The last straw

[LovingIt]

@sandi2

First of all, thanks for all your comments and time!

Some followup question to your WW comment above. Do you think if they are doing this consciously (premeditated), or subconsciously (chemically driven)?

[sandi2]

@sandi2

First of all, thanks for all your comments and time!

Some followup question to your WW comment above. Do you think if they are doing this consciously (premeditated), or subconsciously (chemically driven)?

These type questions causes me to answer with too many words, but I'll give it my best shot.

Waywardness is an act of free volition. It is not forced upon any woman to lose respect for her H. It begins with unresolved resentment that she's tried to push down and go on with her life, but it's still there in her heart. She may carry this unresolved resentment for years, and the H may have no idea. Since her sexual desire is tied to her level of respect for her H, sexual intimacy flies out the window pretty fast. Many couples have a SSM for years, and the H thinks she simply has a low drive.........no, she doesn't respect him, and that's the problem in the bedroom. Eventually, the loss of respect and unresolved resentment will breed and other negative attitudes are born. Selfishness becomes a big proponent, suggesting she deserves better, or this is her time to do what she wants, etc. The little signs of disrespect come more to the surface in forms of rebellion. Eventually the little signs grow into all out rebellion. She rebels against her H, the marriage.

I believe all forms of waywardness begins with a negative mental attitude about her spouse. It's not that she premeditates her negative emotions/attitude, but they are never resolved through forgiveness, therapy, etc. She might try certain solutions she read in a book, but found no success b/c she is either too depressed or has reached the dangerous point of believing her H will never change and she's giving up. Some women may try to let it go of their resentment and succeed, but for the women who can't/won't let it go.......they hang on to it and it brews and the negative junk feeds her mind/soul. So, every time she is let down or disappointed in her H, it's thrown into the big heap of marital lifetime resentments.

I wouldn't say that resentment is premeditated exactly, however, if she already has stinking thinking....she's not going to try and stop it when it comes knocking. She may even come to expect it, especially if her H never attempts to make changes. It's up to the individual to let resentment hang on, roll it over & over, festering in their heart. It's as if she has this little devil sitting on her shoulder whispering in her ear and reminding her of every wrong thing her H has done, and in fact, suggests that he is the problem of all her unhappiness.....and, she deserves better.

All of this grows and sprouts into other things that convinces the H she is completely nuts, and I can readily see how WW's reflect narcissism, especially when their rebellion is flourishing. IMHO, that's why a lot of H's believe it's due to MLC, menopausal, borderline personality, prescriptions, alcohol or something in her past is causing her to behave as if an alien has replaced the real woman he married. I do believe that certain medications can tip the scale, b/c anything that messes with your brain chemicals, is going to affect how you feel and how you process thoughts.

"Do you think if they are doing this consciously (premeditated), or subconsciously (chemically driven)?" Now it's getting deep and complicated. Waywardness definitely comes from a personal choice of that individual. If chemicals are added, it makes matters much worse, IMHO. I think alcohol and drugs can cause people to behave inappropriately or much worse. If she already had a wayward heart, then being under the influence might give her courage to do something more outrageous than if she wasn't taking anything. But what I want people to understand is there's a difference when one is acting under the influence of a chemical, and when one is acting from what's in the heart/soul.

I do believe waywardness is a progression that begins with deep resentment, disrespect, and rebellion. If not checked, it will worsen until she is nothing like the girl you married.

I'll have to stop here, or else I'm going to write a sloppy book. I would like very much to hear your story. How about starting a thread?

[Zip]

Well I have been off the grid for a while.

Need to post more and make the time to do so.

Found myself reading the dB and dr books and now want to re read them again. Great stuff! But with that said, I am finding myself second guessing my work as well as being very confused as to what I want. I am learning and growing in areas I should have been working on for years. Although there are many areas I found myself strong in, I am angry that I continued to lack in areas which, if I knew then what I know now would have potentially been a game changer for the M. Now I find myself getting angry at myself and would like to express my feelings with the W.

