I am in a weird space now. I am not anxious, scared or anything. I just am doing my thing, doing my GAL activities and am okay with whatever occurs moving forward. Life will go on. Que sera sera. I have implicit trust in God that whatever will happen will work for the good.
I feel like I have become so good at detachment that I am almost disconnecting. And while I think that should concern me, it does not.
I woke up from a dream last night where she admitted (in the dream) to still contacting this last guy, and that she was engaging with him in an inappropriate way. I asked if she was in love with him, and she said she was. I asked if she wanted to leave for him, and she wouldn't answer. When I woke up from that I had trouble going back to sleep, not because I was upset, but because I wasn't upset. I started to explore why I was not upset and realized that I have reach a point, after nearly 2 years, where I am at point of not being sure of what I want. And it has a side-effect of the que sera sera attitude that I am feeling.
The good news is that in the past this would have caused me to revert on my 180s. I have matured beyond that, so I still have my changes instilled in me.
I think one of the other reasons for all of this is that for the last nearly 2 years where I have DB'd my tail off, my W is still not the girl I married. She has changed, and while some of that might be typical as we age, I just feel like some of it is the result of the past harm I have caused. She is not as affectionate as she used to be, she is much more solitary and independent, and she is more blunt and forthcoming with how she really feels about things (I could give examples but I think that captures it) where before she was much more conscious of how it might impact others' feelings.
In general, I guess while things are good, the last speedbump was a wake up reminder that all of this is still precarious and to make sure I am detached, that I am GAL, and that my 180s are truly who I am and not just to effect an outcome.
So that is where we are. Kind of an internal war with myself. I think part of it is what I've talked about in the past, where things were so bad for so long prior to the BD in Dec 2017 that I am looking back and wondering if I even want to keep trying. That there is more out there that is more fulfilling. That there is someone that will be more fitting to what I want and need rather than settling for what she is capable or willing to give. Or maybe I am just tired and want an end. Maybe marriage is too much work and I am not willing to do that work. Regardless, I know I am going to be ok no matter what!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I am in a weird space now. I am not anxious, scared or anything. I just am doing my thing, doing my GAL activities and am okay with whatever occurs moving forward. Life will go on. Que sera sera. I have implicit trust in God that whatever will happen will work for the good.
I feel like I have become so good at detachment that I am almost disconnecting. And while I think that should concern me, it does not.
I woke up from a dream last night where she admitted (in the dream) to still contacting this last guy, and that she was engaging with him in an inappropriate way. I asked if she was in love with him, and she said she was. I asked if she wanted to leave for him, and she wouldn't answer. When I woke up from that I had trouble going back to sleep, not because I was upset, but because I wasn't upset. I started to explore why I was not upset and realized that I have reach a point, after nearly 2 years, where I am at point of not being sure of what I want. And it has a side-effect of the que sera sera attitude that I am feeling.
The good news is that in the past this would have caused me to revert on my 180s. I have matured beyond that, so I still have my changes instilled in me.
I think one of the other reasons for all of this is that for the last nearly 2 years where I have DB'd my tail off, my W is still not the girl I married. She has changed, and while some of that might be typical as we age, I just feel like some of it is the result of the past harm I have caused. She is not as affectionate as she used to be, she is much more solitary and independent, and she is more blunt and forthcoming with how she really feels about things (I could give examples but I think that captures it) where before she was much more conscious of how it might impact others' feelings.
In general, I guess while things are good, the last speedbump was a wake up reminder that all of this is still precarious and to make sure I am detached, that I am GAL, and that my 180s are truly who I am and not just to effect an outcome.
So that is where we are. Kind of an internal war with myself. I think part of it is what I've talked about in the past, where things were so bad for so long prior to the BD in Dec 2017 that I am looking back and wondering if I even want to keep trying. That there is more out there that is more fulfilling. That there is someone that will be more fitting to what I want and need rather than settling for what she is capable or willing to give. Or maybe I am just tired and want an end. Maybe marriage is too much work and I am not willing to do that work. Regardless, I know I am going to be ok no matter what!
Steve, I don't have any answers but I can provide some insight of some problems I see having the benefit of looking at this from the outside without emotions involved. Again, these are my opinions and I could be wrong, but I am listing them in the hope they may be useful to you
1. Attraction: I feel that your wife is not attracted to you. Find what is missing and work on getting the attraction back in your marriage. I understand you are probably aware of this, but based on your sitch you are not taking the right actions to re-attract her back. Give this some thought and see what you need to do different.
