been around long enough to see this same scenario play out many times. It starts with the H going along with whatever his W decides, and if she's in the mood to hang out and play happy family, goes shopping with her for things she needs, etc. In other words, he is very accommodating.
A wife loses her attraction for her H, and her "in love" feelings, b/c she stops respecting him. Her desire/love is tied to how much she respects him as a man, and as her H. So, that's where you need to start working. She's not going to start respecting you by hanging out with her whenever she decides to drop by the house for a few days. Don't go shopping with her when it's all about her. You should be too busy GAL that doesn't include her. Don't tag along while she's women shopping. Fill up your calendar with activities for yourself. I'm not talking about computer games or watching TV, I mean something that gets you away from the house. You'll probably be concerned about what she'll think about it. Well, that's part of the problem. Stop worrying about her. This is the time to give her a massive amount of space. No texting throughout the day, no doing all her chores around the house, no smothering her with your constant watching or following her around the house.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I want to say thank you to everyone for all the replies. I plan to reread them several times to let it all sink in, its a lot of good info.
Originally Posted by sandi2
This is very typical. Your W wants to "normalize" the new arrangement she has forced on the family/home. She is just fine demoting you from husband to a friend, and going through the motions of happy family. Sadly, many couples spend the remaining married years in the friend zone. BTW, how was your sex life, before the bomb drop?
Well, there's some info missing from my original post that came out with my talk with my DB coach regarding the sex life. We hadn't had sex for about 2 years before the bomb drop. Her reason given for it was she said it was because of menopause. Prior to that, we probably had sex maybe every 2-3 weeks, hard to remember how often when it's that far back. I can't really say how long ago the infrequent sex started. As far as our sorry sex life and lack of intimacy, I believe I'm the cause of that. I never considered it a problem until talking with my DB coach, but I've been involved in viewing porn for most of our married life. i don't remember how often I would view it earlier in the marriage, but going back maybe 15 years, it was fairly excessive, viewing porn maybe 4-6 days a week, sometime multiple times per day. Maybe anywhere between 1/2 hour to maybe 2 hours or more wasted time per day. I know this affected our intimacy, my sexual performance, my lack of desire to have sex when my wife wanted it. I would usually say I just wasn't in the mood or too tired. I had trouble maintaining an erection during sex, my wife tried to get me to go to the doctor to have things check out, but I would just blow it off.
Right now, I'm trying to control it on my own. Porn blockers on my devices, trying to be conscious of any triggers that make me want to view porn and redirecting my thoughts. I've only had a couple slip ups the past 5 weeks and I realize I may need professional help.
So,I know all this is the reason for the decline in our marriage. The emotional disconnect this caused between my wife and me was compounded by the lack of us doing much together as a couple over the last several years. I don't blame her for the current situation of our marriage. The bomb drop was my wake up call to all the things I've done wrong for many years that caused her to drift away emotionally and lose the love for me. I'm working on myself and trying to address the issues I have, so even if she were ready to R and come back into the marriage tomorrow, I couldn't do it until I can get my stuff straight. I just want to be ready so when it comes time to R, I won't slip back into my old self and repeat the same mistakes.
Originally Posted by sandi2
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What's driving me crazy is not knowing what she's thinking, what her plans are , if she has any.
Then turn this ^^^^^^^around. She should be going crazy not knowing what you are thinking, and what your plans are, since she bombed you.
So to get her going crazy not knowing what I am thinking, is that just part of GAL? Is it just a matter of being mysterious because she doesn't know what's going on with me, where I'm at or what I'm doing?
Originally Posted by sandi2
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hanging out around the house, conversations are like they were before all this happened, like friends hanging out, almost like it never happened, but with no physical contact.
Welcome to your new normal. It will stay this way until Plan A comes through, or one of you die.
Actually, I think I get you. You are trying to follow some general advice that one gets to improve their M, and you want to know if you are doing it correctly. The thing is that by the time a H comes to a public forum seeking help for his M problems, it's very serious and there's usually more going on than comes out initially. I've been around long enough to see this same scenario play out many times. It starts with the H going along with whatever his W decides, and if she's in the mood to hang out and play happy family, goes shopping with her for things she needs, etc. In other words, he is very accommodating.
