Separated and sorted #2

[unchien]

Journal -

Last night my older 2 kids had a school dance show. My W and I sat together to watch the show. Nothing remarkable in the interactions.

I had this weird feeling of being completely unattracted to her, like I was not feeling any sort of pull. I know there is still some rope there I am hanging onto, but it felt noticeably slacker.

Enough about her...

Something incredibly weird happened to me recently, I am struggling to comprehend it. First I have to provide some backstory.

I find I am getting really philosophical lately. Where I used to spend a lot of time ruminating and problem-solving, now I spend that time and energy thinking about deeper things.

Meditation, mindfulness, and emotional awareness have started to really click for me. I feel cultish about it. I feel like I need to snap out of it honestly, it feels weird. Too many things are falling into place all at once. I am not a traditionally religious person, but I am also not an atheist, and things like this are what convinces me there is some higher power or spirituality involved. My rational logic brain tells me I am crazy.

I'm a little freaked out by all of it to be honest. It feels like a lot of seismic internal change all at once. And it all feels good. It doesn't seem right, I doubt my feelings.

I work at a company that provides a really nice meditation phone app for free. I've come to really enjoy some of the individual guiders, they balance humor and perspective in this way that works great for me. It's not all serious and "OM" and things like that. Without this app, I don't think I ever get into meditation...

I also happen to work at a beautiful office campus with an outdoor pond where I can go every day and just pop in my headphones, relax, and meditate for a few minutes. It's made it so EASY to get into.

Four months ago, my situation drives me to DB forums. I see men in the same position as me, men who would normally not feel drawn to mindfulness and meditation, and it's working for them. I've tried it before, several times in my life, with no luck, but what the heck, right?

I joined a men's support group a few weeks ago (still in trial). Some of the stories I hear are absolutely soul-crushing, it normalizes my experience. But what I notice most is these men struggling with the emotional awareness aspect. I can visibly SEE it. Six months ago I would have heard these stories and thought, "That person is really in an awful spot and I have nothing to offer."

But now the weird thing that happened... a random interaction with a stranger last week. Since physical separation, I tend to talk up people in public - Uber drivers, at the grocery store, men or women, whatever. It's good practice to overcome my social anxiety, plus it's just really enjoyable to hear other people's stories. It *normalizes* my life. Life feels like a place of abundance. Sometimes one of these interactions makes my day, sometimes people look at you like a nut. It's fun.

Anyways... I'm at the grocery store, picking out bell peppers next to a woman. She glances over, she's picking out Brussel sprouts. I say, "I used to hate those, but they are incredible with bacon." She says, "I know! Me too! But I'm off bacon now because I'm on this clean diet" and we are off in conversation... and I come to find out a few minutes later she works in the meditation and mindfulness world. And not only that, but she works directly with the people on the phone app and knows them personally. Her JOB is to work with these people. And then she reveals she's divorced with 3 kids. I asked if her background helped her cope with the split, she says it's a constant struggle, one would think she's some sort of an expert, but "We can't all be Buddha."

Which is basically what I say to my closest friend every day...

It freaked me out. It still freaks me out. The engineer side of me says these random events are much more likely than people choose to believe. It's like that math problem of "how many people need to be in a room before the odds are >50% that 2 people share the same birthday" -- the answer is much smaller than you expect.

I don't know what the universe is trying to tell me. But there's something there.

[gzabetas]

and to think, all that came from an opener on brussel sprouts
Good job unchien. keep it up.
ps didnt know you were also an engineer.

[Traveler]

It's like that math problem of "how many people need to be in a room before the odds are >50% that 2 people share the same birthday" -- the answer is much smaller than you expect.

In a typical classroom of 20-30 this doesn't happen, so intuitively I'd guess 60-90.

Let's see..
1 person = 0
2 people = 1/365
3 people = 1/365 + 2/365
4 people = 1/365 + 2/365 + 3/365..
N people = 1/365 + 2/365... N-1/365 = (n-1)(n)/2 > 182.5
(n-1)(n)/2 > 365/2 => (n^2 - n) / 2 > 365/2 => (n^2-n) > 365 => n=20

Wow! I oversimplified the math so this is an estimate, but it takes ~20 people. Interesting.

[unchien]

My point was how unnerving the whole thing is. I’m confident I can meet a woman down the road. This felt like the universe deliberately messing with me.

[Traveler]

My point was how unnerving the whole thing is. I’m confident I can meet a woman down the road.

Your story is very promising in that regard.

[IronWill]

I have been having similar experiences in various forms since BD. I dont necessarily think it is the universe messing with you - I think it's more that you (or I) am getting in tune with people who are going through similar circumstances.

It also may be - at least in part - our brains attempting to problem solve. There was a person in our lives for a long time, and now there is not. Therefore brain seeks to fill that void.

Or it may just be random circumstance.

I find life interesting (sometimes painfully so) in that regard - things only become clear after you have gone through them.

One thing I started doing that has helped me a lot has been to ask myself "What am I supposed to be learning from this?" whenever I encounter situations or conversations that strike me as interesting or unusual.