2. Stop expecting your W to become the girl you married. Accept her for the person she is today or talk to her about what needs to change. The change should not require her to become who she was earlier just the person you want her to be in the future.
3. You are clearly not happy in your marriage. I feel that you are standing because you value the institution of marriage and that may be leading to subconscious resentment in your DB efforts. Adopt a mindset that you are willing to walk away from the marriage (note that this is different from actually walking away). I think this will not only help you but also help re-trigger attraction in your W
Now itīs my turn to say: willingness. One of your first answers to my sitch was that. It was good advice then, and it is always good advice.
Time, patience.
Willingness
I hate when people use me back on me! LOL
Seriously though, willingness is an outcome of patience. Something I used to be very short on, and something that I constantly need to check myself for.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I am in a weird space now. I am not anxious, scared or anything. I just am doing my thing, doing my GAL activities and am okay with whatever occurs moving forward. Life will go on. Que sera sera. I have implicit trust in God that whatever will happen will work for the good.
I feel like I have become so good at detachment that I am almost disconnecting. And while I think that should concern me, it does not.
I woke up from a dream last night where she admitted (in the dream) to still contacting this last guy, and that she was engaging with him in an inappropriate way. I asked if she was in love with him, and she said she was. I asked if she wanted to leave for him, and she wouldn't answer. When I woke up from that I had trouble going back to sleep, not because I was upset, but because I wasn't upset. I started to explore why I was not upset and realized that I have reach a point, after nearly 2 years, where I am at point of not being sure of what I want. And it has a side-effect of the que sera sera attitude that I am feeling.
The good news is that in the past this would have caused me to revert on my 180s. I have matured beyond that, so I still have my changes instilled in me.
I think one of the other reasons for all of this is that for the last nearly 2 years where I have DB'd my tail off, my W is still not the girl I married. She has changed, and while some of that might be typical as we age, I just feel like some of it is the result of the past harm I have caused. She is not as affectionate as she used to be, she is much more solitary and independent, and she is more blunt and forthcoming with how she really feels about things (I could give examples but I think that captures it) where before she was much more conscious of how it might impact others' feelings.
In general, I guess while things are good, the last speedbump was a wake up reminder that all of this is still precarious and to make sure I am detached, that I am GAL, and that my 180s are truly who I am and not just to effect an outcome.
So that is where we are. Kind of an internal war with myself. I think part of it is what I've talked about in the past, where things were so bad for so long prior to the BD in Dec 2017 that I am looking back and wondering if I even want to keep trying. That there is more out there that is more fulfilling. That there is someone that will be more fitting to what I want and need rather than settling for what she is capable or willing to give. Or maybe I am just tired and want an end. Maybe marriage is too much work and I am not willing to do that work. Regardless, I know I am going to be ok no matter what!
Steve, I don't have any answers but I can provide some insight of some problems I see having the benefit of looking at this from the outside without emotions involved. Again, these are my opinions and I could be wrong, but I am listing them in the hope they may be useful to you
1. Attraction: I feel that your wife is not attracted to you. Find what is missing and work on getting the attraction back in your marriage. I understand you are probably aware of this, but based on your sitch you are not taking the right actions to re-attract her back. Give this some thought and see what you need to do different.
2. Stop expecting your W to become the girl you married. Accept her for the person she is today or talk to her about what needs to change. The change should not require her to become who she was earlier just the person you want her to be in the future.
3. You are clearly not happy in your marriage. I feel that you are standing because you value the institution of marriage and that may be leading to subconscious resentment in your DB efforts. Adopt a mindset that you are willing to walk away from the marriage (note that this is different from actually walking away). I think this will not only help you but also help re-trigger attraction in your W
1. Probably not far off. As I said, I think a lot of this stems from my past, poor behavior. And while great strides have been made here, and there is evidence that it has turned around at least some, I think this may be true. I know we say around here a lot that attraction for wives follows respect. She is insistent that she highly respects me. But I think that past hurts made her lose the romantic "He would never hurt me" view that she had for the "perfect" husband. And while she is thrilled (her own words) with what I have been like the last 22 months, I think there is still a bit of mistrust there that holds her back. I have done quite a bit to re-attract her, but I think it is probably unrealistic to think that 22 months can erase nearly 19 (even 20 counting our last year of dating) of passive-aggressive, covert contracts. I would be open to any thoughts you might have as to how to amp this up even more than I have.
