Persistent Endurance (Part 6)

[ovrrnbw]

C,

since she is married on paper, these are not R's she was in. Since at least one of them predated your separation and because you're married, they are indeed affairs. Don't validate them by calling them R's.

I’m conflicted between confronting her and moving forward with D, giving her the choice to commit or initiate D, or continue NC. I have to say that NC is the least appealing to me right now. I much prefer a decision and movement in either direction.

It's almost is you're saying you need something that many here have been saying you need: TIME & SPACE. How can you know what to do, how can you make this big decision based solely on emotion, without giving yourself time to think and heal and grow? How can you think and heal and grow without space from her? How can you get space from her when she comes over and tells you sob stories, feeds you breadcrumbs, and prances around on her horse?

I know you're thinking that it's a step in the wrong direction. But she doesn't care about you or how she hurts you, so you must protect yourself.

Plan some fun social events for Curtis this weekend. You need some time out with friends and no kids or W talk.

[curtis7]

What LH says: ACTIONS

Just start DB. Get your respect back Curtis.

Neff, I’m failing to comprehend how I am getting respect back by waiting for her to file for D. I understand that I’m gaining some respect by going NC, removing myself from the equation, and not participating in a triangular relationship.

You are a role model for your kids. Honor them.

Wouldn't I be honoring my kids more by ending this farce of a MR and showing them it’s more important to respect yourself.

[curtis7]

since she is married on paper, these are not R's she was in. Since at least one of them predated your separation and because you're married, they are indeed affairs. Don't validate them by calling them R's.

PAs with OM1, OM2, OM3 started before WW moved out in April. They are affairs. I wasn’t necessarily trying to validate them, but rather convey the WW belief system to justify why they feel these R’s (affairs) are acceptable while still legally married.

Plan some fun social events for Curtis this weekend. You need some time out with friends and no kids or W talk.

I’m taking S8 to a college football game this weekend. Large scale socialization. Then hurricane prep as there’s a chance I could be impacted. It will be interesting to see what she does with her horse.

[LH19]

C,

I think part of the problem is that you don’t understand DB. Wondering if you ever read the book? You can gain respect by not filing for D. Your number one problem is you let her treat you like a doormat. She comes to you when she wants something. Take care of horse, swim in pool, emotional support when friend dies. You read that as her softening when she’s just using you. DB says no snooping you snoop. DB say not pursuit you pursue. DB says no cake eating and you love stuffing down her throat. DB says actions not words you hang on every word she says.

DB is the way to go you should try it sometime.

[neffer]

What LH says: ACTIONS

Just start DB. Get your respect back Curtis.

Neff, I’m failing to comprehend how I am getting respect back by waiting for her to file for D. I understand that I’m gaining some respect by going NC, removing myself from the equation, and not participating in a triangular relationship.

You are a role model for your kids. Honor them.

Wouldn't I be honoring my kids more by ending this farce of a MR and showing them it’s more important to respect yourself.

Sure you would man...are you?

Face the future with no fear. Stand there for your kids.
As LH says, you don´t need to file to gain some respect back. You need to DB!

Do it man! Trust yourself!

(((Curtis)))

[AnotherStander]

It was an inexcusable way to go about it but I understand that she was done with me and done with the MR at BD and likely for a long time prior. I need to consider that she was emotionally D at BD, and that her reality was that we were D (paper MR only) and she was free to do what/who she wanted. My reality was that I’ve still considered us married this whole time. I need to come to grips with that and if I was in a new relationship with her or someone else, then I wouldn’t expect that person to disclose everything about their past, lovers, escapades, etc.

Curtis, this is exactly right. Now I am not defending her or saying it's "right" that she thinks those things, I absolutely do not. It is extremely dishonorable and for people who hold honor in high regard it is repulsive to see someone behave this way. Nevertheless this is exactly how WW's think. They think the M is over at BD and that they are single and free to do what they want. If you think about her behavior since BD, you'll see it is consistent with this idea.

I’m conflicted between confronting her and moving forward with D, giving her the choice to commit or initiate D, or continue NC.

I will say what I will always say at times like this- if you're not sure then wait a few weeks or even months. Don't do anything until you are sure it's what you want. Regarding confronting, do it if you must but please understand it's unlikely to change anything because as mentioned above, she thinks she's single anyway. If you're going to confront then just tell her you know and leave it at that. No R talk, no waiting for her to explain, no explaining to her how you know or anything of the sort.

I have to say that NC is the least appealing to me right now. I much prefer a decision and movement in either direction.

That's because you want to gain control back. You feel you've lost control and that you need to do something drastic to take control back again. That's not true though, NC is a way of taking control of your life again. It's saying "I am going to do what I want to do and leave you to your mess and not let it affect me anymore." You should never, ever consider filing for D without a long period of NC (or minimal C).

[curtis7]

That's because you want to gain control back. You feel you've lost control and that you need to do something drastic to take control back again. That's not true though, NC is a way of taking control of your life again. It's saying "I am going to do what I want to do and leave you to your mess and not let it affect me anymore." You should never, ever consider filing for D without a long period of NC (or minimal C).