I dont get the answer right away many times, but sometimes a few days later I get that "aha" moment.

[unchien]

IW - You nailed it. You get what I am driving at.

I have been having similar experiences in various forms since BD. I dont necessarily think it is the universe messing with you - I think it's more that you (or I) am getting in tune with people who are going through similar circumstances.

Maybe it's just the weird feeling of connecting with people. I had sort of shut myself off for awhile, playing the husband/father role and thinking it was pointless to connect because I would never have time or energy for other people.

It also may be - at least in part - our brains attempting to problem solve. There was a person in our lives for a long time, and now there is not. Therefore brain seeks to fill that void.

There is a darker side to this I didn't mention in the post. This woman was attractive, not a stunner, but attractive in ways that I like. It was blatantly obvious she wanted me to ask for her number. Had I been single or D'd it would have been a complete no-brainer.

The NGS alarm bells were clanging. Seeking a woman's approval. Believing another person will fill a hole in your life. Rose-colored classes. All of it.

I may end up D'd, but I absolutely can not, will not, repeat history. I'm going to have to get my mind straight.

Perhaps the universe (or God or whatever one believes in) is really really clever and threw this test my way to get me thinking...

Or it may just be random circumstance.

Objectively it has to be random.

It doesn't feel random.

One thing I started doing that has helped me a lot has been to ask myself "What am I supposed to be learning from this?" whenever I encounter situations or conversations that strike me as interesting or unusual.

I dont get the answer right away many times, but sometimes a few days later I get that "aha" moment.

I've been thinking about what you said here for almost an hour.

I feel the most detached I have ever felt from my W. Yesterday when I video chatted with my kids she got on the call and, details not important, upset S7 unnecessarily and was telling him "Mom and Dad are on the same page." I was sitting there thinking, "This is completely unnecessary, I really dislike how she handles these things, we could talk on the side, now S7 is hiding out in his room, I am absolutely not on the same page." She was all stirred up and then saying she had a lot to do to get ready for the week... and I was thinking, she makes it harder than it needs to be. She is high strung and controlling. I saw W on Friday and felt zero attraction to her. I just don't want to be around her. I don't want to interact with her. I don't want to talk about custody or financial issues or house repairs or anything. I'm tired of the negativity of every interaction.

And then this grocery store woman comes my way...

It raises SO MANY questions:

- How far detached am I?
- Am I still hoping for a woman to make me feel complete?
- Do I realize that I have value to other people?
- Am I doing right by my kids?
- Can I look past the negativity of the current situation today, and see a path where things improve in my MR?

I have some serious soul-searching to do.

[IronWill]

Maybe it's just the weird feeling of connecting with people. I had sort of shut myself off for awhile, playing the husband/father role and thinking it was pointless to connect because I would never have time or energy for other people.

I think you're right. I went through something similar back in February or March. I decided to let myself connect with people - but only to the point of "friends", and only people I knew for a long time in real life. In large gatherings or at events with many people, I allow myself to be friendly with women that I've known as mutual friends with W - but that is all, and no talk about my MR. The new friends I have made or old friends I've rekindled friendships with have strictly been male.

I made a decision that I would do this as long as I am standing, as long as we are IHS, as long as we are not D. It is a single solitary decision that I made on my own after much internal debate, and it is what i am doing at this moment.

I would recommend thinking about making a deal with yourself that you can live with, if you decide to stand. Sort of setting your own self a boundary.

There is a darker side to this I didn't mention in the post. This woman was attractive, not a stunner, but attractive in ways that I like. It was blatantly obvious she wanted me to ask for her number. Had I been single or D'd it would have been a complete no-brainer.

The NGS alarm bells were clanging. Seeking a woman's approval. Believing another person will fill a hole in your life. Rose-colored classes. All of it.

I may end up D'd, but I absolutely can not, will not, repeat history. I'm going to have to get my mind straight.

I would not beat yourself up over a single interaction, U. You are aware enough to realize that it set off these alarm bells and it cause you enough concern to stop yourself and assess the situation.

It's never easy doing the hard work, checking yourself, when it seems like it would be so simple to go towards something new.

Again, I would think about what you want. And how long you are willing to wait.

My R was 21 yrs long. I am in no way shape.or form ready for something new - it would be a rebound and i would absolutely bring in the same issues. I do not want to go through this all over again. My plan (if you want to call it that) is tentatively to let myself breathe and be me for the next 4 or 5 yrs. That may change later, I dont know. But right now, it feels about right.

I feel the most detached I have ever felt from my W. Yesterday when I video chatted with my kids she got on the call and, details not important, upset S7 unnecessarily and was telling him "Mom and Dad are on the same page." I was sitting there thinking, "This is completely unnecessary, I really dislike how she handles these things, we could talk on the side, now S7 is hiding out in his room, I am absolutely not on the same page." She was all stirred up and then saying she had a lot to do to get ready for the week... and I was thinking, she makes it harder than it needs to be. She is high strung and controlling. I saw W on Friday and felt zero attraction to her. I just don't want to be around her. I don't want to interact with her. I don't want to talk about custody or financial issues or house repairs or anything. I'm tired of the negativity of every interaction.

