Summary to date: W was unhappy in 2018 and probably a few years earlier about her lack of career advancement, responsibilities of being a mother and wife, and lack of connection in our MR. She became involved in an EA with a co-worker (OM1) in August. She was going to an IC without my knowledge and came to the determination that I was the cause of her unhappiness. BD and IHS in November. I made all of the classic mistakes of begging, pleading, doing all the chores (super husband), etc. She became obsessed with her physical appearance. Spending money on facial treatments, anti-aging creams, manicures, pedicures, etc. EA with OM1 became a PA. Then, she was seduced by a 25 year old pickup artist (OM2) at a downtown bar and had a PA a couple weeks later which evolved into a limerant relationship. W went deeply underground with her smartphone when I found out and confronted. W met another low-life (OM3) in March on an online dating app and is still in an ongoing PA with him while cycling back to OM2 as desired. She has experienced the highest of highs when OM contacts her and the lowest of lows when ignored. She was full blown GGW and cycling between at least 5 OM. Her current favorites are OM2 and OM3. W has distanced herself from anyone of strong moral character and primarily interacts with a recently divorced woman that became her BFF last year. W bought her own house and moved out in early April. We have arranged 50/50 custody of our kids, S8 and D5, rotating every few days.
I would characterize myself as experiencing PTSD symptoms after BD/PA discovery for about 4 months. Way too much pursuit, pressure, and R talk. I became obsessed with snooping and trying to identify and over-analyze everything that went wrong in our MR that led us to this state. In doing so, I pushed her farther and farther away. I've heard just about every WW catch phrase from her along with way. She has re-written our MR history and focuses on all the negatives. I've been doing a much better job of GAL and detaching since late February. Contact has been like a business relationship, mostly limited to co-parenting and logistics. I confronted her in early May about no longer living in an open marriage. Her response was basically laughter and she said if you want a divorce, then she's all for it. That night she sent me an email requesting that I gather all of my financial records and decide what items I want to keep by the end of May. She hasn't mentioned it since but she met with a L at the end of August to seemingly start the process.
The EAs/PAs with multiple OM continue. When we do interact, she generally treats me nice. I am securely in the friend zone as I’ve allowed her to cake eat this entire time with her horse at our marital home. I am living in limbo which [censored], but I’m having a great time with my kids when they are with me. Also getting out doing activities I enjoy and spending time with friends.
At the end of July, I was ready to confront her on the A’s and file for D. Then, the H of a good friend of hers died in a motorcycle accident. This pushed my W into a state of deep reflection and for about 3 days I could see the girl I used to be married to. Unfortunately, that was short lived and she quickly reverted back to her WW lifestyle and resumed contact with OM3 along with OM2 occasionally. At that time, I asked her to attend Retrouvaille to say I tried everything and shockingly she said yes. However, she recently inadvertently sent me a text about OM3 that was intended for divorced BFF. I went full NC for 3 days after the text. Then things pretty much blew up again on a call about the NC where I said as long as she’s in contact with OM I need to limit contact with her as it only relates to the kids.
W is conflicted by guilt she feels from friends and family that think what she’s doing is wrong and her feelings of what she wants for herself. I’m sensing my MR is coming to and end in the next month or so with one of us filing for D.
Me:41 W:39 S:9 D:6 T:20 M:16 PA:8/22/18, BD:11/6/18 PA discovery & IHS:12/3/18, W moves:4/2/19 R’ville:9/27/19, I give D docs:3/1/20 W home:4/5/20 (due to CV-19), W NC w/OM:4/13/20 6/1/20
Curtis. Isn't it amazing how they refuse to take accountability or responsibility for the consequences and outcomes due to their decisions and actions? She has had to distance herself from family and friends of moral standards that are judging her and slut shaming her for her actions. She even says herself, despite her clearly knowing that you know that there are 3 other men, she attempts to falsely and arrogantly justify her actions, and falsely socially lift herself up on a social pedestal thus contradicting herself by saying "There are not other men, don't make me out to be a f'in whore." OM3 is giving her parenting advice, is treating her poorly, and she is even rebelling to some degree against him. (Most likely for him giving her unsolicited advise on parenting, which feels like another form of control to her.) But is still considering him an option, even though she contradicts herself that it won't work because he is two hours away. Based off her divorced BFF H and BFF's experience and validation of seeing herself, her feelings, and circumstances in her BFF, she is comparing him to you as being controlling because you set clear, good and healthy boundaries as well as responsibility since she fired you as her H as far as the Horse and the property is concerned.