Well, my WW must not agree about when to file for D. Her L sent her the entire dissolution package today to populate. I know I can’t control whether she files or not. What’s the recommended advice knowing it’s coming, continue with NC and wait for it to arrive?

[LH19]

Yes

[sandi2]

I need to consider that she was emotionally D at BD, and that her reality was that we were D (paper MR only) and she was free to do what/who she wanted. My reality was that I’ve still considered us married this whole time. I need to come to grips with that and if I was in a new relationship with her or someone else, then I wouldn’t expect that person to disclose everything about their past, lovers, escapades, etc. Sure, those may come up at some point, but full disclosure up front would not be a requirement to start a new relationship.

What?!


This is an example of your NGS and just how little respect you have for yourself. We've tried to tell you her viewpoint, based on what we've learned about the wayward W.....but that doesn't mean it was reality or that you should condone her wayward mentality.....nor, sweep it under the rug (should there be a new R). You will not have a new R with her if it's built on lies, deceit, and secrets. So, you think you would be in the wrong to expect her to be up front with you about her affairs? Man oh man! At what point do you think full disclosure would be a requirement to start a new relationship? IMHO, I would want full disclosure before I committed the second time around.

Even if you married another woman, and if she had slept with....say....... your best friend, your boss, or a relative, you wouldn't expect her to disclose that information before you married her? Perhaps she was legally free to sleep with anyone she chose, but ethically, would you not want her to respect you enough to let you hear it from her? If I was going to marry someone, I'd want to know about their past, lovers, and escapades. (I'm not talking about disclosing the dirty details of them having sex).

What I really wanted to rebuild trust was confidence that the other R’s were over and a feeling of safety and security that they would never happen again.

The burden of rebuilding trust, IMHO, is mainly on the person who's guilty of betrayal. It's up to her to show that she can be trusted again, after violating it. Now I realize that trust is like "faith" and it's up to you, but when it comes to reconciliation and/or a new relationship with that same person, I believe they should make amends before you just jump in trusting again. See, from the get-go you have tried to make allowances and put her with you in the same shoe, but it didn't work b/c she doesn't want what you want. She doesn't feel what you feel. She doesn't honor what you honor.

Not rehashing details about the past.

It's funny that you make this statement, b/c you are the one who is always wanting to have a R talk, or confront her. Maybe it wasn't to rehash the past, but you do a lot of talking about what you want. I get the feeling that you think telling her about this great new marriage would convince her to come back home. The only thing that will convince her to join you in making a new MR is for her to see you moving forward without her.

I wanted it to be a time to move forward. I wanted to have more intimacy with her than we had before, so there wouldn’t need to be secrets and we could share our feelings, concerns, and expectations.

These are dreams, not actions.

I wanted us to be able to be vulnerable around each other

Stop right there, b/c I think you used this vulnerable word in past posts. Let's look that word up in the dictionary.
1) susceptible to physical or emotional attack or harm; 2) (of a person) in need of special care, support, or protection because of age, disability, or risk of abuse or neglect.

IMHO, women don't want a vulnerable man for her husband. She wants him to be the strong one, not the vulnerable one in the relationship. Maybe that is something you need to examine about the past. It's the woman who looks to her H for protection and leadership. Perhaps she didn't get that vibe from you, b/c you showed weakness and she couldn't lean on your strength.

and feel safe that we are not judging but rather supportive and understanding.

If I was the WW and heard you present this talk, I would immediately recognize you speaking for both of us. You are trying to paint the glowing picture of a perfect relationship, hoping to lasso her and pull her back. It is heavy pursuing words, even if you think you are simply describing what "you" want.

I’m conflicted between confronting her and moving forward with D, giving her the choice to commit or initiate D, or continue NC.

See? There you go again, wanting to confront (talk) and giving her the choice to commit or initiate D. How many times will it take telling you this plan doesn't work, before you accept that it really doesn't work? You don't tell a WW to commit or initiate D. She has already proven she doesn't want to commit, and she's not initiating D b/c she benefits from being Mrs. Curtis.

[curtis7]

Venting...S8 and I were getting ready to head out to a football game and WW is there prepping the barn for the hurricane. I noticed she brought the ladder over from her place and I mentioned to S8 that I hope she leaves it so I can clean out the gutters.

Of course, S8 brings it up.

S8: “Dad needs the ladder to clean the gutters.”

WW: “Dad could have just asked me instead of using our son as the messenger, but dad won't talk to me.”

LBH: “What did you say? Don’t talk to me like that, I didn’t ask him to say anything about the ladder.”

WW: “Your just mad because you’re not getting your way.”

LBH: “Not getting my way? Am I getting my way when you go to OM3’s city?”

Probably should have bit my lip, but it was a truth dart. This NC seems to really be pissing her off. She doesn’t like me not being available to her when she pleases. Maybe I should have not responded or said something like there are consequences for your choices.

Gosh darn it!!! I think she’s trying to ruin my night. Not going to happen. S8 and I will have a blast.