Hey U is there any value in raising her ‘fear ‘ directly at mc as a topic to sift through and resolve, with you actually raising it as something you wish to discuss to assist her in overcoming it? Or is she just useing it to hold onto as a proverbial ace up her sleeve? You may find out if you raise it.
Me: early 40's XW: nearly 50 T: 15 M: 5 BD: Jan 19 S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
I don't know at what point my W was scared. There is a chicken-and-egg nature to how our situation evolved. When we moved 2 years ago, it was very disruptive. My W became withdrawn and depressed and distant, and our relationship suffered. I felt like I tried to meet her needs, but I also started to try to express my needs. Our intimacy fell off a cliff, which was a problem for me, and I tried to initiate conversations about it, but just in raising the issue my W felt blamed and shamed. I felt like she didn't care about my feelings, and instead she started to complain about almost everything - housework, kids, her career. I made changes to try to help her, but it felt like the more I tried, the more she pointed out problems. I had some resentment as I felt she was making no effort on her side to listen to what I had to say. I started to question whether she loved me, and on one occasion got fairly histrionic about it as I was looking for reassurance and she had none to give. I regret how I handled myself, and can see how she would experience it as me being wildly unpredictable. I was never verbally or physically abusive, but I did cry. By the time I pulled over the car in March to try to have a conversation with her (a terrible decision on my part), I was sure that she was thinking about leaving the marriage.
I don't minimize my role in what happened. I do think that we triggered each other. My W's extreme distance and unwillingness to have an open conversation, combined with my fear of abandonment and NGS issues, created this toxic stew. She experiences it as me being unpredictably emotional at times. This has scared her. She feels abused. I experience her as a controlling, cold, domineering person. I've come around on my issues quite a bit, but I don't feel she has.
I would have loved to talk about the episodes that have fed her fear in MC. She has not been willing to discuss so far. I wish we could have a mature adult conversation about it, where I could take my responsibility for what happened, rather than have my W letting her mind race and go to dark places. I have noticed when she does mention things, certain details have changed to the point they are untruthful, and it alarms me.
Here's an example: Back in May, pre-BD but while I was DB'ing, one of my GAL activities was to play guitar at night in our guest area. As this area is soundproof, it didn't wake up the kids, and sometimes I would sing. My W took this as me losing my marbles.
This is a big rambling mess of a post. I don't think she is using fear/abuse as a strategy to control the situation intentionally, but it certainly does feel very controlling on my side.
Thanks for your posts on my situation, unchien. I thought I'd come back and check in on yours.
There's a lot about what you said in this dynamic that resonates with me. I have been - and still am, in many ways, afraid of my H. I don't know if he'd say he felt controlled by my fear, but I suspect he does and I suspect he feels I use it as an excuse to avoid talking about things I don't want to talk about. He's said before that he thinks I get emotional unless I hear exactly what I want to hear. From my point of view, I feel emotional and hurt when he is argumentative, dismissive and unable to show some empathy, even if he fundamentally disagrees with my perception or is not able or willing to give me what I want.
I think what I've found difficult to understand is that he is also afraid of me! He's a large, well built and solid man. He bends to get through doors. I am short and slight. When he says he is feeling overwhelmed or upset, it LOOKS like anger to me. He goes blank faced sometimes and *stares* in a way I find very aggressive and upsetting. It looks extremely sinister and confrontational to me.
We have been talking more recently and he's shared that in those moments, when I see 'anger' and 'threat' and 'sinister silence' what was going on inside for him is that he was overwhelmed, scared and flooded and is 'cutting out'. He'd told me that when I am tearful and upset (I am never aggressive - I don't threaten violence physically or verbally or by gesture, but in the past I have cried a lot) he feels trapped, overwhelmed, and like he is never ever going to be able to get away unless he does whatever it is he thinks I want him to do to stop me crying. He in his own way felt very fearful of and controlled by my emotions.
We're not at the place where we'd do MC together, but what he doesn't seem to understand that in those moments of upset I want empathy, not compliance. That it is okay by me if he says 'no' but not okay by me if he says 'I don't care'. And caring and complying are entirely different things.
I don't know if any of things rings a bell or is remotely useful to you in your situation. My H was raised by a woman who was very loud and emotional and amongst sisters who are very loud and emotional so there may be childhood stuff for him that does not apply to you and your wife. I was raised by a violent and angry father - which will also play its part in how I perceive him and why I feel fear so easily. There may also be a 'Mars and Venus' thing going on in the way we express emotion and what we want to achieve in our interactions (he gets angry because he thinks I want him to fix things and he can't, I don't want him to fix things but want some compassion and contact which doesn't happen when he is angry - we trigger each other, as you said) that might also apply to you - though I'm loathe to reduce human beings to their gender.