2. Good advice. I do think that there was an element of hoping that DBing, that being a better spouse, that 180ing on some very poor, destructive behavior, would engender her to change back to being more like the girl I married. Sometimes the feelings of the heart have a tough time receiving the logic from the brain. And I think this was the case here. My head was saying "Listen to sandi! The girl you married is gone." But my heart was longing for that girl that thought I walked on water. The truth is that if we have any chance of a future I do have accept her for the woman she is now. I do disagree with talking to her about what needs to change though. I think I need to keep this all in the mind sight of controlling myself. Can I live the rest of my life with this new person she has become? Or do I need to let her go to be whomever she feels she needs to be, and move with my own life? It is a big question. And one that I need to take time and wrestle with, but not trying to control or change her in the process.
3. I think you are right with your first statement to a point. I am 90% happy with my marriage. But the 10% raises its ugly head from time-to-time. I do value the institution of marriage. Otherwise I would have bolted a long time ago. But I am not sure about the characterization that I am subconsciously resentful in my DB efforts. I say that because about 3 months in I realized that DBing was for me. Even if I was single I would need to be detached (not letting things out of my control decide if I am happy or not), GAL (go out and do new things, engage in things I enjoy), and 180 (engage in constant self-improvement,never settling for where I am at in my development). And I believe truly that I am willing to walk away from my marriage. While it isn't what I want, what I need to do is to decide what I WANT, that was the point of my update/diatribe earlier. I need to figure that out (I have a plan I think I am going to hire a life-coach), and the decide if she, as who she is today, fits into that desire or not. And then act accordingly.
Thanks MLC for your insight as always! I appreciate it greatly.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I woke up from a dream last night where she admitted (in the dream) to still contacting this last guy, and that she was engaging with him in an inappropriate way. I asked if she was in love with him, and she said she was. I asked if she wanted to leave for him, and she wouldn't answer. When I woke up from that I had trouble going back to sleep, not because I was upset, but because I wasn't upset. I started to explore why I was not upset and realized that I have reach a point, after nearly 2 years, where I am at point of not being sure of what I want. And it has a side-effect of the que sera sera attitude that I am feeling.
That's interesting. I had a similar dream (that W was actually amorously smitten, in love with, the OM, and that i witnessed a tender moment between them). Unlike you, this was very early in my journey and i was NOT so sanguine about it-- at that point it represented what would have been a definite escalation in my W's interactions with OM and I had also not yet reached any kind of level of detachment--- this was maybe two months into the whole thing. Funny thing was, their relationship had escalated, as i would soon come to find out, and I would also, at that point, begin my long journey to 180/GAL/improve myself and detach myself. I relate this because, to me, this is a very clear sign that you have the detachment you need to 1) be healthy for yourself and 2) be AMOAFWL and the best husband possible for your w. Dreams, prescient or not, can reveal important information about both ourselves and those around us and our relationships with them.
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I think one of the other reasons for all of this is that for the last nearly 2 years where I have DB'd my tail off, my W is still not the girl I married. She has changed, and while some of that might be typical as we age, I just feel like some of it is the result of the past harm I have caused. She is not as affectionate as she used to be, she is much more solitary and independent, and she is more blunt and forthcoming with how she really feels about things (I could give examples but I think that captures it) where before she was much more conscious of how it might impact others' feelings.
People change sometimes. This can particularly be so as we age and our hormonal balance changes, and, as i understand it, can be doubly so for women in the age group of our wives as they undergo menopause. I, too, noticed profound changes in my W during her waywardness. Often reminded me nothing of her old self. Ultimately, there were elements in her personality and makeup-- strong ones-- that prevailed within her and helped bring her back (and largely, as i have posted before, due to a divine softening of her heart, and of mine). However, even when she "came back", she was still somewhat changed. Thankfully, she was still someone i wanted to be with and i someone she wanted to be with. But that is something you will have to decide in your own case... as will your wife... Because, at the end of the day, love is not an arrow shot from the string of a little cherub, nor a magical spell cast from on high. True, lasting, love is a choice-- a verb much more than it is a noun-- that I choose to love this person, and everything that they are, all their good and all their "bad". That definition and meaning of "love" is something i did not completely understand prior to my ordeal, but is a revelation that my spiritual journey during that period led me to. In the end, i think that that concept of love--"I choose you"-- is way more romantic, sexy, whatever you want to call it than the others.
