I have seen many times on here and in real life that the last ditch effort as a couple is to buy a new house and in essence start over. Once the newness of the house wares off it is back to where you left off.
I understand you may have some guilt but you did everything you could to make up for it. I have heard it been said before that the most important thing in a marriage is forgiveness.
If you haven't already go back and read Accuray's early threads. His W relapsed after a lengthy reconciliation after her first EA.
LH, I do not think we are back where we left off. I am getting ready to write a LONG update that will address this. But I will certainly be looking for Accuray's threads.
Last edited by Steve85; 08/30/1901:15 PM.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Steve, sorry I've been MIA the past couple of days. I've had your sitch on my heart and have been in prayer about it. Not that ending a marriage is easy for anyone, but I think your spiritual commitments makes it very difficult to simply say, "That's it, I'm outta here". In other words, your identity is enmeshed with your religious beliefs and your position in your local congregation. I think you & W have good reputations and influence as Christians among your friends, community, and church. I may be wrong here, but I think you consider how a D would not only affect your child, but the church members who see you as an example/leader. You don't want to disappoint them or cause a weaker member to lose hope in their own life. Although I wore different shoes, I just want you to know that I empathize with you considering all the areas of your life that would be affected if your M ended. ((((hugs))))
Being the man that you are, I feel you wanted to fix the marital problems by fixing yourself......and you worked very hard on your 180's. The board encourages members to focus on themselves and fix the one person they control……which, of course, is himself. To be deeply honest, I felt you tried to take on her part of the responsibility, or else you thought the backslide was due to your work or lack thereof. Throughout your threads, you would make statements that implied (to me) that if she slipped, it would be your fault. You had to work harder & harder, which placed took a toll on you physically and emotionally. Perhaps subconsciously you were trying to do her work, too. That’s understandable, but each spouse has their separate work to do. As a “reformed” WW, I will say that she needs to get her heart right with God, first. She can look the part of a Christian wife and hard working church member, but only God knows her heart and what goes on in secret.
When you two went to the retreat and she really struggled with the religious part near the end, it appeared (to me) that she had some spiritual rebellion toward the Christian life, the scripture, or God. As you know, waywardness is based on lack of respect, resentment, and rebellion. These feelings can be held in the heart for a long time, and some people can play the part of a loving spouse or active church member……….but their heart does not match up with their secret desires or fantasy. IMHO, a big part of the WW’s work is coming to terms with God, seeking His forgiveness, experiencing true humility and remorse. Forgiving her H for everything in the previous years, and humbly apologizing to him for the pain she has caused him and the trust she has destroyed.
There needs to be a plan implemented for the WW. And let me make something perfectly clear. This is about her betrayal of trust……..not the H. Some H’s rush to give over his passwords, and be transparent with his phone, etc. I don’t agree with that move at this point, b/c this can easily put him on the same level as the betrayer, and this should be about the WW’s accountability. She is the one who broke his trust, and she needs to atone for it. She will need to be transparent until she has completely gone through withdrawals and has no desire/temptation to resume former behavior patterns.
As part of the reconciliation agreement, the WW should be given the opportunity to agree that her H can look at her messages/activity anytime he chooses. It is an agreement she makes that has no time line. If she balks, cries freedom of privacy, etc., then she’s still planning to be deceitful. This is her opportunity to show her H that she is being honest and faithful in her activities. Therefore, the H can look at her computer/phone activity two years, or more, down the road, just to make sure she is not slipping. She should not know when he’s going to check. At first, she will be on her toes, and if/when she backslides, she’ll delete everything. But eventually, she’ll get careless b/c she thinks he isn’t checking. Bottom line about transparency is this: If she really wants to redeem herself, then she will do whatever work necessary to save her M.
Steve, when you first joined the board, you were concerned that your W was being influenced by the anti-depressant meds her doctor continued to prescribe. I am used to seeing newcomers blame wayward behavior on everything from MLC to a personality disorder. Anyway, I have recently read how many people are reporting that their spouse no longer feels in love with them, and that their spouse has been on anti-depressants long term. Ironically, I was taking Zoloft at the time I went through my period of craziness. However, I had not been taking it long term. I was depressed, and seeing several doctors trying to get help for Fibromyalgia. One doctor had me on four medications included anti-depressants. Then the next doctor took me off all of it---cold turkey. This has been known to cause suicide in people! So, needless to say, I was a mess! I would not blame my EA on the medication, b/c I felt that was a cheap excuse to not take ownership for my actions. I have talked to a couple of women IRL who were on Zoloft and admitted it killed their sex drive. I think that’s the most common complaint I’ve heard and read about, was no interest in sex.
