The last straw

[Traveler]

Hi Zip,

It's exhausting just reading all you're going through. Living through that would be H-E-DoubleHockeySticks.

Wrote a list of what I want and she is hitting 25% of the list at best. Could she be at 80%, yes, will she?.

It won't happen unless and until she wants to be married to you. When she wants out is definitely NOT the time to unload on her a list of things she's doing wrong / should change to be with you.

It's amazing how much a partner will change when they choose you!

"as I look in my past, i found as one door closes that i wanted to stay open, there seems another always comes open that is a better option to what I thought was good"

Nope. What was your goal in sending it? You can always share ideas here before implementing them. In these situations often sitting on your hands is better than doing something rash.

Our convo today was that she wanted to RSVP for a wedding, She pretty much told me I shouldnt go as i may stir up drama. This is what took us to where the D stands.

Was SHE invited or were YOU invited? If you were BOTH invited, she decides for herself if she goes, and you decide for yourself if you go. This shows you don't control her and she doesn't control you. You are both individuals free to make choices! A wedding is a social occasion where you get to catch-up and meet people.

I saw her this afternoon and told her i now know what she meant by the docs and it was to be attached to the filing, She then said she didn t know what she was doing and she wasnt going to talk about it. this would have been a good time to discuss being we has an empty house.

Except, DB'ing says to drop the pressure and relationship talks. Case A: She's lying and knows exactly what she's doing--then there's nothing to talk about. When she files, you'll see what she's asking for and can approve or reject it. Your lawyer will advise you of your rights and take any protective measures necessary. Case B: She's being honest and doesn't know what she's doing, as evidenced by the mixed signals. You're pressuring her to make a choice when it probably won't go in your favor. Why?! Drop the pressure.

Take care, Zip!

[Zip]

Been a bit busy at work as well as around the house. Been meaning to give an update.

CW, agreed, should have never posted it but guess we learn. Since then, seems she is in a much better place towards me. Communication has been much better for some unknown reason. No conversation regarding the wedding but we both were invited. I think she prob rsvp’d by now but not sure what she sent in. Not going to assume anything.

W made calls to me yesterday to discuss dinner which I found odd....not at all normal. Then again today to tell me she was meeting D23 and a feriend of hers to watch a HS soccer game. This is a change from her telling me I have lost any right to ask her what and where she is going or doing. I greatly appreciate her letting me know and feeling the communication is helping us both. Maybe a reason but I can’t read into it all too deep, just continuing to work on myself and not react.

As far as a list, it would be unrealistic to even think of bringing this up. It was for my own use trying to help me know what I want. I can see it working if in fact she is willing. Can’t get any read from her on what she is thinking or by what she says. I do see actions that tend to leaning towards staying. Could be very temporary or potentially using me to get to the wedding date next summer. Just seems to be a long time to live under the same roof especially when she says s”she can’t live under these conditions.” I think, hmmm, no yelling, no arguing, just pretty much as usual other than she is in the back BR.

Hasn’t been put out in the least bit...other than one big issue, that is her trusting me. I don’t know why she would leave until she had her plan executed to purchase a home and go. Why go thru all the work twice. Why not just stay status quo until next summer then leave after the wedding. Good news is time is on my side then if I want it to work. This is sooo confusing......

Have become more accepting to what ever may happen. Either way I think in the end I will be much better off, with or without her, as there will be changes in the future.

Thoughts?

Z

[Zip]

So this process was s getting harder. My patience is being tried big time. Just trying to get a read on her is like dancing with fire. Look at her wrong or ask a simple question and she is ready to take me on. Just the tone at times is enough to try avoiding her at all costs.

The thought of potentially pulling the trigger and filing myself is creeping into my mind more often than I prefer. This wasn’t nor isn’t exactly what I thought I would be thinking. Its a bit disturbing although when I think it through, I start wondering just what I will be losing out on. Think about the family and what I will be willing to settle with in a M, and in my heart, know the W will ever get there.