IHC, exactly, you hit the nail on the head. Could not have said any of this better myself. Justification of her WW behavior, gaslighting/lies to me, trying to maintain good standing in social opinion, upset with OM3 for giving parenting advice when he has never met our kids, and still blaming me for most everything that isn’t going the way she likes in life. It’s appalling and pure selfishness.
Originally Posted by IHCLACS
Her opinion of your changes is again re-writing of marital history, and after so many years of "her knowing you, your behaviors, and habits" she is convinced that your attempts to change, or lack of change is only to manipulate them back into a relationship or M. They are convinced because of their experiences over long periods of time and past events. Right, wrong, good, bad, or indifferent. The irony of this is that they themselves do not realize that they have changed too. They took their vows based on their feelings on their wedding day, and not on actual principles or values.
They can’t consider the possibility that the LBS finally woke up when thrown into crisis at BD. Finally started listening and becoming self-aware of our own shortcomings prompting a lasting desire to permanently change for ourselves and for the best interest of our partner. It seems the WW mindset also believes that feelings in this moment are and forever will be. They refuse to consider the possibility that positive feelings could return for the LBS. Even though they existed previously, it violates their conclusion to consider that those feelings could return if they choose to love.
Originally Posted by IHCLACS
They have bought the narrative from validation from outside sources and influences, such as family members, books, divorced BFF, IC, D attorney, etc. They seek people similar to how they ae currently feeling. Validation I've noticed, although I am poor at it, I've realized something about it. It coincides with confidence. Confidence of the WAW to leave the M based on their own self worth, and their worth of the opinion of their social peers, (which is underlyingly and probably more important to them then then the opinion of themselves.) They have this confidence to leave because they are unhappy, and don't want to feel or be controlled, submissive, or be obedient to their husband, hence the term "Wayward" They have no respect for you because of your behaviors, but also if you look carefully to their actions and not their words, they have no respect or worth for themselves. (The same goes for us too.) I can confidently state this as a solid opinion because everyone seems to be looking for their happiness and purpose outside of themselves, rather than within. Yes we all want freedom, experiences, novelty, purpose, and goal achievements. But unless we do the work and they as well on ourselves we will all keep repeating the same patterns in our future relationships.
They seek reassurance from sources that boost their confidence that they are making the right decisions, without really examining the sources, their morals, principles, or values. Validation without the solid principles or morals can lead someone astray in the long term. Validation is a two way street I've noticed that needs to be handled delicately. You want to in a sense acknowledge their feelings without coming across as disingenuous, but not actually cement their feelings as fact, with you assuming the accountability and responsibility of their feelings for why they think you did XY and Z wrong from past experiences. By all means take accountability to correct those things as your 180's but do not let your WW make you take the entire blame for the M failure. (Most likely they're going to take as little accountability as possible and hold you responsible for the failure because it's all about them right now, playing victim status to the M while at the same time justifying their irresponsible behavior.)
They're going to repeat these mistakes over and over again looking for confidence in another person in a relationship, slowly undermine the other person's confidence in the R, and the other person, and then start taking them apart once the honeymoon phase ends, never being satisfied and then they are going to go to the next person, and the next person and so on.
Yes, the enablers and sympathizers feed their arrogance and reinforce that they are making the right decisions to find happiness for themselves. My W had excellent morals, much better than mine up until the last year. I suppose they just weren’t strong enough and once they didn’t align with her actions and submission to temptation and lust, they were rapidly discarded. I do feel sorry for her in this regard. I anticipate she will have deep shame and regret in the future over this period of her life when she finally matures emotionally and is able to cope with the reality of her life.
Originally Posted by IHCLACS
The next time you have a discussion with WW about anything other than logistics or kids, D procedure, or just anything casual in passing, Especially if its about OM1, OM2 or OM3 SHUT IT DOWN, HANGUP OR WALK AWAY. You are not her therapist, and it is well past the point of no return have you listening to her other than for a business transaction, because that's all she used to treating you as is a business transaction between the division of all your stuff, the divorce papers, and the kids. I think you're doing a hell of a job though putting things into action as far as making changes, a lot better than I am. You are doing a good job. Just make sure to keep your self-respect intact.
I’m with you on this. I’ve heard enough lies. Going dark as possible with kids is my goal. We’ll see how long I can keep it up.
Me:41 W:39 S:9 D:6 T:20 M:16 PA:8/22/18, BD:11/6/18 PA discovery & IHS:12/3/18, W moves:4/2/19 R’ville:9/27/19, I give D docs:3/1/20 W home:4/5/20 (due to CV-19), W NC w/OM:4/13/20 6/1/20
Interesting that with OM3 she can't have her way with and he pisses her off and yet she's sleeping with him and then there is her husband and she says "jump" and he says "how high" and she has no respect or attraction to him.
