#14 Here we go again

[LH19]

I disagree with your last point, IMO no matter how you handled it you will still be here right now. I think you’re in a bit of denial right now. Your w has a serious problem. You gave her the best of Steve for a year and a half and it still wasn’t good enough. I don’t doubt she’s saying and doing all the right things and trying hard. This is her third time busted. My questions for you are:

1. You can’t keep her off electronics forever. How will you feel about her texting on her phone in the future?

2. How about the next time she’s late or isn’t where she is supposed to be?

3. What happens if it happens again?

I think right now you’re trying hard to convince us it’s different this time. Sorry Steve I’m not buying it.

IMO you really need a strong plan moving forward. Did you read Accurays thread?

[SteveLW]

LH, i think I didn't make my main point stronger, maybe talked to much about her reaction. But my main point was how much more in control of ME I feel this time. No cycling, spinning. No petrifying fear of D. I'm calm, rational, cool, in total control of my feelings and emotions.

I do have to disagree though in one point. The best of Stevie for 1 1/2 years doesn't trump the worst of Stevie for 90% of the previous 18 1/2 years. No I'm not taking blame for her choices, especially this last one, but I do see my culpability in what she's become. Does she have an addiction? Yes. Am I partly responsible for that? Yes! I think that is what R2C's point is. This woman was starved of not only her primary love language for almost 2 decades.... But all on the love languages for that same period of time. I truly believe that if I had been a loving, fulfilling, nurturing, and validating husband all those years, she never would have gone looking for that elsewhere, and never would have developed that addiction. The path to alcoholism starts with that first drink. The path to heroine addiction begins with that first fix. No one had ever been an alcoholic or druggie that didn't take that first drink or first fix.

The rest I'm in 100% agreement with. Trust is going to be hard won by her. If it happens again I'll be even less inclined to stick it out as I was this time. And trust me, I was extremely close to telling her I was calling a lawyer the next day. I made it clear that I had no desire to remain married if I had to check up on her, or worry about what she was doing and who she was doing it with. And I truly believe that is why her actions since have been what they are. If she had continued the defiance and nonchalance that was her defensiveness the first night, I would have been making my plans to move forward with separation and D.

Even now I'm just taking it a day at a time. She is doing all the right things right now. I don't trust anything she says right now. As long as her actions continue to be in the direction they are now, I'll remain patient. Do I expect more from her? Yes! IC is going to be a requirement. I will not relent on that.

[RR17]

Steve, I have been gone for some time and am just now reading this. I'm so so sorry.

A few points:

There is no intuition like a LBSs intuition. There is a reason you snooped. Telling yourself that it is onesided isn't helpful. Not in the long run. Ongoing suspicion will poison any MR.

Trying to woo her back with sexy texts will not stop anything.

Creating distance will make any progress with OM easier.

Yes, patience is part of the plan, but every enabler has used patience to self-justify. This is obviously eating at you. Eventually it will show in your interaction and that won't help anything.

Stepping up and confronting will do two positive things. It will flush out a truth and enforce an Alpha approach. Notice I said "a truth" not the truth. I think you know what that means. Alpha behavior is more attractive than sexting.

I for one believe that nipping it in the bud is the way to proceed. How? Only you can know what works for you. Can you really keep calm regardless of how W responds? All these thoughts of having no expectations is prudent advice but not very practical.
All that Sandi writes seems accurate to me. A new MR without proper R and difficult work on both sides only leads to recurrences.
Just because things have been great doesn't mean they are fixed. We can't fix them. We can only set boundaries.

I will add your sitch to my prayer.

[LH19]

S,

I know the best of Steve doesn’t trump the worst of Steve but where does it end? There has to be forgiveness. If not then this never ends.

I 100% agree you shouldn’t be calling a lawyer right now and need to give it time. I’m just trying to keep you centered that this is all on her and she needs to do 100% of the heavy lifted or it will happen again.

You seem to have your doubts that she will do the heavy lifting.

[RR17]

Steve, I just realized that my last post might seem out of context. I had not caught up on the last 30 days when I responded. I see I was correct.

You went into mourning and the typical stages. I remember the sense of heightened clarity back during my BDs. Followed by sadness. Sound familiar?

Stop blaming yourself. I believe you did the work. She obviously did not.

Boundaries buddy, boundaries.

[SteveLW]

Steve, I have been gone for some time and am just now reading this. I'm so so sorry.

A few points:

There is no intuition like a LBSs intuition. There is a reason you snooped. Telling yourself that it is onesided isn't helpful. Not in the long run. Ongoing suspicion will poison any MR.

Trying to woo her back with sexy texts will not stop anything.

Creating distance will make any progress with OM easier.

Yes, patience is part of the plan, but every enabler has used patience to self-justify. This is obviously eating at you. Eventually it will show in your interaction and that won't help anything.

Stepping up and confronting will do two positive things. It will flush out a truth and enforce an Alpha approach. Notice I said "a truth" not the truth. I think you know what that means. Alpha behavior is more attractive than sexting.

I for one believe that nipping it in the bud is the way to proceed. How? Only you can know what works for you. Can you really keep calm regardless of how W responds? All these thoughts of having no expectations is prudent advice but not very practical.
All that Sandi writes seems accurate to me. A new MR without proper R and difficult work on both sides only leads to recurrences.
Just because things have been great doesn't mean they are fixed. We can't fix them. We can only set boundaries.

I will add your sitch to my prayer.

Thanks RR, I appreciate it. Just wanted to catch you up, I confronted this past Tuesday.

Thanks again!

[SteveLW]

Steve, I just realized that my last post might seem out of context. I had not caught up on the last 30 days when I responded. I see I was correct.