Meeting w the bulldog L tomorrow. Will get more answers regarding the bizarre payments of utilities and my personal qtrly inc taxes. Saying it was because I pay her health ins just isn’t cutting it in my mind. Can’t come up with the logic behind this and I have to believe her L advised her to do so. She did get additional info from CPA prior to this paying of taxes. Timing seems she got tax returns from CPA then to the L and then pd taxes. And then explained she was having L draw up a doc to allow her to buy a house. Spelling it out, it seems she had a pretty productive week. Maybe the paperwork is getting closer to being filed.

Becoming more mad about the sitch. Guess it’s a stage.

Ughh....

Zip

[AnotherStander]

So this process was s getting harder. My patience is being tried big time. Just trying to get a read on her is like dancing with fire. Look at her wrong or ask a simple question and she is ready to take me on. Just the tone at times is enough to try avoiding her at all costs.

Yes exactly, this is why we preach giving them time and space! You can literally do nothing right in her eyes right now, nothing will appease her. So don't even try. Do your own thing and let her do hers. When you do talk to her stick to business. Be polite but detached.

Think about the family and what I will be willing to settle with in a M, and in my heart, know the W will ever get there.

The W she is right now isn't worth being married to. In the future who knows, she may change back, it happens. But she may not, so that's what makes "standing" tough.

[Choco44]

Your situation sounds similar to mine right now.
I know he wants out, but we’re not talking about when and how. I’m trying to not ask questions about the relationship, but it’s so difficult. I want answers d@mmit! 😊

[Thornton]

I can relate, Zip.

My W is acting the same exact way. Ice cold, no eye contact. In fact, I said goodnight to W and D12 last night and only D12 responded. She can’t even be decent enough to say goodnight.

[Zip]

Thanks for the responses!

Been a busy week w b-days Including me, D23, and now W. Dinners for all except getting pushback from W on having hers, not sure why but looks it won’t be Sunday on her BDay. She thinks it best to post phone til maybe Wednesday... who knows. Made reservations but will cancel tomorrow with confirmation from her. Did t want to be caught w/o res as she says I am always late and never plan. Just another action vs words.

Had BDay dinner w D23 and the crew and everything went exceptionally well. W even held hands for a short period. I unfortunately initiated it but I ended it as well after a couple minutes. Wrong I know but guess I was taking her temp as nothing going on since last Saturday after the FB post when she was a bit hot and asked if I might have someone I’d rather take to the wedding in Oct. she has softened since that conversation.

Did meet w L2 better known as the bulldog. They are destruction specialists and this one fits the bill....she was pretty much ready to destroy the M at a drop of the hat and told me she can’t see what I am waitng for as my W has left the M a long time ago. Asked if I was seeing a IC which I said yes. Asked how many sessions and when I said 15-20 she laughed and said she isn’t doing her job and I should see a male counselor. When I walked out, oi prayed I would never need her and be in her office again. Hope I am right. She makes her living destroying M and I had to remind myself it is how she is wired. Walked away and started back on th DBing track again.

Still fighting the patience.... need to stay calm and let it flow... still finishing the books and working hard to stay busy.

I feel for all of us...this just stinks.

Thornton, choco and Steve....we will prevail thru this....

Another, I greatly appreciate your input as well as Sandi!!!!

Zip

[Thornton]

Hang in there, Zip. Keep that focus on you. Letting your W go to truly figure out her stuff is the healthiest thing you can do. Keep detaching, she just might start to warm up.

[Zip]

Update on where the sitch is. Seems there has been a change in the W. She has been much more warm and friendly the past week.

Hang in there, Zip. Keep that focus on you. Letting your W go to truly figure out her stuff is the healthiest thing you can do. Keep detaching, she just might start to warm up.

The detaching is a bit tough for me and I have made mistakes on sliding backwards in the sense i show some feelings of afffection to her. Even so she is still warming up. Since the prior weekend, she is acting as close to me as she did prior to the whole blow up. Still different BR which I am okay with but showing some signs of caring towards me.

