Divorce/WAW due to my infidelity Part 2

[crdcheck]

Yes, I have some of the NGS. I definitely have insecurities around being liked and I have always felt the need to make others happy so that I can be happy, too. I lose sleep when I know that someone doesn't like me (well, it depends on the person - the closer I am to someone the less I care).

So, good news - I have stepped back and I have adhered to the advice here (and cherry on top was anticipating what W was going to ask and getting ahead of it). D slept and W's last night and, after spending the early afternoon going to open houses with my brother we dropped by W's new place to pick her (D) up. First time I have been there. W invited me and my brother in, saying D wasn't ready yet. I just smiled and said "no thanks, we'll wait out here". Immediately picked up my conversation with my brother. W gave a weird look and went back inside; came back out 3-4 min later with D.

Tonight she is texting me to tell me that our dog (which she got as part of the separation - sharing her would be wrong for everyone) is in pain. I love that dog and hate to hear that she's hurting. At the same time, I'm not sure why W is telling me. I gave a few validating statements and W came back with "if you don't want to know I can not share...". Not sure what she's looking for, maybe that I would take the dog to the vet tomorrow so W doesn't have to deal with it (she's home with D3 as first day of school is Tues).

This is where I have to give credit to all of you. If I hadn't gotten your feedback I would certainly ask "hey, what can I do?" and/or offer to come by to see the dog. You all have given me confidence that this detachment is the best way. THANK YOU!

JOURNAL

Woke up to a quiet house, lots of echoes (since half of the furniture is gone). Kind of sad. Was nice to be able to lay in bed for a bit rather than having to run out. Did a long workout, decided to go to the cafe down the street rather than make my own breakfast. Grabbed my kindle (I find solo eating to be awkward so have to have something to occupy myself). Ended up sitting outside (weather was awesome), having a great brunch, server randomly struck up a conversation with me about what books we were both reading (she initiated, just being polite - still nice to be noticed). Then open houses with my brother (house for him - forgot to announce that I have a house under contract, YAY!). Leaving my new place to be a mystery for W. Actually, I'm not volunteering much of anything to her.

D3 and I washed my car (it's a "dad thing" she loves to do with me). She wanted to to eat dinner and stay at her mom's and, since we really haven't formally kicked off the custody arrangement, I said OK. Custody starts tomorrow. It was nice to spend time with her but it hurts that she prefers mom. My understanding is that it's typical for kids her age so the logical part of me knows not to be upset. But the emotional side of me is disappointed.

Picked up some replacement kitchen stuff on the way back (items that W took, have to get duplicates). Cleaned up what remains of the house. Basically kept myself occupied. Overall, feeling good. Yes, sad to be without my family. But happy to have plenty to do (forgot to mention the concert on Friday, lunch with D3 yesterday, dinner with parents yesterday), a path forward on my new house, and proud that I'm changing myself and following through on my commitment to go against my nature and follow the advice on this board.

[DaB35]

I tried the transparency thing when my W discovered my infidelity (online only). She was pleased but decided to go through with a divorce as she doesn't want to spend her time checking up on me.

It is hard because you want to prove everything to show you/they are changing and can be trusted. It can't happen immediately I suppose.

The waiting game is usually the only option, as frustrating as it seems.

[crdcheck]

Yeah, that's almost certainly one of the main components, that she believes that she'll never be able to trust me again. And I get it - I violated her trust deliberately and repeatedly. What's unfortunate is that one of the key variables in this she controls - I felt like I couldn't share with her, that she didn't care about me. If, since I came clean, she'd been able to open up, I really think that the fear and wariness would have dissipated.

So, yes, you (and Unchien, and Steve85, and Sandi...) are certainly right - we need time and space.

[unchien]

crdcheck - Yep, time and space. And handling the interactions with your W with care - validate, don't get triggered.

It does work even though it feels completely counter-intuitive. I'm pretty sure my M is heading for D. But after months of doing my best to DB (not perfectly), my W has started having brief moments of clarity. Not about wanting the M back, but understanding that I am not the devil in this situation.

Regarding rebuilding trust - I think trust is based on authenticity and integrity. Not on specific actions.

What I mean is, if you take an action with a goal of rebuilding trust, that is a controlling thing to do. For instance, granting your W access to your phone (I understand you are way past this point, illustrative example only). They will see that as a manipulative attempt, even though of course from your standpoint you are demonstrating you are trustworthy. Perhaps it is necessary to take action, but it will never be sufficient.

But if you instead can live authentically and with integrity - defining your values, and then executing your life according to those values, holding yourself to a high standard - that will shine through over time.

As weird as it sounds, this is where boundaries come into play. By not offering to take the dog to the vet, you are living according to the value that your W's problems are not your problems. You are a self-differentiated person, you will not let other people gray out those boundaries, your W, or anyone else. You look strong and in control of yourself. You look like someone who does not need to go find somebody else to feel complete. It is attractive.

In the short-term, these things like the dog vet will likely tick off your W. Take the long-term view. Whether she eventually trusts you or not, you are going to be so much happier with how you are living your life.

[crdcheck]

That trust thing is the worst. It's obvious that it's far easier to destroy than to build but yeah, I feel that there's literally nothing I can do. And W says that this is something she will never be able to get past so maybe D is the only answer. I really don't know.

