Divorce because I betrayed her trust - THREAD 2

[DaB35]

Journal

Had a sad morning thinking about W. Various emotions really. Loss, frustration, hope, love, happiness.
I feel so sad that she has decided to throw away everything in less than 3 months.

What do people think about this? If I had been in a relationship with someone for 8 years and it was on the whole really good with no issues, and the person I was with cheated on me - let's say a physical affair lasting 1 year (to clarify, I have NOT had a PA) - I don't think I would just kick them out forever and move on. I'd think "hang on, we've had 8 years together. They've made a mistake. A huge one nonetheless, and I will definitely take time to forgive, but I like to think I will."
I think it would be rather offensive to chuck a relationship away "just like that"; surely the betrayer would think that the 8 years didn't matter one bit to me.

I'd weigh up everything:
Have they abused me? No
Have they stolen from me? No
Have they belittled me in public? No
Do we argue all the time? No

I'd then think "OK - you have really hurt me, but I want this to work out because what we have is worth saving. I suggest we separate for a short time, you attend IC, and then perhaps we see someone together (MC) in a few weeks once you've started sorting your issues out. I don't want to give up on this M."

Yes the trust breaking is a big matter, I'm not downplaying that. I'm just interested to know others' thoughts on this. I don't see how people can simply axe a relationship in what is seemingly a moment's thought. It doesn't make sense to me.

[DS9]

Hey Dan I think if I found out about a 1 year PA it’d be all over for me. I think your addiction is on a much lower scale than that though. How often was it happening, when did she find out and how long had you been addicted?

Is there anything you can pick in the last couple of years which could underly her position and this was the proverbial straw?

[DaB35]

DS9 - it had been going on in the background for our entire relationship - 8 years. I'd been 'using' the sites from actually before we met, but exchanged chats with 2 women for 8 months from September 2018.

It's certainly part of NGS and my therapist has been great in identifying certain things too - fear of intimacy, poor body image etc.

She found out everything in May this year.

She had caught me previously - a few pics on my phone in Xmas 2017. She was angry but it only lasted a day or so. I slept in the spare room that night. She was ok afterwards but would bring it up occasionally for a month or so afterwards. Valentine's day was a bit awkward but she was fine after that.

In the last year or so we hadn't had a huge amount of sex. About 4 or 5 times January to May. I've covered this in earlier posts. She has a few illnesses and was also giving me the impression that she wasn't interested. Communication was an issue from both her and me; she wouldn't bring up her concern until it was too late, by which time I couldn't do anything to change things, and I would assume that there was no problem as she didn't bring it up.
Weirdly, when we were separated we were intimate 6 times in one week in June (!).

I know, I was selfish and stupid to do what I did. I have remorse and am acknowledging my actions and consequences.

[DaB35]

OK I had a backslide of detaching.

As an anniversary present, I made my W a little gift - a short stop-motion film featuring all her Jellycat toys. I also included a lot of references to in-jokes that we've had over the years. The background music was 'our song'. Not the song that we had at our wedding, just a song that means a lot to both of us about our R.

I left it in the house a while ago. I had started it in March (before W found out everything), but wanted to finish it despite everything that had happened. I just left a note saying that there wasn't a good time to give it to her in person, I didn't want to leave it incomplete, and hope she liked it.

Anyway, she texted me today:

W: "I got the DVD you made. I don't understand why you would make it, especially with our song. You know it's going to make this so much harder for me to bare? Is it deliberate? I just don't understand you at all."

I haven't replied yet, but I'm going to say:

Me - "I do see how you would feel it’ll make things harder to deal with. That’s not why I did it - I’m not out to upset you. I’m just letting you know that I care for you, no matter what. I can imagine how it would be overwhelming at this time. It’s really not deliberate. That song means so much to both of us, and what’s in the film. My intention was only good."

I believe I'm validating here but not being too defensive. I won't say sorry as that suggests NGS to me - thoughts?