Your post resonated so strongly that I'm not sure exactly how I want to react. Our situations are not identical by any means, but I do gain some understanding of my W's mindset from reading your posts, and how perhaps she is viewing me.
The biggest difference I see is that you have self-awareness and that has enabled you two to have some open, honest conversation. Regardless of what happens in your MR I think that is a really positive development for your co-parenting.
I haven't been drawn to the forums recently. Work has ramped up, life is busy, and all that is good. I had a great weekend with the kids.
Two weeks ago, my W agreed to work with me to arrange some parenting time for me (e.g., dinner with the kids) during my 10 day gaps. I brought it up this morning during our drop-off, as the kids were asking me when I would see them again. I have asked W 5-6 times in the last 2 weeks to let me know a good day or time for this. I also think it's always good to let the kids know the next time each of us will see them - this is like Separation/Divorce 101 advice for parents.
She responded really annoyed, and said, "So I'm just supposed to sit in my car outside the restaurant?"
Me: "No. I can drive the kids back your house after we finish" (the house is remote, but I don't mind).
Her: "I just feel like I'm sprinting a marathon running the kids around every day, and then there's this extra thing now.... And you can just leave work early to do this?"
Me: (holding back any reaction to this) "Absolutely."
Her: "OK we can talk about it tonight" (during our 1:1 phone call which she has avoided for the past 3 weeks).
I'm incredibly frustrated. No child development expert would say 10 days without parental contact with my kids' ages would be appropriate. My W committed to this two weeks ago. And when I'm trying to work with her, without getting emotional, she starts complaining how hard her life is.
I am trying really hard to follow MLCxH's recent advice - basically, try to handle my business and get what I want without resorting to D. And I know how most of us here focus on not taking the D step, this is D Busting after all. But some of these interactions with my W remind me of how controlling she was earlier in our MR too, how I let things slide, and how much it really bothered me then also. She has been projecting and mind-reading me for at least a year now, I feel like her description of me is like a completely different person than who I actually am. I just don't know if I could ever go back. I don't know why I'm even standing anymore.
This is where you man up and hold your ground. She doesn’t call tonight you call her and say you said we would talk about it tonight. Who gives a fuch if her life is tough, part of the consequences. It’s not D or bust there are in betweens. It starts with you getting what you want and what is fair. She’ll be pissed but she will secretly respect you for it.
School yard moment when you stand up to the bully.
I agree with LH here, life is tough for her because of her choices. She likely won't see it that way but stand your ground.
When I read your post above, you keep asking her for a good time or day to do this. Given that she always feels busy, there will never be a good time or day. Thus you don't get an answer.
Perhaps you could give a couple of options that work for you and let her pick one that she can make work too? Don't let her not answer or avoid the topic, stand your ground as this is important to you. Maybe she comes back with an alternate proposal; either way you get what you want.
Just don't be obviously eager to accept her proposal even if it is exactly what you want. A person likely shouldn't accept the first deal a car salesman pitches to them even if they would be willing to take it right that moment; they still take some time and think about it to see if the salesman will come back with a better offer to move the feigned indifference into a business deal. At least that is how I do it. :-)
Me40; W38; S12; D9 BD11/19/2018 D filed 12/20/18 D Final 7/2020 Being the best example I know how for my kids to see.
What frustrates me is that I know some days do work better than others for her, due to kids' after school activities. She has not been particularly forthcoming on these schedules (LB I think you shared a similar experience recently in your thread).
She’s not going to give into your requests because she doesn’t have to up to this point. Until you stick up for yourself and communicate your non-negotiables she will continue to get her way. Make sure this is addressed today.
You have put yourself in a really bad situation and you are now the person keeping yourself there. She will never, ever do anything to change the situation because you handed her more than she could ever win on her own in a separation on a silver platter - full financial support, nearly full custody (along with child support), and you vacated the family home. She has every reason to fight to maintain this situation forever. And, to any outside observer or judge, you are the bad husband and dad who left them and didn't bother to see them more than every other weekend. Every month this goes on, the more it cements as status quo. It is almost impossible to change status quo without some external force, which cant come from you. I know you said you want 50-50 in a few years but if you don't get it now, you never will.
You are fixated on her feelings, her apparent fear, but it is your fear that is the problem here. Those are your kids in your house - why cant you drive over and give them a hug? What is stopping you other than your own fear? I have seen both sides of this many times and I'm sure your wife is enjoying playing you for a sucker.