Interesting (but predictable by you folks) moment today. W took the checkbook when she moved out and I needed to write a check for the earnest money for my new house (moving forward!). I texted last night and she told me that she would bring it to work. Reminder for those who haven't read the whole thread - we work at the same company. I texted her at 9 AM asking when I could pick it up and she told me that it was at her desk. I ran up to grab it and she was there (haven't seen her since Sunday BTW) but I didn't see the check book. She didn't notice me right away but, when she did, she seemed excited to see me. She grabbed the check book right away from her her purse and then started to tell me about how she thinks that she broke her toe the night before:

Me: Wow, that [censored], bet it really hurt
W: I was trying to keep D and the dog asleep, don't know my way around my new place (smiling)
Me: Well did you have X for dinner? (She broke her toe once after eating X... funny story involving too much alcohol and X, slipped in a mess she made herself)
W: Huh? No, hahahaha! Wow, so long ago. So, yeah, my toe really hurts, and I'm stuck carrying the dog up...
Me: Hey, I've got to lead a meeting right now, really have to run, bye!

All positive, all smiles (both of us), but no attempt on my part to extend, and it seems like she's really trying to be friends. So, proud to not be getting hopes up (and/or dashed). Probably could have skipped the reference to her previous broken toe.

Side note: noticed that her uncle viewed my profile on LinkedIn and that we were not connected. I'm pretty sure that we were at one point and I'll be honest - I was immediately angered. How petty and childish?!? Who told him?!? What are they saying about me??? All that went through my head in about 5 seconds. On the sixth second I asked myself what I was feeling (shame, anger, bitterness, a sense of being treated unfairly) and at about the 10th second I said that these were my feelings that I controlled, that we may have never been connected in the first place, and, even if we were, it says more about him than it does about me. Back to the five seconds, that was the "bad" me, thinking about defriending/unfollowing/unlinking/etc. all of them before I calmed myself down. Point is: it takes time and seems counterintuitive but detaching is making me a happier person. It does require deliberate action, though.

[unchien]

Side note: noticed that her uncle viewed my profile on LinkedIn and that we were not connected. I'm pretty sure that we were at one point and I'll be honest - I was immediately angered. How petty and childish?!? Who told him?!? What are they saying about me??? All that went through my head in about 5 seconds. On the sixth second I asked myself what I was feeling (shame, anger, bitterness, a sense of being treated unfairly) and at about the 10th second I said that these were my feelings that I controlled, that we may have never been connected in the first place, and, even if we were, it says more about him than it does about me. Back to the five seconds, that was the "bad" me, thinking about defriending/unfollowing/unlinking/etc. all of them before I calmed myself down. Point is: it takes time and seems counterintuitive but detaching is making me a happier person. It does require deliberate action, though.

^^^^^^^^^^^

THIS is everything. Those 10 seconds, and how you handle them, are what it's all about. I don't think there is any more valuable lesson to learn from these situations. I love that you posted this.

Emotional awareness is just like a muscle. The more you exercise it, the more it grows.

[crdcheck]

Thanks, unchien. Space has helped, too, I think - not having to analyze so many of these little things has freed me up.

So, I'm trying to be proactive and have a couple of questions:

1) If W asks why I'm not really engaging with her (not coming into her house, talking to her at work, etc.) what do I say?
2) And if she says that it feels like I want nothing to do with her (or something to the effect that it feels like I'm moving on) what do I say? I'm definitely open to reconciling but I don't want to pursue*.

*And I genuinely feel this way now. The "I'll do anything" part of me is gone (or at least dormant).

[LH19]

W: I need time and space to heal so I can move on with my life.

She knows you want to reconcile. That’s what makes this easier for her. It’s not until she thinks that you may not want to reconcile that she may consider reconciliation.

You need to change your mindset and start to think about what YOU would need from HER to consider reconciliation.

[AnotherStander]

1) If W asks why I'm not really engaging with her (not coming into her house, talking to her at work, etc.) what do I say?

LH said exactly what I was going to, so "ditto".

2) And if she says that it feels like I want nothing to do with her (or something to the effect that it feels like I'm moving on) what do I say?

Just nod and say "yes I can see how it might appear that way to you." That's answering her question while still being mysterious.

[unchien]

You need to change your mindset and start to think about what YOU would need from HER to consider reconciliation.

^^^^^^^
THIS

If you cannot identify the changes you would need to see, you are still fully attached to the rope. This mindset change is crucial to detachment.

Thanks, unchien. Space has helped, too, I think - not having to analyze so many of these little things has freed me up.

So, I'm trying to be proactive and have a couple of questions:

1) If W asks why I'm not really engaging with her (not coming into her house, talking to her at work, etc.) what do I say?
2) And if she says that it feels like I want nothing to do with her (or something to the effect that it feels like I'm moving on) what do I say? I'm definitely open to reconciling but I don't want to pursue*.

*And I genuinely feel this way now. The "I'll do anything" part of me is gone (or at least dormant).

crd - I am in exactly this same quandary.

I'm going to answer indirectly.

You just cannot control how your W will react to anything. Moreover, she is more than likely going to interpret whatever you do in the exact opposite way from what you intend.

Early in my sitch I was frustrated how my W was just finding scraps of evidence and interpreting them in the wrong way over and over and over. I felt like she was a rocket trying to launch into outer space to escape the gravitational pull of Earth (bear with me here for a minute ). The fuel she needed was anger and righteousness.

WAS'es have their doubts. They are not 100% determined and evil. They *need* to attach themselves to a certain narrative in order to live with their decisions. They need to believe it's not 100% their decision. It's pure human ego.

Heck we all need story (or narrative, or whatever you want to call it) to organize our lives with some purpose. The LBS has a story too. Much of the DB work we do is to detach from our story which has been overpowering our lives in an unhealthy way.

Now... if you are still with me... if you can develop compassion for the WAS mindset (without agreeing with it), it will help with detachment.

Going back to your questions.... you already got great advice above.