I hope and pray that you and your W make that choice, if it is the best one for you and that, if you don't, you find someone that warrants such a choice and who will find you worthy of the same choice in return.
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
hoos, you make great points. This jumped out at me: "Thankfully, she was still someone i wanted to be with and i someone she wanted to be with."
Obviously I think we all have dealbreakers that would mean if our spouses turned into X then we would walk. And there is the old saying that goes: "Women marry a man hoping he'll change, men marry a woman hoping she won't."
I am actually surprised, just like I was last December, how strong the desire to pull the plug is right now. It has taken me by surprise. I keep hearing the words of one of our vets: "Relax, nothing has changed, take your time and don't do anything rash." I almost suffocated right now when around her in the house. I really need to pray hard. I can see me slipping into a GAL glut. I have been home so little the last few weeks and I think that is my subconscious pushing me further and further away.
I am thankful for this forum as being a safe place to discuss what is going on in my head!
Last edited by Steve85; 09/26/1912:46 PM.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
1. Probably not far off. As I said, I think a lot of this stems from my past, poor behavior. And while great strides have been made here, and there is evidence that it has turned around at least some, I think this may be true. I know we say around here a lot that attraction for wives follows respect. She is insistent that she highly respects me. But I think that past hurts made her lose the romantic "He would never hurt me" view that she had for the "perfect" husband. And while she is thrilled (her own words) with what I have been like the last 22 months, I think there is still a bit of mistrust there that holds her back. I have done quite a bit to re-attract her, but I think it is probably unrealistic to think that 22 months can erase nearly 19 (even 20 counting our last year of dating) of passive-aggressive, covert contracts. I would be open to any thoughts you might have as to how to amp this up even more than I have.
.
This actually made me think of something. I understand that it may take her more time to forgive you completely for past hurts but if you want to build attraction, you need to be alpha. This means in your mind you should expect her to accept you for who you are today. If you try to justify her behavior based on your actions 22 months ago, that is beta behavior and will only cause her to lose respect for you. Regardless of your past, you need to act like you are the prize today and mentally act like you expect her to recognize that. Don't make excuses for her. If you can get that mental shift within you, I think that will help. Make sure you don't hurt her today and learn from your past mistakes. Treat her right but expect that she treats you right too based on who you have been recently and not 22 months ago.
Originally Posted by Steve85
2. I do disagree with talking to her about what needs to change though. I think I need to keep this all in the mind sight of controlling myself. Can I live the rest of my life with this new person she has become? Or do I need to let her go to be whomever she feels she needs to be, and move with my own life? It is a big question. And one that I need to take time and wrestle with, but not trying to control or change her in the process.
What I meant is that if there are any deal breakers for you, talk to her before you decide it is not worth standing. If you can accept her for who she is, that is the best case scenario. But if something is important to you and you absolutely need her to change don't assume she won't and walk away. There may be things your wife is willing to change if she knows it is hurting the marriage - and she may decide to change because it makes her a better person and not just because you wanted it. Think about all of the LBS who come here saying "if only I knew what to change sooner, I could have saved my MR". You don't want to be a WAS because you did not communicate to her that something was a deal breaker for you.
Originally Posted by Steve85
Thanks MLC for your insight as always! I appreciate it greatly.
Happy to help! Some of the feedback I have provided is not easy to read with an open mind but I know you are a strong person that can take this the right way. I do believe you can turn this around quickly with a few more small changes.
I did a lot of damage in my marriage over the course of 28 years. Angry, controlling, etc. Turns out it was untreated mental illness but it was too little too late. He was still attracted to me physically (and I him) but the connection wasn't there. I'd get angry about it which of course drove us further apart. I wanted him to be in love with me like I was him but he checked out years ago. I knew it of course. I just kept throwing things at it hoping something, anything would stick. Never happened.
He finally pulled the plug 7 months after I got a job. I suspect he's been planning this for years probably waiting until the kids were older, waiting until we sold the house, waiting until I got a job. He lined his ducks up so very perfectly. After we sold the house I thought "he's going to leave me" and he did. I ignored the feeling to my detriment.
I have no real advice other than to say I've been there. I know that after 18 months if I DB I won't care anymore. I can do anything for 18 months. Heck I'm already at 6 months. Yeah it stinks but this is out of my control.