A wife loses her attraction for her H, and her "in love" feelings, b/c she stops respecting him. Her desire/love is tied to how much she respects him as a man, and as her H. So, that's where you need to start working. She's not going to start respecting you by hanging out with her whenever she decides to drop by the house for a few days. Don't go shopping with her when it's all about her. You should be too busy GAL that doesn't include her. Don't tag along while she's women shopping. Fill up your calendar with activities for yourself. I'm not talking about computer games or watching TV, I mean something that gets you away from the house. You'll probably be concerned about what she'll think about it. Well, that's part of the problem. Stop worrying about her. This is the time to give her a massive amount of space. No texting throughout the day, no doing all her chores around the house, no smothering her with your constant watching or following her around the house.
So with this I guess I should GAL and be around her as little as possible. Usually when she is home for the 2-3 days, its in the evening after work when I'm making dinner and getting my things ready for work the next day. She usually gets home between 6-6:30 and I'm off to bed around 9:30. In that 3 hours, I don't hang around her, I don't greet her at the door. She usually finds me to talk to about her day at work while I'm making dinner ( for the 3 of us, with my son ), or if I'm sitting on the back patio. When she makes her way into the living room, I find something to do in another room. I also don't call or text her unless its something important, the number of times I could count on one hand. She rarely calls me and only texts me when she needs something and I keep my responses short.
Thanks for sharing that part with us, Rick. There was a poster on the board named Trumpet (like that name) who had porn addiction. He went cold turkey and last I heard, he had not looked back. If you're interested, check out his story.
So since my last post,coming clean with the porn problem, I've been dealing with the pain of realizing how much this porn addiction has lead to what's going on now. The resentment my wife must feel for me for the years I wasn't emotionally connected to her and the lack of intimacy and disinterest I had in making love to her. I know the past is in the past and I can't change what's happened.
This realization occurred shortly after that post, I guess seeing it in writing and admitting to it on this forum has made me see how damaging it's been to my family.
Rick, I think I recognise where you are because I was there once. Some plain advice about my situation may be appropriate. I'm not preaching because I don't know the whole story and cannot expect to so take on board any or none of this as you feel appropriate.
loss of attraction takes time
I was ignoring her emotional needs that I didn't understand for some time
This depletes the feeling of love slowly and relentlessly
ILYBINILWY is a critical sign that she's almost giving up but she is reaching out
talking about R right now will give rise to negative thoughts that could tip the R over the edge
The only safe way forward is to build love ignoring all else
Finding out what she's not been getting( probably for years ) is critical
It is likely to be something that seems insignificant( to you or me ) and is easy to provide
Demonstrating understanding of that will change her perception
Once love is restored all the issues that were swept under the carpet must be addressed
Hope this helps you avoid a load of mistakes I made. Good Luck.
Now divorced, boys grown up. Now in new failed relationship( never again, please )
Thanks for the reply Family Man, I think a lot of that applies to my sitch.
I read your thread and I'm sorry for what you're going thru a 2nd time. This is by far the most difficult thing I've ever experienced. Hope things begin turning around for you sooner rather than later.
So I think I'm doing pretty good with my detachment right now, I don't feel like I'm as concerned about what she's doing or where she's at much anymore. And I think after posting about my porn issues and getting out in the open, the realization of what it did to the marriage and the pain I was feeling for it has been subsiding. Using this forum as something of a journal helps too I guess.
My biggest worry now with all this isn't so much what my wife may be doing but what affect it has on the rest of the family and our finances. We have a house and mortgage, I can't afford it on my own if she just uo and jump ship and takes her income with her. We have a bankruptcy on our credit report that drops off next year and if we loose the house, that's another hit to my credit. My daughter is in the Navy, stationed in California, we live in Missouri. My son is here with me but he'll be leaving for the Airforce sometime around November. I'm not sure how much contact she has with either of them, my daughter has mentioned that she's text my wife but doesn't always get a response back. My wife hasn't really show much interest in what my son has going on with the airforce that I've seem. When she's home for a couple days she doesn't reach out to him to see how he's doing, but she'll talk with him if he comes to her.
I don't know if this is because she's in a state of confusion because she doesn't really know what she's doing or what. I'm not sure but maybe she's avoid talking to my kids much thinking maybe there going to bring up the MR. My D did contact my wife and asked her if she wanted to talk, my W told her she wasn't ready to talk and my D left it at that.
Any insight anyone might have would be appreciated.
My biggest worry now with all this isn't so much what my wife may be doing but what affect it has on the rest of the family and our finances.
Who are you trying to kid? Fix the issue with your wife and the other problems go away. It is time for a new you to step up to the plate. Talk to her about what's missing in her relationship with you. Don't judge, justify or argue, just listen and then develop a new game strategy. Keep it honest though - she will see straight through any BS. The new you is the prototype for the future you who has a great relationship with your W. You can probably guess I'm trying to reinforce my own determination.