I went to a hormone balancing specialist and he told me the test showed I was a train wreck. My sex hormones flat lined, according to him. I hadn’t been on Zoloft for quite some time, but was still taking AD’s. I still maintain my belief in how waywardness begins in the mind, and finally acts out. I had stored a lot of resentment and lack of respect long before I took medication. In my case, the way the doctors jerked me back & forth, going from 4 AD’s to zero with no weaning period probably affected my emotional frame of mind. I had never experienced panic attacks until I went through all the prescription changes. I still don’t think it had a direct influence on me having an EA. It may have compounded some of my feelings, IDK, but I still made decisions from a free volition.
I wish your W would see another doctor, maybe a hormone balancing specialist and/or a psychiatrist. Even if she slowly weaned off Zoloft, it needs to be under a doctor’s care. I think your W has intimacy issues or something that traces back to her childhood experiences or FOO. With her going from zero to 100 and back to nearly zero in the bedroom, it sounds as if her hormones could be in a mess (or she was faking). However, I maintain that a woman’s mind determines a lot of her sex drive. The W needs emotional intimacy more than the physical (IMHO). Another reason for therapy is to understand/address why she has such a strong need for attention/admiration/flirtation/sexting from a man who is not her H. She needs to see the snares and how to overcome this weakness in her life. She probably sees it as a "need", but it is going to destroy the MR, if it is not resolved.
Anyway, this time around needs to be a little different, don’t you agree? IMHO, you were trying to satisfy her appetite and maybe keep her distracted with the new home. However, she is not fulfilled being a homemaker. She wants to sing. She wants her talent to be recognized and admired. What type of songs is she singing on the app? Church hymns, country, pop? I think her fantasy is pretending she is a famous singer with fans who adore her. She is isolating herself more & more from her real world and escaping into her fantasy. The OM is not the problem. She doesn't care about him. She just wants the adoration for her talent. This singing app provides that feedback for her, but just like the gaming, it provides other things, also.
You said something about being afraid of taking the singing app away from her b/c she has given up so much already. I'd say that is a good reason for her to be therapy. And, I would add more about your concern here, but I've already written a book, so I'm going to close for now. I hope you won't stay away from the board too long. Maybe cut back a little, but we want to hear how things are going for you. Okay?
(((hugs)))
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Hey Steve, hope the day of roller coasters is awesome. I'm 50 and I still love the adrenaline rush of speed. I have not been on here in a while but skimmed through your recent.
Totally suc*s, but I have been thinking too what I would do if my W had a relapse and I said I would know how to deal with it this time. The last A she had, the only way it stopped was because I dropped the rope, I finally found myself after 7 months of DB'ing and living with a stranger that had no concern what she was doing to me or our family.
My sitch is much better and different but I don't think I have picked the rope back up, not sure if I ever will. I know I am happy because my family is not in a toxic sitch and I still enjoy being with my W but I don't think it will ever be the same or at a place that we will both be comfortable again. She doesn't think I will ever trust her again and she doesn't believe I have forgiven her for the amount of hurt that she has caused.
The one thing you and everyone pounded into me during my sitch was respect...respect...respect...respect. A lot of my passive aggressive actions, the nice guy routine, etc are no longer in my relationship. I am open, honest, caring and give honest advice when needed about actions and feelings. I do not hold anything in anymore and I can do it without emotion. These 180s have gotten me the respect that I have needed to be a confident man again.
We also laid boundaries, if those get crossed we are not respected. What your W has been doing is crossing that line again. I will not tolerate that anymore if my W decides to relapse. I pretty much used a year of my life to find myself and unfortunately missed out on a good bit of my S15s year as well being in a frenzy. At this stage of our lives I think we both deserve a better ride.
H-50 W-48 T-19 M -18 S23, S14 BD - 5/9/2018 OM discovered 5/10/2018
In house sep - 8/18/2018 Rope drop 2/15/2019 R'ing since 3/15/2019
I realized I told you a lot about my sitch but my point was if you set those boundaries....what are the consequences if she crosses them this time...the 3rd time?