[AnotherStander]

Hi Dan,

For GAL I've signed up to local gym (starting in a few days), exercising at home too, hobbies at home, walking, speaking to friends that I haven't spoken to in a while.
Also have had a few day trips to London to see things (concerts, comedy etc.) on my own. Takes my mind off the situation. Might do more of that soon.
At work I'm doing exams (accountancy) and waiting on results for my last one. Hopefully that means a pay rise!

AWESOME!! Work on getting to the point where 75% of your post content is stuff like this. THIS is your path to healing!

My W is still really important to me. I don't hate her, and I haven't stopped loving her. I am just sad that she is so hardened that she feels it's ok to chuck the last 8 years away.

Yes it's hard for us all to wrap our heads around what happened to our M's. For some of us there's no reason at all. I was with my XW nearly 25 years and the most I ever got from her was "I don't know why, I just don't want to try anymore." You can spend your days contemplating the why's and what if's or you can go about the business of making yourself awesome. Having walked the path I'm here to tell you the 2nd choice is the way to go.

I think going to the gym will also help. I've always been scared of going to a gym (NGS) - just the fear of other more 'alpha' guys thinking snide comments about my scrawny frame and how I'll be here a while before any results happen (!).

It will definitely help, and having spent decades in multiple gyms I can tell you that your fears are completely unfounded. There are people from every walk of life working out in most gyms. Skinny, fat, buff, old, young, handicapped, etc. etc. I don't even particularly notice who is there or what they look like, I'm just there to get business done like most everyone else. Just use common sense, like don't hog up space in front of the dumbbell rack or jump on a bench or machine that someone else is using (if there's a towel on it that generally means someone is still using it and may not be on it at that moment because they are supersetting or something) and no one will care what you're doing. And don't ego-lift, no one cares how much you're lifting or how many times but if you're trying to lift too much and your form is horrible then people will be rolling their eyes. If you've never lifted in your life then spend some money on a trainer for a while, that is money extremely well spent because you will learn how to lift correctly from the beginning. Proper form is very, very important to keep you from getting injured.

Now let's talk about NGS for a second. You've read the book so you know NGS isn't about "being nice", it's about being passive/aggressive while putting on a facade of being a nice guy. Nice guys are VERY concerned about what others think of them. Not about what kind of person they really are, but more about what kind of person others -think- they are. So your gym fears are as you suspected largely because of NGS. So are all the following statements you've made:

Do I need to tell her "I don't want this, but I know I can't change your mind. I'm not going to obstruct you." Or something to that effect?

Yes I was thinking if I should write a little note to her parents to apologise (they live 200 miles away), but I guess that would not help at this stage.

I will reply and get her to ask about certain fees so we can compare them. I want to end my reply with "Very sad about our house." Should I? Is that pursuing?

I really don't think I can do the "If this divorce goes through I do not want to be friends with you" thing.

It seems so cruel. To cut her out my life after making her part of the centre of my world for eight years.

How is all that nice guy stuff working out for you so far? DROP IT! Here's the thing- people love a bad boy. Women love bad boys. Men love bad boys. Why? Because you know what you're getting. Even if they are a-holes you know that's who they are, they're "real". Why are men so afraid of being perceived as "bad" when that's exactly what most people are attracted to? It's strange. So quit freakin' worrying about whether everyone thinks you're nice, they probably DO think you're nice and that's part of the problem.

As an anniversary present, I made my W a little gift - a short stop-motion film featuring all her Jellycat toys. I also included a lot of references to in-jokes that we've had over the years. The background music was 'our song'. Not the song that we had at our wedding, just a song that means a lot to both of us about our R.

I left it in the house a while ago. I had started it in March (before W found out everything), but wanted to finish it despite everything that had happened. I just left a note saying that there wasn't a good time to give it to her in person, I didn't want to leave it incomplete, and hope she liked it.

Anyway, she texted me today:

W: "I got the DVD you made. I don't understand why you would make it, especially with our song. You know it's going to make this so much harder for me to bare? Is it deliberate? I just don't understand you at all."

Let me ask you something, if you break your arm which do you think would help it heal faster:

A) get it set and then leave it alone for a long time so it can heal on its own
B) hit it with a hammer each day to see if that makes it better

QUIT DOING B TO YOUR FAILING MARRIAGE! That is MAJOR pursuit, like exactly the kind of pursuit that makes your W think you are pathetic and someone she needs to get away from as quickly as possible.