Now divorced, boys grown up. Now in new failed relationship( never again, please )
So, I wanted to hit on a couple of things from earlier on than I never responded to.
Originally Posted by Ready2Change
Sandi2 is very wise. Read her words above again multiple times and get everything she says burned into your mind.
I was bomb dropped 10 years ago. I was with my wife for 18 years. I have been on these boards for a long time.
Here is what I believe:
"Set her free" to get her back. Set her free to get her back. Set her free to get her back.
Most newbies take to long to do this. She is wayyyyyy ahead of you. You need to get ahead of her. She is very predictable. Spend enough time reading here and you should be able to predict everything she will do and have a plan on how to respond appropriately.
"I do not want to be with a woman who does not want to be with me"
I am not saying you do this immediately but you should quickly get to a point where you understand why I am recommending this:
H:"W, we need to talk" W:"OK" H:"W, I have thought about what you said the other day, and I agree. This is not working for me either. I think it is best that you start looking for a place to live."
#1) You tell her you listened to her. #2) By agreeing, you validate how she feels. #3) You let her know that you understand it is not working for her #4) You let her know that it is not working for you. #5) You as the man are leading. No stuck in limbo. #6) She wants out, you are not standing in the way. #7) she wants out, she moves out. #8) you are creating distance for her to pursue you
This reply from R2C along with comments about bring in the "friend zone" and limbo with my sitch. Earlier on, my wife was only home from Sunday evening until she goes to work Wednesday, and then spending the rest of the week with her "friends" or who ever, I really don't care at this point. Last week, she was home Thursday as well and this week, I know she'll at least be home Saturday too, although it may only be because I need to go to the DMV with her because of the registration for the new car she bought herself.
To get back on subject, I'm really getting tired of this limbo and not knowing where this is all going. When she's here, we talk, I joke with her, she laughs, everything is really pleasant. I have no idea what she wants, if she has a plan or if I'm included. I'm getting to the point I want her to decide one way or the other, separate and stop living under the same roof or work on the M. With her living away from me, I feel I can get on with my life and go dark and if she makes up her mind to include me in her life, I would be willing to work on the M, otherwise I just keep doing what I need to do for myself.
I guess my concern with not knowing anything is I don't know if she's just playing house until something better comes along, or if she's in the process of getting a place to move to, whether with a friend or on her own with no concern that I can't afford the house we're in without her. Or maybe she's just confused and questioning everything, not really knowing what she wants or whether she wants to work on the M.
I'm in no hurry to go either way with this, just something I'm considering.
I just feel if I push to either work on the M or we need to separate, I'll be taking the lead and getting thing moving one way or the other. I just don't know how long I can live like married friends. It also won't be a quick separation we have to sell the house first. Although I do see if I push for one or the other, it'll most likely be a separation since I'm sure she's not to the point of working on anything. But, I don't think she can afford to live on her own since she just bought a new car and she'd have to get her own insurance. Then I have the concern that maybe she would choose to work on the M to buy her some time to come up with a plan to move on without me. I don't know how I could tell if she was genuine in her wanting to work on the M.
But is it also possible that this may get her thinking about seriously reconsidering stay in the M and working on it? I just don"t know......
Something else on my mind is that my son goes to basic for the Air Force in November and my daughter's in the Navy, so anything that comes up with them and graduations, my wife and I will both be attending. This whole situation also makes the visits home for the holidays that much more stressful....
The best thing you can do right now is to start to think about what kind of life do you want moving forward and start planning for it. Start to prepare to sell the house. Make an appointment with a realtor. Eat right, work out, exercise your body, mind and spirit everyday. Reconnect with old friends, make new friends. Take up a hobby.
I hate to break the news to you but this will most likely take many months most likely years to play out. Also, it is highly likely your W is having an affair. Don't be too hard on yourself for the mistakes you made in the past. We are all imperfect human beings. Unless you had parents who were in a healthy relationship most people don't know what it's like to have a healthy relationship. This is where you learn from your mistakes and start reading up on the subject.
Read Sandis rules print them out and implement them. No one will ever treat you in a way that you don't allow them to. If you are not cool with the friend zone then don't allow yourself to be in the friend zone.
Unfortunately in the world we live in right now it is extremely difficult for high school sweethearts to go the distance. Your best chance is to become a man only a fool would leave.