Good news is this opportunity has not come up even though I asked to have a discussion with her. This ha been a serious issue through the M whereby she will have a short conv and move on. The issue is still there but she is finished with it only to fester in her mind for years without addressing it. Best it has been on hold until I get myself in check. Learning a lot on self control, which I am still poor in doing. Need to work hard on this.

Realizing slowly it’s about ME, and not her at this point. I am slowly starting to realize I may be better without her. I find myself thinking this more often than not lately. This wavering in my mind has my emotions all over the board. Being in limbo with her and in my mind [censored].

I’ll be back to post tomorrow. Just need to get my feelings off my chest.....

Zip

[Zip]

Pretty uneventful day. Left for work and didn’t let W know I was leaving. She was a bit busy and I was running behind. The past couple weeks, when I went into her office to say GB, she just ignored me until I went out of her office. Feel like she doesn’t want me in there which my IC brought to light. Why don’t I see that as clear is beyond me. So with that I will avoid both her BR and Office.

An hr later I get a text, “ hope you have a good day”. Something I wouldn’t have received from her as much as 3 weeks ago. Gave her a thumbs up and left it at that. I just don’t feel I want to converse with her. For wanting to DB and save the M, I am sliding the other way. I feel my patience is really wearing on me. In the days of quick fixes and immediate satisfaction, I feel I am in limbo land. Pushing will result in a negative response so best to keep quiet. A major contributor to our issues is the lack of communication, a place we are bask at. Maybe it is time to push her to discuss the status? Know if I push a convo there won’t be any good of it. Waiting is where I have been w W. How do I move this off center , or do I let it lay?

Major issue is D27 wedding in June at the farm and I truly feel she is staying until then for her own benefit and no meaningful conversations to clarify her plans. I am in a pickle here with no good option. I could push the issue since she clearly stated she wants out, that we need to lay down some parameters moving forward. Still thinking her delaying may be she doesn’t know what she wants. It will be a long winter if she stays. Been 60 days since she supposedly requested a “Spousal waiver” from her L so she can go buy a house. Not one doc to date, makes me wonder what she is doing.

We are invited to a wedding this W/E and not sure I am included.. Was told I may be a problem at the wedding and she doesn’t want me to start any drama. No idea why she would say such a statement but, it’s now 45 days since she rsvp’d and I have no idea if I’m to go or stay. Hard to go to a wedding thAt I haven’t associated w the family for 3 yrs and they are aware of our sitch thru W. If I am invited, not sure I should go. Just not feeling it to be w the W. Feelings of detachment are setting in. Feel this is what she has wanted all along.

Need to get some sleep.... thanks for your time

Zip

[MrBrside]

Waywardness is an act of free volition. It is not forced upon any woman to lose respect for her H. It begins with unresolved resentment that she's tried to push down and go on with her life, but it's still there in her heart. She may carry this unresolved resentment for years, and the H may have no idea. Since her sexual desire is tied to her level of respect for her H, sexual intimacy flies out the window pretty fast. Many couples have a SSM for years, and the H thinks she simply has a low drive.........no, she doesn't respect him, and that's the problem in the bedroom. Eventually, the loss of respect and unresolved resentment will breed and other negative attitudes are born. Selfishness becomes a big proponent, suggesting she deserves better, or this is her time to do what she wants, etc. The little signs of disrespect come more to the surface in forms of rebellion. Eventually the little signs grow into all out rebellion. She rebels against her H, the marriage.

Hi Sandi,

Sorry to thread Hijack, but this is a great post. Really insightful.

My sitch is ancient history now and I’ve moved on, but whenever I read these sitchs ( all so similar ) I can never pinpoint what caused the lack of respect in my WAW. I rarely think about it in day or day life, but when I read stuff like your post above it always makes me wonder.