I haven't replied yet, but I'm going to say:

Me - "I do see how you would feel it’ll make things harder to deal with. That’s not why I did it - I’m not out to upset you. I’m just letting you know that I care for you, no matter what. I can imagine how it would be overwhelming at this time. It’s really not deliberate. That song means so much to both of us, and what’s in the film. My intention was only good."

Really? That's how you want to respond? Go back and read DR again. Read NMMNG again. Also pick up and read The Married Man Sex Life Primer. Don't say or do ANYTHING to your W until you've really read them deeply. Don't just blast through them in an evening, read to UNDERSTAND.

I believe I'm validating here but not being too defensive. I won't say sorry as that suggests NGS to me - thoughts?

It is dripping with pursuit and NGS. Just don't reply.

[DaB35]

AS, thanks for such an extensive reply. Much appreciated.

I'm worried that if I don't reply at all, she will simply respond with "Really? No answer? Don't you care?" or similar.

I don't want to justify what I did - I realise that I should not have done it and left it there for her to find. I just wanted to, that was the problem. However, is it ok to not reply to that then? Not even to validate and say something like "I can see how overwhelming it might have been for you. It is not deliberate." and leave it at that?

Just seems rude to not reply.

[AnotherStander]

I'm worried that if I don't reply at all, she will simply respond with "Really? No answer? Don't you care?" or similar.

If you feel you must reply then say something like "I just thought it was a nice gesture, but I can see why it affected you negatively. I will keep that in mind in the future."

Don't say you're "sorry" or apologize for it, just acknowledge her feelings.

[DaB35]

Yes that's a good response. Short and also validates. Thank you.

I met up with one of my schoolfriends for lunch today. Was great to see her and catch up. She is on my side and feels W is over-reacting (but then she doesn't have any problems with porn at all). Was nice to discuss things openly with a close friend of 20+ years. We agreed to arrange a dinner with other friends one time soon.

I'm trying to just distract myself with Spotify whilst I'm at work - with absolutely nothing that reminds me of W.
It's working.

Going to keep up with GAL; it's really helping.

[AnotherStander]

I met up with one of my schoolfriends for lunch today. Was great to see her and catch up. She is on my side and feels W is over-reacting (but then she doesn't have any problems with porn at all).

I've avoided talking about the porn issue because I don't really know how deep you went down the rabbit hole. Obviously if it's affecting your work and your relationships then clearly that's an issue, and only you really know that. But just in general almost every man watches porn (there's an old joke- 99% of men watch porn and the other 1% lie about it), and I would venture to say that everyone that wants to throw you under the bus for it has watched it themselves.

Whether you're religious or not there's a significant quote attributed to Jesus- "First, remove the beam out of your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother's eye." So your wife wants to wreck her life and yours over you watching porn, but is her life so squeaky clean? Or is she trying to remove a splinter from your eye while having a log wedged in her own? I doubt she's perfect.

I'm not giving you a free pass for the porn addiction, but I am agreeing with you that this should not be a deal-breaker in a relationship. If your W thinks she is going to leave you and go out there and find a perfect man who never watches porn then may God bless her poor, ignorant soul, LOL!

[DaB35]

I went fairly deep as I relied on it as escapism from my problems that I should have addressed a long time ago. I'm addressing them now.
It wasn't affecting work (never looked at work) - only ever in my own time at home.

I should have stopped at simply 'looking' or 'curiosity'. It then spiralled. Unfortunately this spiralling happened at the same time as a lovely relationship with a great woman.

She is absolutely not perfect. She is a hypochondriac, stubborn, and she smokes when she is drunk which I really hate, but when I say I don't like that she smokes she just says "well I can do what I want." (it's not regular that's what annoys me. It's infrequent - I just think "well just don't do it then!").
I think it was a rebelling thing - she started smoking socially at college, abotu age 19/20, and she admits it was to rebel against her parents' staunch Christian upbringing. She certainly has issues but refuses therapy of any sort.

Yes wrecking both our lives over this. And I've stopped, and GALing instead.