H-50 W-48 T-19 M -18 S23, S14 BD - 5/9/2018 OM discovered 5/10/2018
In house sep - 8/18/2018 Rope drop 2/15/2019 R'ing since 3/15/2019
I'm glad you're getting out and doing something fun today. Sometimes, you just need a break from it all and rollercoasters are a good thing!
The rollercoasters were a blast!! Weather was perfect. Crowds were not bad due to it being a midweek day and late summer. One small downer, is my buddy, who is a little older than I am, doesn't seem to be handling the rides like he did when he was younger. Feel bad for him, but I did notice that there were very few people much older than us on the rides. Makes you wonder if rollercoasters are younger person thing.
The problem: during down moments all I could think about was my W. I missed her immensely. Last year, a year ago tomorrow as a matter of fact, we went as a family and one of my D's friends. Even though my W doesn't ride a lot, it was an awesome day. Just the two of us. No TV. We had our phones but spent very little time on them. And I couldn't help but think about that trip and how in-tune we were and connected. As we would pass things in the park I would remember that trip last year, and think of her. "We sat there and talked about X." "We ate lunch there." "I remember her sitting there while I rode this ride." Things like that.
One thing that kept nagging at me when I would think about her was: WHY? In her 2005 EA I could see how I allowed it to happen. (NOTE: While I understand that the LBS has some culpability in their WAS wanting to walkaway, it doesn't justify the WAS' actions. Please do not think I am excusing her EAs.) I could understand how a new person could seem so desirable considering how badly I was behaving. Absent. Surly. Disconnected. Selfish.
Then in Dec. 2017, when I caught her chatting to the guy from the singing app (she denies this was an EA by the way, says he didn't really mean anything to her. That she was just done with the marriage at that point and wasn't really interested in a new relationship.
But this time just doesn't make sense. We've been a team. We've been so connected. We've been so in-tune!! It has been the relationship we both always wanted to be. So it just didn't make sense. Since Tuesday night I've been giving her space. But when I got home last night, she was still awake, and I just had to know. So I broke DB rules and asked her: Why.
I should qualify all of this that I was not sad, mad, or anything. I remained even throughout, friendly even. It was a good talk. She claims she doesn't know what happened. That they played the game. He was flirty. That he had a similar sense of humor to hers. At some point she told him she didn't even know what he looked like. His profile had no picture. He asked her to give him her email address. She said no, I am not giving you my email address. The next time they played after chatting back and forth, she gave it him. This was about 3 weeks ago (according to her). She says that she doesn't know why, that she had several guys over the last year and a half as her for contact info and told them no. She would tell them all she was married, many said "so am I".
She didn't know why this guy was different. That he came from a troubled youth (her youth was troubled too). That he is married to a woman with lots of health problems. That he was a sex-starved husband. She said she identified him with me, because she felt she was similar to his W, minus the health problems. I think some of this was rewriting of current history. Certainly 2 years ago we had a SSM, but our sex life has been pretty good, much more frequent, and the quality of each instance was way up. But this seemed to be a point she related with him on, even if it was more with his W than him. His W didn't like him playing the game, so he would wait until she went to bed.
Many times they would just play the game. Sometimes they would message while playing. Sometimes it swerved into the flirty and inappropriate. It wasn't every night since some nights he couldn't get on. Obviously some of her answers are typical WAS stuff: she wasn't going anywhere, neither of them were interested in leaving their marriage, it wasn't as often as I think it was, most of the time it was joking and/or telling each other about their lives. She still played the game against strangers, and other friends. It hadn't consumed her life in anyway.
I still am not sure why. I made it clear this one was on her. She claimed that her personality gets in the way and it takes over and she gets overly flirty and sometimes the other person reads too much into it. She usually shuts it down but not this time. For some reason. I tried to explain I doubt it was as innocent from his perspective. She tried to poo-poo that notion, but I think most of us men know how easy it is to get caught up by infatuation for an attractive woman. I know he lives in another country, but she admitted he has an up-to-date passport. I have no doubt that a "visit" was firmly in the back of his mind. Supposedly the passport discussion was "innocent" but this is where I remember to believe nothing she says.