In my sitch, me and my WAW had an amazing relationship until our first daughter was born. There were one or two red flags, but generally we were in a great place. Plenty of affection, lots of great and exciting sex ( several times a day until the day before she gave birth ) , great communication, always fell asleep in each others arms and always doing things together... looking back now In a sad kind of way, It was like a fairy tail romance.. I am not seeing that period before D1 birth with rose tinted specs, there were loads of token gestures we kept and pictures of us looking madly in love, although I accept I ignored some red flags on her traits. She as a person was also very different ( she looks like a different person on photos now compared to before D1 was born) – Back then she was very “plain Jane” ( but naturally pretty ), wore average no designer clothes, no makeup, normal hair, out occasionally with her girl mates etc. She was a catch – a normal girl who wasn’t obsessed with herself or money / clothes / looks.. In her own words, she just wanted a “home bird” settled life.

Once our first daughter was born things changes very quickly ( which progressed a lot more over the next 6 years ) - Sex went from multiple times a day to once a week “get it over with quickly ” if lucky ( blamed tiredness from the baby usually ), and over the next few years she went from Plain Jane to a botox, boob jobbed, self-obsessed, spending on clothes obsessed, selfie lover who started to drink every single night and go out every other weekend. Looking back now it was obvious how she had little respect, just by little comments ( i.e. she used to love to drive my sports car, but after daughter was born, she always referred to it as a “chavvy car” that I needesd to sell)

Now its only natural to expect a mother to give 100% to her new born, at the expense of our relationship to a degree – and I have no doubt that I went from Alpha to Beta once our daughter was born, but I doubt that happened overnight.
Can a new born baby cause the resentment you mention above ? Could it be the life she lost ( ie working, independence, socialising ) to being a full time mum while I got to go to work and carry on as normal – could that cause the resentment?
You touch upon BPD and Narasasim. My WAW shows a lot of traits of both of these and still does on the limited contact I have with her. I find it shocking how a person can change so much. Now i feel she see cares more about herself than the children. When our first was born, all the pictures on the phone were of D1.. Before she left, her phone was 100% selfies ( sometimes including the children ) – but always including her.. I will never understand what made a person change so much and actually before everything they used to hate.

But really love the time you spend giving the LBS the insight..

[Zip]

Was asked to go to the wedding Thursday for the Saturday event. She said it snuck up on her and needed to know if I was going and needed an a seer right then. My concern in going is for a group of her friends from the beach in which I have been pretty much shunned from going. Quite frankly, I am not close to any of them due to the lack of always having to stay home and attend to everyone’s animals.

I did go but was reluctant, although I felt I needed to go being both D27 and fiancé, and D23 w BF were going. I saw no way out with all of them attending. Most disturbing is my W has stopped wearing her wedding rings since 8/4/19 it has been a real internal issue of mine which she is aware of from the past not wearing them. I knew this would be the case and it put me in a low spot which resulted in me not wearing mine. Quite childish on my behalf but warned to make a point. Not a word said from anyone....which was good. The problem is I am here on the board and am feeling there are glimpses of her being nice.....just nice, and I feel there should be more movement in one direction or another. There hasn’t been any discussions regarding a D in 45 days. I find it hard to not think a D is eminent and can’t get this thought out of my head. I am really struggling with this. Def not what I want but feel I am wasting my time and only setting myself up for a letdown.

I really need some feedback on whether this thought process s common or not and additionally some insight into how to handle it. Any help would be so greatly appreciated!!

Overall the wedding was okay....W was not very warm to me during the night but was better when we got home. I think some of her attitude could have been due to her personal friends she has talked to regarding the sitch and could have felt a bit uncomfortable with me there.

It’s late and should be getting rest. Hope my post makes some sense, if not I’ll try to be more clear tomorrow.

Thanks for any input you can give.


Zip

[LH19]

Z,

It is very common for the LBS to feel that way. The problem is if you are sitting around the house moping and feeling sorry for yourself that is unattractive.

The best thing to do is not worry about things you can’t control. Detach, work on you 180s and GAL your a$$ off!

[Zip]

LH thanks for reading. I agree that action is very much unattractive. It isn’t me as I can’t keep up with the chores on the farm let alone getting ready for D27’s wedding next summer. There is so much to do with what seems a lot of time but it gets away fast so no problem staying busy in that regard.