This month has been BDay month for most of the family, Mine first which came w/ presents and a dinner but no card from the W. I assume she didnt want to write anything down and sign, such as ILY...etc. She did recognize my BD as l said above which i found interesting,. She said she didnt get to the card store but she bought something there which cant be gotten anywhere else in town...,so I have to assume she wasnt up for giving me a card. OK, I can settle for that with all other ways she showed she cared.

Had BD dinner for D24 as listed and all went really well with W and I. She is showing some affection which i would think would not be happening if she was on the eve of dropping paperwork in my lap.... maybe wrong and am cautious about thinking this is potentially changing for the better but do feel a difference from her.

Had the W's BD yesterday. She didn't go to a friend's house for the game which i didn't find too hard to understand. She wanted to relax at home. ALL GOOD,,, I had made reservations for the family for her dinner which she was exited to go. Was ready when I got home and we all had a great time at dinner. Came home and I gave her some gifts with a card. I did sign it with an ILY in there. She liked her presents and got up and gave me a kiss on the lips with a smile.
Lots more than I would have expected from her. Seeing some changes and not ready to ask any specific questions, just going to keep doing what I have been doing, working on myself and keeping calm.

Not sure if I am included in the wedding in Oct but would be surprised if I am not.... although anything could happen between now and then. Her attitude, communication, and inclusion of me in whats going on seems to have greatly improved. Hope I am not in a dream as it will be a real blow if this R goes off track again, I have to take some blame but know she is as well.

Will keep on DBing and working on myself, and working towards better days...

Zip

[sandi2]

Just stay alert and don't get emotionally pulled in by her recent actions. You may never know why she has chosen to become friendlier, but I am suspicious of WW's. If they can appease or fool the LBH just enough to slither under the backdoor of the MR, without work and change.........they will. I think I am safe in saying that most WW's prefer to simply pick up where the relationship left off, without them being held accountable and doing whatever it takes to save the M. Let me rephrase by saying that a WW who is not remorseful and humble will do as little as possible to maintain her position in the M dynamic, b/c her heart has not changed. She can put on a little show, but that doesn't mean anything has changed in her heart. I think it is a big mistake to let a WW come back too quickly too easily.

I know it gets confusing to newcomers b/c we are saying to not have relationship talks........however, I want to inject something along the lines of letting her come back into the MR too easily, without atoning for her actions. In order for true reconciliation to happen, her waywardness needs to be addressed and if she is willing to have family therapy and a transparency plan of action, and whatever else is needed for the MR to succeed........then I think that needs to be communicated at some point. She needs to realize she can't just flip the switch on/off and assume you will be thankful for any crumbs and not require any effort from her. Don't bring it up right now, but at sometime if she seems to settle in as if nothing ever happened, and she gives not explanations......I wouldn't let it go indefinitely before setting some ground rules. Why? B/c that's what WW's prefer to do........act as if nothing ever happened. They want to play nice-nice with the LBH but not do the real heavy work of repairing the damage they caused. Of course, she intends to keep separate bedrooms and keep you in the friend zone, as long as you go along with it. That is a mistake to agree to those conditions, thinking a reconciliation will eventually come. So, keep what I'm saying in the back of your mind. Don't assume she is ready to work on the MR just b/c she has shown some movements of warmth toward you. She may not follow through with the D, for whatever reason........(usually b/c the WW sees more benefit staying with the LBH). This could be nothing more than pretense, b/c you just don't know how the wheels are turning in her head. When there are so outward signs of remorse, no seeking forgiveness, no explanations, no nothing.........don't buy into the act.

Here's the thing you need to remember about a WW. She is incredibly selfish. So, whenever you see her doing something that doesn't make sense to you, just write it down that she is getting something out of it. It's usually temporary, but she gets something emotionally, financially, physically, or whatever. It's all about her. I don't know if he's still around, cause I don't see his posts, but there was a H who had a WW that cake eat like you couldn't believe, and kept him at arms length for years. He went along with whatever shots she called, and last I heard, nothing had changed. That description covers a lot of H's on the board. I hope it won't include you as well.

Keep posting, Zip. ((hugs))