The conversation did turn to my "checking up on" her. She said that it upset her to know that I occasionally had done that, but she understood why. Still she said it upset her. She seems to insist no matter what I was doing or who I was doing it with, she would not snoop or spy on me. I FIRMLY do not believe this. I said "what if I was in an actual physical affair, you wouldn't want to get to the bottom of it?" She then backed down and said that a PA would be different. And while she is right, I think she deep down knows that EAs are no more justified than PAs. Though she denies that this incident and the one in Dec. 2017 were not EAs, but admits the one in 2005 was.
I reiterated that checking up on her, and how I did it, simply doesn't matter, what matters was that there was something to find. She understood that and even agreed to it. She said the snooping upsets her but she knows it shouldn't.
The conversation was very good. We even laughed and joked at a couple of points. Neither of us got upset. She insists that she wants to stay together, she is willing to do what it takes to do that, but understands if she lost that right. LH, this is why I say we aren't back to where we were. in Dec 2017/beginning of 2018 she had no desire to remain with me and was not willing to do anything to work on things. This time she is wanting to do what ever she can to fix things.
She has shared all of her passwords, she has disavowed all technology. She has put her tablet away, let the battery die. She only uses her phone text church friends, and family. Deleted all apps off of it. And she has moved to occupying her time with word searches and crossword puzzles on paper. I do not think this is sustainable long-term. We live in a digital world and I don't think she can completely unplug.
So for now we have to try to rebuild trust. She still seems to be a little quieter than normal, but it is a little better than it was Wednesday. I think she saw what she stood to lose. I talked pretty firmly on Tuesday night. Made it clear I was uninterested in ever continuing to wonder what she was up to with who. She seems intent on making sure I have nothing to wonder about. I just question the long-term viability of the current plan. At some point we need to be able to trust each other the way we did before. And that is going to take more than just sharing passwords and staying away from technology.
So I am not going to give up on the idea of IC and eventually MC again. But I am done discussing anything about this, it is time to put it behind us.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I am going to be frank here - sounds like she's on a timeout. The thing about timeouts is that, they don't work.
You can't just put this behind you. This is a recurring pattern, whether or not she labels them as EAs or not. You have to address this now, whether through counseling or something else.
Steve, sorry I've been MIA the past couple of days. I've had your sitch on my heart and have been in prayer about it. Not that ending a marriage is easy for anyone, but I think your spiritual commitments makes it very difficult to simply say, "That's it, I'm outta here". In other words, your identity is enmeshed with your religious beliefs and your position in your local congregation. I think you & W have good reputations and influence as Christians among your friends, community, and church. I may be wrong here, but I think you consider how a D would not only affect your child, but the church members who see you as an example/leader. You don't want to disappoint them or cause a weaker member to lose hope in their own life. Although I wore different shoes, I just want you to know that I empathize with you considering all the areas of your life that would be affected if your M ended. ((((hugs))))
Being the man that you are, I feel you wanted to fix the marital problems by fixing yourself......and you worked very hard on your 180's. The board encourages members to focus on themselves and fix the one person they control……which, of course, is himself. To be deeply honest, I felt you tried to take on her part of the responsibility, or else you thought the backslide was due to your work or lack thereof. Throughout your threads, you would make statements that implied (to me) that if she slipped, it would be your fault. You had to work harder & harder, which placed took a toll on you physically and emotionally. Perhaps subconsciously you were trying to do her work, too. That’s understandable, but each spouse has their separate work to do. As a “reformed” WW, I will say that she needs to get her heart right with God, first. She can look the part of a Christian wife and hard working church member, but only God knows her heart and what goes on in secret.
When you two went to the retreat and she really struggled with the religious part near the end, it appeared (to me) that she had some spiritual rebellion toward the Christian life, the scripture, or God. As you know, waywardness is based on lack of respect, resentment, and rebellion. These feelings can be held in the heart for a long time, and some people can play the part of a loving spouse or active church member……….but their heart does not match up with their secret desires or fantasy. IMHO, a big part of the WW’s work is coming to terms with God, seeking His forgiveness, experiencing true humility and remorse. Forgiving her H for everything in the previous years, and humbly apologizing to him for the pain she has caused him and the trust she has destroyed.