The issue is simply that she moved to the back br and has been there since 8/4. Minimal communication on issues and was made clear she wanted out since 5/20 at the first MC session. The true end was the pic incident that made her convinced she was done on 8/4. The real truth is she is nothing more than a roommate that has been living under the same roof for over 3 yrs now. Just had our 32 nd Anniversary and will probably be the last. No intimacy for years and I have put up with it for unknown reasons other than thinking she may change and that I love her. This is now becoming more difficult as she is probably going to stay here until the wedding next June then leave. No conversations about it as she won’t discuss. It’s a control issue and she feels she has the upper hand due to my actions.

Her last conversation was 3 weeks ago when she said she was still waiting on her L to draft a spouse waiver so she can buy a house. This has now been over 60 days in the works, and no documents. Additionally, no signs of looking for a house either although she may and I wouldn’t know. Her life is still the same other than sleeping in the other room. No affection at all...no goodnight..nothing unless I initiate it. Then maybe a hug and a kiss on her cheek.

It’s getting really old and wearing me down. I believe she wants me to be the bad guy and file, not her although she is the one who demanded a D. Not once but many times. For her to go, she needs to relocate her office from the house or commute back to the house until she moves. Her life is status quo, no changes at all. In fact she is in a place where she wants to be...alone but at home...and she can tolerate me as she can regulate what she does with me which is minimal.

I thought time was a good thing, but at 58, I’m wondering how long I have to live my life like roommates. Writing this is just infuriating. I’m at a loss.... if the M could be rekindled and there was affection and intimacy, I want to work on it but as it has been it’s not worth the heartache and stress.

Just been beaten down and running very low on patience. Read DB and DR which gave me hope but it’s so easy to feel defeated when such little change takes place.

Any insight is much appreciated

Zip

[LH19]

Z,

There isn't really anything you can do right now accept to wait it out unless your ready to file for divorce.

I think it's best to hope for the best but start preparing for the worse.

[AnotherStander]

The real truth is she is nothing more than a roommate that has been living under the same roof for over 3 yrs now. Just had our 32 nd Anniversary and will probably be the last. No intimacy for years and I have put up with it for unknown reasons other than thinking she may change and that I love her.

This seems to happen a lot in long-term marriages, this loss of passion. My XW and I still had sex regularly, but I had told her several times in the later years that it felt like we were just roommates. It's hard to raise kids and both work and still keep the passion alive, and we didn't. Sometimes the couple stays together anyway, but sometimes one of them decides they want more out of life.

Her last conversation was 3 weeks ago when she said she was still waiting on her L to draft a spouse waiver so she can buy a house. This has now been over 60 days in the works, and no documents. Additionally, no signs of looking for a house either although she may and I wouldn’t know.

Just leave that to her to work out. Try to quit spending a lot of brainpower on what she's doing, what she might do, what she's thinking about, what it all means.

I believe she wants me to be the bad guy and file

This is one case where you should be more than happy to disappoint her.

I thought time was a good thing, but at 58, I’m wondering how long I have to live my life like roommates.

I'm 58 as well. You're probably having a lot of the same thoughts that I have- how much longer do I have on this world? How long will I be able to perform sexually? How many "good" years do I have left, and do I want to spend them as I have been or do I want to implement some changes? I'm very fit and healthy, but at this age one major ailment could strip all that away quickly. So yes I hear you, and yes you do need to consider those things in deciding what direction you want your life to take. My XW left because she wanted change in her life, and she did make a lot of changes. I wanted things to stay the same, but looking back I think it was just complacency. I've made many changes since then and my life is more fulfilling as a result. So even though BD, S and D was the most painful thing I've ever been through, it was the kick in the pants I needed to really embrace life.

Writing this is just infuriating. I’m at a loss.... if the M could be rekindled and there was affection and intimacy, I want to work on it but as it has been it’s not worth the heartache and stress.

Unfortunately there are no guarantees. You can DB your heart out and you might establish a new relationship with your wife that is even more fulfilling. Or she may leave and never look back. But even at 58 you have time, there's no need to rush things. Keep reading, keep DB'ing, keep working on yourself and give her time and space. Eventually your path will become more clear.