You went into mourning and the typical stages. I remember the sense of heightened clarity back during my BDs. Followed by sadness. Sound familiar?

Stop blaming yourself. I believe you did the work. She obviously did not.

Boundaries buddy, boundaries.

I see you caught up! Thanks again.

[SteveLW]

S,

I know the best of Steve doesn’t trump the worst of Steve but where does it end? There has to be forgiveness. If not then this never ends.

I 100% agree you shouldn’t be calling a lawyer right now and need to give it time. I’m just trying to keep you centered that this is all on her and she needs to do 100% of the heavy lifted or it will happen again.

You seem to have your doubts that she will do the heavy lifting.

Yep. Sure do. I appreciate you helping me keep my head on straight! I'm trying to stay grounded, realistic, and balancing my love for her vs. my expectations of her following this latest transgression.

[BluWave]

Hi Steve,

I am sorry you find yourself in this sitch again. You said you are open to hearing all advice/opinions, so I wanted to weigh in. You have a lot of great people in your corner, so I am not sure how much I can add, but I will try. I also acknowledge that we don't see eye to eye all of the time, and so you can take what I say with a grain of salt.

I think it is safe to say that as far as Newcomers go, you have dove in deeper than anyone on the boards and dedicated much of your life to DBing and helping others. You have only been on the boards for 18 months and have written over 5600 posts! That is amazing -- I don't even know how you do it! ... but perhaps in turn you have become your own worst enemy? I do wonder if DBing is on the forefront of your brain for so many hours each day, that it can paradoxically cause a greater attachment to your W and the idea that you have to make your M work? A part of healthy detachment comes not only from the GAL, but from taking your mind off of your M and allowing the complete distraction away from it. Just a thought I had.

I agree with the others that I have seen you try and take responsibility for some of her actions and choices. And while that speaks to your strong character -- that you are willing to be accountable and make corrections for your own mistakes -- it can also lead to a false sense of control over your situation. You know as well as anyone that even if you DB perfectly, you can never control what she does or the outcome. DBing is really to increase the odds that they will want to remain married, but equally it is to prepare ourselves for it not working. It is always easier to see that in other people's sitches than our own.

When I read your writings I get the sense you might feel defensive and you are persuasive in your argument that things are not as bad as last time and that you are handling things better. I don't doubt that at all! My bigger concern is that her behavior and need for attention from other men is becoming a pattern over time. Addiction or not, that makes me think she has never recovered from it. The best predicament of future behavior is from past. Her consistent need to flirt and get validation from men is not going to go away, even if you DB perfectly, set boundaries and follow them, go to MC, etc. She has to want to believe herself that her R with you is enough, and it doesn't seem to be. She needs these OM and has said it whether you allow it or not. I am sorry to say that.

You mention that by not fulfilling her LL for 2 decades that you are partly responsible, and I don't agree. All Ms and relationships run into trouble at times and most of us here can see how we were not good partners. None of that has to do with her "need" for attention from other men. I think she is lacking a sense of self worth and self fulfillment in her own day to day life so she turns to the quick fix -- gaming, messages, flirting, attention, etc. I don't know if this is as directly related to her satisfaction in her M with you as you want to believe that it is. And understandably you want to believe that because that is something you CAN control. You can DB better and work on being AMOAFWL, right? ... but you DID do that, and she is still being a WW in her actions and her explicit stated desires ...

Maybe a better question to ask yourself is if you want to be married to a partner you have to treat like a teenager? Someone you have to monitor and control or worry about their screen time. That doesn't sound fulfilling to me. Even if your pursuing her and making her feel wanted -- as R2C suggests you should do -- works temporarily, do you want to be in a long term M with someone you have to try so hard to stop them from keeping away from OMs attention? That sounds exhausting to me. I would lose attraction for my partner if I had to force his attention away form OWs and if I knew thats what he desired.

So from my perspective, the answer lies in something you cannot control or even influence no matter how hard you try. She on her own needs to create a genuine and fulfilling life for herself -- and one that she doesn't require shallow quick fix it's (like a hit of a drug) from strangers -- and hopefully a life that includes you in it. I am not sure you can do any of that for her and I doubt all the praying and counseling will change anything. She has to want things to change and then take actions to change her own life first. ... And maybe she needs to really lose you before realizing what she has in front of her. I am not saying you should leave your M, that is not my place, but these are my thoughts for now.

Best,
Blu

[RR17]

Blu is spot on. IMO.
As I read through your last month's worth of post I see a man that is trying to sell his Ws last week's worth of actions to a group that has seen too much. We get it that you are in a better place this time. You seemed to be in a good state the last go-round. Blaming addiction or a troubled youth are not helpful. The fault is on your W. Best you can do is to create an atmosphere where she has the best chance of seeing this. It's always hard to see this in our own sitches.

I see indications that you are considering Persute acceptable. Wrong

Pull back. DB but let your intentions be ambiguous. IMO she hasn't felt enough pain. Yes I said that. Reread what Sandi has said about real reconciliation. Simply going to IC is not enough. I agree she needs to go but like everything, there are no guarantees, no quick fixes. She has to want it more than her EA quick-fixes of late.
Right now she is behaving out of shock. So are you. This will change. Ws get good are throwing us off their trail. I have lived this for over a year now. Just as we can reduce pressure, there are things that they will do to reduce the pressure both on us and inturn on them. Don't fall for it.

Trust is going to be very difficult. What it will take, stands to be seen. Once again you are a long way from crossing that bridge.

Now you have 2 homes and a WW. Good behavior or not you are in a pile of poo. Make her pursue you. I know you can.