There needs to be a plan implemented for the WW. And let me make something perfectly clear. This is about her betrayal of trust……..not the H. Some H’s rush to give over his passwords, and be transparent with his phone, etc. I don’t agree with that move at this point, b/c this can easily put him on the same level as the betrayer, and this should be about the WW’s accountability. She is the one who broke his trust, and she needs to atone for it. She will need to be transparent until she has completely gone through withdrawals and has no desire/temptation to resume former behavior patterns.
As part of the reconciliation agreement, the WW should be given the opportunity to agree that her H can look at her messages/activity anytime he chooses. It is an agreement she makes that has no time line. If she balks, cries freedom of privacy, etc., then she’s still planning to be deceitful. This is her opportunity to show her H that she is being honest and faithful in her activities. Therefore, the H can look at her computer/phone activity two years, or more, down the road, just to make sure she is not slipping. She should not know when he’s going to check. At first, she will be on her toes, and if/when she backslides, she’ll delete everything. But eventually, she’ll get careless b/c she thinks he isn’t checking. Bottom line about transparency is this: If she really wants to redeem herself, then she will do whatever work necessary to save her M.
Steve, when you first joined the board, you were concerned that your W was being influenced by the anti-depressant meds her doctor continued to prescribe. I am used to seeing newcomers blame wayward behavior on everything from MLC to a personality disorder. Anyway, I have recently read how many people are reporting that their spouse no longer feels in love with them, and that their spouse has been on anti-depressants long term. Ironically, I was taking Zoloft at the time I went through my period of craziness. However, I had not been taking it long term. I was depressed, and seeing several doctors trying to get help for Fibromyalgia. One doctor had me on four medications included anti-depressants. Then the next doctor took me off all of it---cold turkey. This has been known to cause suicide in people! So, needless to say, I was a mess! I would not blame my EA on the medication, b/c I felt that was a cheap excuse to not take ownership for my actions. I have talked to a couple of women IRL who were on Zoloft and admitted it killed their sex drive. I think that’s the most common complaint I’ve heard and read about, was no interest in sex.
I went to a hormone balancing specialist and he told me the test showed I was a train wreck. My sex hormones flat lined, according to him. I hadn’t been on Zoloft for quite some time, but was still taking AD’s. I still maintain my belief in how waywardness begins in the mind, and finally acts out. I had stored a lot of resentment and lack of respect long before I took medication. In my case, the way the doctors jerked me back & forth, going from 4 AD’s to zero with no weaning period probably affected my emotional frame of mind. I had never experienced panic attacks until I went through all the prescription changes. I still don’t think it had a direct influence on me having an EA. It may have compounded some of my feelings, IDK, but I still made decisions from a free volition.
I wish your W would see another doctor, maybe a hormone balancing specialist and/or a psychiatrist. Even if she slowly weaned off Zoloft, it needs to be under a doctor’s care. I think your W has intimacy issues or something that traces back to her childhood experiences or FOO. With her going from zero to 100 and back to nearly zero in the bedroom, it sounds as if her hormones could be in a mess (or she was faking). However, I maintain that a woman’s mind determines a lot of her sex drive. The W needs emotional intimacy more than the physical (IMHO). Another reason for therapy is to understand/address why she has such a strong need for attention/admiration/flirtation/sexting from a man who is not her H. She needs to see the snares and how to overcome this weakness in her life. She probably sees it as a "need", but it is going to destroy the MR, if it is not resolved.
Anyway, this time around needs to be a little different, don’t you agree? IMHO, you were trying to satisfy her appetite and maybe keep her distracted with the new home. However, she is not fulfilled being a homemaker. She wants to sing. She wants her talent to be recognized and admired. What type of songs is she singing on the app? Church hymns, country, pop? I think her fantasy is pretending she is a famous singer with fans who adore her. She is isolating herself more & more from her real world and escaping into her fantasy. The OM is not the problem. She doesn't care about him. She just wants the adoration for her talent. This singing app provides that feedback for her, but just like the gaming, it provides other things, also.
You said something about being afraid of taking the singing app away from her b/c she has given up so much already. I'd say that is a good reason for her to be therapy. And, I would add more about your concern here, but I've already written a book, so I'm going to close for now. I hope you won't stay away from the board too long. Maybe cut back a little, but we want to hear how things are going for you. Okay?
