SteveS - Great summary post, I need to bookmark this.
One thing I am trying out this weekend is joining a men's group. It is not a NMMNG group specifically, but basically one with very similar goals that our MC (of all people) privately recommended to me.
NMMNG recovery is a lot of work and I imagine will take months if not years. The small steps of progress I see in myself (such as saying "no" without fear of conflict erupting) are invigorating.
Great idea. I noticed that in my MR, I tended to spend less time with my friends as the years went on, which in turn put an increasing amount of pressure on WAW to provide emotional support. That eventually became a very large burden.
There's a NMMNG meetup here in NYC that I'm planning on attending, and I'm even considering attending some 12-step groups as well. I don't view myself as an addict, but one of the lessons of NMMNG is to practice verbalizing and opening up about your faults and the things that you hide.
SteveS...there is much to getting through this that's counter intuitive to what you think you should be doing. One of the vets on here "Sandi2" has the following on her signature: "It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!" From your posts it sounds to me like you are coming around on getting into alignment with that idea.
I'd suggest taking a look at scarcity vs abundance mindset. We all get here and think we'll never find another like our WAW or a better love or any of the other limiting/scarcity type feelings that do us no good. If you can get into the abundance mindset and truly believe in it, I think you'll find it will help you to manage how you go about your dealing with your WAW. Abundance will naturally help you to relax, drop the rope and allow you to focus on you and your life. You are doing work on yourself and that's going to pay off for you down the road no matter what happens.
-B
That's great advice, thank you. One of the things that my IC and I talk about is that the scarcity mindset is very common amongst two groups: late bloomers that didn't grow comfortable into who they are until later in life, and corporate-minded types who are familiar with thinking in terms of business and economics. I happen to both.
Now pile that on to the abandonment issues and at times my head can be a pretty toxic stew. But I'm not going to beat myself up: I'm aware of it, I'm actively working on it, and it doesn't mean I'm flawed, it means I'm human and a work in progress like everyone else. That's a lot more than I could have said six months ago.
My last relationship before I met WAW, we were together for three years. Lived together, had a lot of fun, and when we broke up, I was devastated and in a tough space mentally for a few months. I didn't die though, eventually I found peace with it and a few months after that, I met WAW, and everything changed. I only attracted WAW because I had dropped the rope of my old relationship, and was attractive, confident, and independent.
Now, it's true that I've never loved someone as much as WAW. Apples to oranges, sure, to some degree. But the lesson is the same. If that's the way it happens, in time I will find someone else - but only after I am healed and radiating confidence.
I also had a long chat with my friend who ended up reconciling with his now wife, just getting an understanding of how he dealt with the rollercoaster of emotions. I'm paraphrasing, but he said he came on too strong in the early days and it almost completely killed what little they still had; it was only after giving her some space that it opened the door for them to have really honest discussions about what caused the split.
I'm going to try and keep that lesson in mind.
So DB'ing actually works? Huh.
It did for him, yes.
I keep going back to something that SteveS said: you need to make WAW know that you've had an awakening, and you're prepared to go forward with or without her.
Well, I feel like I'm halfway there, at least as far as that maxim goes. I was doing some reading online earlier, and I saw a recommendation that to help clarify your feelings, it might be helpful to write out both what you want to get out of the S and what you'd want your WAW to say.
Me:
I am using this time to ask myself hard questions, reflect honestly about my role in the separation, and take action towards becoming a better partner. While ultimately it is my goal to reconcile with WAW, I do not want to go back to the relationship as it was as I do not wish to repeat the same hurtful patterns. Instead, I want to put the lessons I am learning into practice by being an emotionally open and fully communicative partner that WAW can trust and depend on. I know there is a lot of work to get there, but I am not giving up on us and I commit towards making myself a more emotionally healthy partner, and commit to taking the time necessary to rebuild the foundation.
Her:
I still have feelings for LBS, but I know that continuing the way we were going was only going to end up in divorce. We weren't communicating well, and we weren't being partners for each other - we were simply roommates. There was an elephant in the room, and the best way I knew to move forward was to separate and try to gain a new perspective on the relationship. I am not giving up on the marriage, nor am I using the time and space to explore other relationships. Instead I am using the time to reflect on how I contributed to the troubles we were having, and to continue with my individual counseling. I do not know if there is a future with Nik and I, but I do not want to give up.
Obviously these are things I'm keeping to myself. But I feel like I've gained a more clarity around what I need to, what works, and what doesn't. One day at a time.
I keep going back to something that SteveS said: you need to make WAW know that you've had an awakening, and you're prepared to go forward with or without her.
But here's the rub... you have to actually BE prepared to go forward with or without her. Otherwise you are just faking it and fooling yourself.