And then this grocery store woman comes my way...

It raises SO MANY questions:

- How far detached am I?
- Am I still hoping for a woman to make me feel complete?
- Do I realize that I have value to other people?
- Am I doing right by my kids?
- Can I look past the negativity of the current situation today, and see a path where things improve in my MR?

I have some serious soul-searching to do.

A couple of things I noticed in your post here. Call it a 1x3

1. Beware of falling into the trap of "the grass is greener on the other side."
2. Remember that your W is going through something, too, just like you are.
3. Everyone has bad days.
4. Empathy is the mot du jour.

I know you don't want to deal with all these bad things, U. Neither do I. I really don't. But unfortunately we have to.

I'm going to give you a quote here that I absolutely love. I heard it many times in the military and it has helped me a lot.in the past year:

Sometimes when life gives us lemons, we have to eat our [censored] lemons

I know it sounds brutal, U - it's a shitty deal you have here, even more.so because you have kids. But that's all part of this LBS journey we are on. Think about it, even if the woman gave you her number - how would you imagine that realistically playing out? Would it simplify your life right now? Would everything be alright with the world afterwards? What problems would that eliminate?

Its human nature to want to alleviate pain, but then what would we learn? Would we keep making the same mistakes if there were no pain?

Anyway I'm rambling again - sorry lol

Reeling it back in here...

I would look at it as a great ego-booster - nothing more. The universe let you have a break for a few moments - and you realized that you were worth something. You saw that you did have value. And you were able to recognize that.

If you decide you are standing, take the win - and keep on your journey

Stay strong buddy.

[unchien]

IW - Thanks for the long response, I will have more thoughts tonight.

I question more and more why I am standing. Yes, I have kids, and I believe that carries a huge amount of weight. But there's nothing else there for me pulling me back.

My W has accused me of emotional and physical abuse. Not legally. But in front of mandatory reporters. Multiple times. She has not changed her position over a period of a year. She continues to go to IC to work on herself and maybe get to a point where we can talk about it. But nothing has changed.

This weekend S7 burned his hand at W's house. He touched an outdoor grill. Had this happened at my house, it would have triggered safety inspections, counseling, and possibly my W withholding the children. He was fine. He had a small blister on his hand.

EVERYTHING else about my situation is secondary. All my other doubts about our relationship don't matter.

Do I really want to reconcile with this person? No, I do not. And I don't know what to do about it.

[unchien]

I decided to let myself connect with people - but only to the point of "friends", and only people I knew for a long time in real life. In large gatherings or at events with many people, I allow myself to be friendly with women that I've known as mutual friends with W - but that is all, and no talk about my MR. The new friends I have made or old friends I've rekindled friendships with have strictly been male.

I made a decision that I would do this as long as I am standing, as long as we are IHS, as long as we are not D. It is a single solitary decision that I made on my own after much internal debate, and it is what i am doing at this moment.

I would recommend thinking about making a deal with yourself that you can live with, if you decide to stand. Sort of setting your own self a boundary.

I am really struggling with these things.

I have 2 friends where we live (since we relocated just a couple years ago). One has been amazing, the other is a mutual friend that I have kept out of things. I have so much alone time now, I'm trying hard to occupy myself and do social things, work out, etc. But it does feel lonely.

I've joined a men's support group, but it almost feels like redoing DB 101. A lot of empathy when what I'm looking for is some 2x4's.

And the anger I feel lately towards my situation and my W is growing, not abating. I question how many more months I can make it, or whether there is any point when things feel so toxic right now.

I would not beat yourself up over a single interaction, U. You are aware enough to realize that it set off these alarm bells and it cause you enough concern to stop yourself and assess the situation.

It's never easy doing the hard work, checking yourself, when it seems like it would be so simple to go towards something new.

Again, I would think about what you want. And how long you are willing to wait.

I don't feel particularly guilty about the interaction. What bothers me was how easy it seemed, which is also dangerous.

My R was 21 yrs long. I am in no way shape.or form ready for something new - it would be a rebound and i would absolutely bring in the same issues. I do not want to go through this all over again. My plan (if you want to call it that) is tentatively to let myself breathe and be me for the next 4 or 5 yrs. That may change later, I dont know. But right now, it feels about right.

I am not in shape for anything new either. 4-5 years I don't know.

I have this crazy idea that if things don't work out with my W, I will approach life with zero outcome expectations. Friendships, romantic relationships, whatever. Expectations cause so many problems.

Sometimes when life gives us lemons, we have to eat our [censored] lemons

I love this, thank you!

I would look at it as a great ego-booster - nothing more. The universe let you have a break for a few moments - and you realized that you were worth something. You saw that you did have value. And you were able to recognize that.

Yep, that was it. I realized my W was considering D about 6 months ago, but in reality I have unloved and unvalued for roughly 2 years now. It was an ego boost to have some female attention. Maybe too much of a boost.

If you decide you are standing, take the win - and keep on your journey

I wrestle with this decision every day.