(((hugs)))
Oh my goodness......Sandi I do know how you do it. I am humbled and amazed. Your insight is keen. Your understanding of the intricacies of what is going on so astute.
Everything you said about our standing in the church is 100% true. But to be honest I would be willing to give all that up, I truly just want to be able to trust my W. I think our standing in the church is more important to her. I think it tickles the same need for adoration and recognition as the singing and the male attention. A year and a half ago, when I told her, "Okay, let's do this. I'll stop teaching Bible School, I will let people know that we are splitting up." she hedged immediately. She was in tears not wanting to give up her Bible School class. Every time something like that would come up, she would back down and start second guessing.
You're also right that I took the weight of the marriage onto my own shoulders. I bought into the DBing works logic. And I thought the harder I DB'd the higher the percentage chance of saving my marriage. And then it started turning around. I mean yeah I wasn't perfect, but I double-downed on GAL, detaching, and 180s.........not to be bragging, but better than anyone I've ever heard of, including this board! I am sure there are others that did it better, but boy did I work hard. I was always on. ALWAYS. And I think that is why last Dec. I had the pangs of just BDing her as the anniversary of our BD approached. I started to feel how it felt to be the wayard......the walkaway. Ironically, while I was worn out from being constantly on, I had to work even harder to get through that period last Dec! Amazing how things work.
As I said in my last update, she has agreed to full transparency. That is a 180 for her from a year and a half ago. I am going to continue to encourage her to see a psychiatrist. Our MC last year suggested it, and gave a referral, but that referred psychiatrist wasn't accepting new patients. As I said, follow-through can be an issue for my W, so as soon as she hit that roadblock she stopped. I agree with everything you said about her. From her rough childhood, to her depression issues, to her not being able to be content. When things have gone the best for us, she always seems to find a way to try to self-destruct it. As if she can't believe her life can be that good.
I will try to answer all you questions:
Anyway, this time around needs to be a little different, don’t you agree? YES! This time is so different in so many ways. This one is all on her. I need to sit back and let her do the work this time.
What type of songs is she singing on the app? Church hymns, country, pop? Yes to all of those, and even some rock. Though her primary genre is pop and country. Funny though, I did notice her gravitating away from the church hymns a little more recently, and more towards the country and pop. When she was wayward last year she NEVER sang church hymns. After we recovered she made them a pretty sizable part of her repertoire.
Okay? I am not going anywhere. I owe this forum so much!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I am going to be frank here - sounds like she's on a timeout. The thing about timeouts is that, they don't work.
You can't just put this behind you. This is a recurring pattern, whether or not she labels them as EAs or not. You have to address this now, whether through counseling or something else.
What I meant was putting it behind me, was I am not going to start any more R talks.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Hey Stevie, just keep doing DB. You are a king there. You don´t wait for her. DB! IMHO this is only a wave down. Waves up coming. After going up, you both need to do some conscious evaluation, some IC, whatever.
Keep your light shining.
Hope.
WW H(me): 53 W: 48 T: 27 M: 22 S: 18 Piecing since 03/2016 Saw the light in the storm
I realized I told you a lot about my sitch but my point was if you set those boundaries....what are the consequences if she crosses them this time...the 3rd time?
Thanks l8. I love what you said about being able to deal with things without emotions. This is the way I have handled all of this! I am amazed by myself in that regard. I stopped by the old house on the way home on Wednesday. I thought I needed to cry so I tried to. I couldn't. In my other sitches I could cry at the drop of a hat, but I think that was the guilt for my part in everything. This time I believe I am innocent except for any role lasting effects from my past behavior may have influenced a lot of this.
I have been pretty firm on my boundary here. I will not tolerate this type of behavior, and I am willing to take action. The night I confronted I was firm and resolved in this. Which is why I think she jumped into the actions she has already taken. It has been 60 hours since I confronted her and her actions have all been trying to save this. I agree with Maika that the actions she has taken are not a long-term solution. But I also have to give this some time to settle down so that we can do the right things to move forward.
The IC is something I am going to take a hard line with. Initially, I want the therapist to be female and faith-based.But am open to thoughts on this.
Thanks l8, I remember both of us talking last Dec. about having doubts that we did the right thing in not just walking away ourselves! Hang in there brother!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