Just checking in how things are going for you. My W and I took a 1 month break from MC and are going back next week - got me thinking about trial separations and MC and then “I wonder how things are with SteveS?”
Just checking in how things are going for you. My W and I took a 1 month break from MC and are going back next week - got me thinking about trial separations and MC and then “I wonder how things are with SteveS?”
Hey, thanks for checking in. I've been - and no offense to anyone - somewhat avoiding coming back here, because frankly I'm getting a lot of different advice and more than ever I'm confused about the "right" way to do things. This forum is particularly hard line on no contact, others think I should write a letter from a place of confidence and strength, others think I should just cut the cord, and on and on. So I took a break to focus on myself: reading books, working out, attending therapy, and all that good stuff.
Overall I'm in an OK place, or at least I was until today. Today was move out day, so it's goodbye to the marital home for not just her, but for me as well. It was really, really hard, and it's difficult to put a positive spin on it - it's smaller, it's in a busier neighborhood, further from work, and so on. And that's just the pragmatics; obviously it's super hard emotionally too.
WAW started a new job last week (for those who don't recall, she was consulting part-time while working on her act and in the community) and she's been even more busy than usual. I'm frustrated that she just doesn't really appear to be "working" on anything - her words were that she wanted the S to remove us from our negative behaviors, and for her to understand what she wanted and whether or not there was a future for the MR. Well, she just appears to me to be working and volunteering her self to death, and I know her well enough to do it's because she doesn't really want to think about or process anything painful.
She was also once super gung-ho about getting the legal separation documents out of the way, now it seems like it's #100 of her 100 priorities at any given time. I'm definitely scared it's just fizzling out at this point, but I don't know how to stop it. Relative to MC, we're still going on a bi-weekly basis, although she's going by herself this session because of one I had by myself a few sessions back. In that session, I was boosted a lot by our therapist, who said that he rarely sees a LBS take initiative and charge the way that I have.
Other than that, not much else has changed. GAL is going well, I feel better about myself physically and have noticed many women checking me out. Thanks to a few really good books ("Wired For Love" in particular, and of course NMMG) I'm very, very cognizant of the behaviors I brought to the table that caused the S. I'd be lying however if I said I didn't love my WAW and wish to reconcile, because I *know* armed with the things I know now, we'd have such a better time of it.
I'm frustrated that she just doesn't really appear to be "working" on anything - her words were that she wanted the S to remove us from our negative behaviors, and for her to understand what she wanted and whether or not there was a future for the MR. Well, she just appears to me to be working and volunteering her self to death, and I know her well enough to do it's because she doesn't really want to think about or process anything painful.
My WAH isn't coming back so my situation is different than yours. My WAH has done little more but work a lot since he left 6 months ago. He's either avoiding pain or he's saving money for his attorney.
others think I should write a letter from a place of confidence and strength
Overall I'm in an OK place, or at least I was until today. Today was move out day, so it's goodbye to the marital home for not just her, but for me as well. It was really, really hard, and it's difficult to put a positive spin on it - it's smaller, it's in a busier neighborhood, further from work, and so on. And that's just the pragmatics; obviously it's super hard emotionally too.
Hey Steve, for what it's worth, I'd trust the veterans on here more than anything. Most of them are still here despite their M's being long gone, yet they continue to come and help people like you and me. That's priceless.
With that letter to her, do you think if you were in a place of strength and confidence you would feel the need to write it, let alone actually write it and give it to her.
Did you ever write her a nice note, poem, letter etc when things were good? If no, then even more reason not to write one to her now.
Don't write her a letter.
I hear you about your feelings in moving out mate. Hope you get out and buy lots of cool stuff to furnish your new home!
Me: early 40's XW: nearly 50 T: 15 M: 5 BD: Jan 19 S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
I read your update. Sorry to hear about the move out.
It is difficult trying to balance the right approach to winning back your spouse. The conflicting advice is hard. The hard line advice about no contact is, IMO, mostly about respecting her space and showing her that you have heard her and respect her choice.
I downloaded snapchat last year bc one of my friends told me to. Now I hated snapchat but I did it anyways. The best part was that my W got a notification that I downloaded it. That prompted her to be interested in why I did it all of the sudden when she had told me to do it years ago and made her wonder who I was talking to. I deleted it 2 days later bc I didn't care to use it or figure it out. I think that helped my sitch. You want your contact with her to be intriguing, brief, confident. And that moment generated it for me, briefly.
You can also go the other way and be upfront about her saying one thing and doing another WRT the separation's true purpose. It's tough to do without her feeling the heat, but you may want to just get that off your chest too. I've been doing a better job of saying things and letting the chips fall where they and it has worked out fine.
I think your W being super busy is normal, but more importantly it is out of your hands. What does NMMNG say to do about those things?
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