Yeah, I see the push-pull, treat them like garbage, ignore, keep them wanting more attraction techniques at the start of a relationship. That is not sustainable in a long-term MR, IMO. That behavior needs to be replaced with a deeper love and intimacy that can withstand decades of ups and downs.
I do agree that the LBH can’t put the WW on a pedestal and bend over backwards to her requests. That will not earn her respect. Most words and actions are received negatively by the WW during an active affair. Better to back off, stop pursuit, and maintain self-respect than to chase a cheater.
Me:41 W:39 S:9 D:6 T:20 M:16 PA:8/22/18, BD:11/6/18 PA discovery & IHS:12/3/18, W moves:4/2/19 R’ville:9/27/19, I give D docs:3/1/20 W home:4/5/20 (due to CV-19), W NC w/OM:4/13/20 6/1/20
I’m done. I am going to confront her. I am no longer waiting for her in limbo.
My script is ready and I have some paperwork to deliver to her on dividing assets.
I have reached the point where I need to stand up for what I believe is right. I will no longer remain in a MR that is defiled.
We will both live with the consequences. My kids will know I fought for her, but now it’s time for me to respect myself.
Me:41 W:39 S:9 D:6 T:20 M:16 PA:8/22/18, BD:11/6/18 PA discovery & IHS:12/3/18, W moves:4/2/19 R’ville:9/27/19, I give D docs:3/1/20 W home:4/5/20 (due to CV-19), W NC w/OM:4/13/20 6/1/20
you've never stopped snooping. You've never given her or yourself space. Don't confront her. Instead, let her go. You've had the death grip around her since day one. Let her go.
In her mind you aren't in a "MR". In the practical sense she is right. On paper you are right. Why not get rid of the horse and keep her out of your house and out of your life for the time being?
This confrontation is going to lead to further lack of respect.
This last post is pure emotion. I know you're hurting. I've been there. Sorry Curtis.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
you've never stopped snooping. You've never given her or yourself space. Don't confront her. Instead, let her go. You've had the death grip around her since day one. Let her go.
In her mind you aren't in a "MR". In the practical sense she is right. On paper you are right. Why not get rid of the horse and keep her out of your house and out of your life for the time being?
This confrontation is going to lead to further lack of respect.
This last post is pure emotion. I know you're hurting. I've been there. Sorry Curtis.
Ovr, you’re right, the post was made late last night after discovering she was with OM3 again. It was my emotional, impulsive response to being over this and no longer tolerating the disrespect of my MR. Living in limbo while she’s out gallivanting is tearing me apart. I know it’s because I’m snooping. If I stopped, then I wouldn’t feel this type of pain. My mind dwells so often on how I just want this all to be over.
Just yesterday I was contemplating why I was so disappointed when she inadvertently sent me the text about OM3. I came to a similar conclusion as you stated that she believes we are not in a MR. I was hurt when I received the text because I thought we were rebuilding trust and I was trying to give her the benefit of the doubt that the other R’s had ended when she agreed to attend Retrouvaille weekend. I now realize that I had an expectation and that her and I have two different realities.
It was an inexcusable way to go about it but I understand that she was done with me and done with the MR at BD and likely for a long time prior. I need to consider that she was emotionally D at BD, and that her reality was that we were D (paper MR only) and she was free to do what/who she wanted. My reality was that I’ve still considered us married this whole time. I need to come to grips with that and if I was in a new relationship with her or someone else, then I wouldn’t expect that person to disclose everything about their past, lovers, escapades, etc. Sure, those may come up at some point, but full disclosure up front would not be a requirement to start a new relationship.
What I really wanted to rebuild trust was confidence that the other R’s were over and a feeling of safety and security that they would never happen again. Not rehashing details about the past. I wanted it to be a time to move forward. I wanted to have more intimacy with her than we had before, so there wouldn’t need to be secrets and we could share our feelings, concerns, and expectations. I wanted us to be able to be vulnerable around each other and feel safe that we are not judging but rather supportive and understanding. My wants are a long way off and may never come to fruition.
I’m conflicted between confronting her and moving forward with D, giving her the choice to commit or initiate D, or continue NC. I have to say that NC is the least appealing to me right now. I much prefer a decision and movement in either direction.
Me:41 W:39 S:9 D:6 T:20 M:16 PA:8/22/18, BD:11/6/18 PA discovery & IHS:12/3/18, W moves:4/2/19 R’ville:9/27/19, I give D docs:3/1/20 W home:4/5/20 (due to CV-19), W NC w/OM:4/13/20 6/1/20
