I've been on this forum for the past 2 weeks, reading all the DB threads for newcomers, Sandi's threads on WW, MWD’s book, and everyone else’s story. Thanks to the veterans for your wisdom and time, and I’m sorry for everyone else’s pain.
Here is my story so far… I’ll try and stick to the facts (from my VP), notable milestones, and skip the daily conversations / lies – maybe I’ll follow that up in another post or if anyone has questions.
H: 40 WW: 37 Married: 7 years Together: 16 years No kids (thankfully)
July 2019 - Initial BD
I noticed some weird behavior with W, and upon further digging discovered text clearly indicating EA with a co-worker who was also unhappily married. Followed by couple weeks of lies about ending it with AP. Then during a drunk argument at home, she called AP to pick her up, and ended up spending the night at a hotel with AP.
I immediately went into crisis mode while dealing with the initial trauma and started researching A’s and whether or not that I or MR can survive / recover from it. Mostly because prior to this, I was always convinced that PA’s are black and white, and that I would immediately D. I tried to get her to watched of online videos and read articles on recovery / healing, but she half-hearted attempted but not committed.
Aug 2019 – Another BD (wait for it… it gets better)
… still living together and pretending to function daily as a couple with frequent MR discussions.
W comes home from work HH drunk and decides to BD some more:
~5 years ago, she had an ongoing 1-year PA with OM who was close couple friend of ours. This one hurt quite a bit being betrayed by a friend, but at the same time made me feel sane somewhat. Since W and I actually had several arguments back then about why she would be texting and deleting text with him, and also why she had a sudden negative change of attitude towards OM. Come to find out that he ended the A after he broke up with his GF and met someone new.
~4 years ago, she came home in the wee hours after a work event because she was drunk and ended up at male coworker’s place. Honestly, one-night stand seems like peanuts to me compared to the other stuff…
Given the severity of multiple BDs… we decided to get MC to help us. The first couple of sessions help surface some underlying resentment and communication gaps, but after that, it felt like it was going around in circles regarding guilt and resentment that W was clearly not ready / willing to let go. Not to mention that after the first session, W had another episode where we got into an argument in the morning, and she ended up drinking too much at work social event then staying in a hotel with AP that night.
Sept 2019 –
… somehow still living together and pretending to function daily as a couple with frequent MR discussions (lots of cake eating on W part, but I made sure it tasted bad with all the discussions :P)
Attended a couple more MC sessions, but between contact with AP and episode of not coming home, the therapist politely mentioned that she typically does not do counseling with couples when there is AP involved still. The therapist even suggested that one of us move out to get separation if she continues to do this and I was not okay with it. We did agree that it's not okay for her to disrespect me, and expect me to respect her coming home.
Following Friday, she left for work in the morning perfectly fine, somehow after work drinking, she decided to stay the night at hotel with AP. Came back briefly on Saturday apologized about hurting me only, then left to dinner and talk with AP. She mentioned to me that she can’t continue to be pulled in 2 different directions every day, and she needed some space to figure out what she wants. She came back Sunday to pack some stuff, come to find out she got a short-term rental over the weekend and moved out. I don't know if it was triggered by the talk with the therapist, or she just wanted to be with the AP, or both - I assumed the worst.
At this point, I was both in shock and numb from all the recurring trauma. I was desperately searching for answers and discovered DB and another website (MB). This is where I learned and recognized the patterns of WW, and that I needed to let her go and do NC, GAL, 180, etc...
… it’s been 2 weeks since the unofficial S.
W frantically reached out last week wanting to talk about us. I tried to avoid it, but she pushed for it, so I caved in last week and we talked a bit, grabbed dinner, then I dropped her off... I know, I know… Sorry!
She mentioned that she was struggling emotionally at home and work sometimes. She also said that having some space gave her some clarity and that MR had a lot of good things. She keeps thinking back years ago wondering if we could have done things differently somehow, even though we clearly were not communicating effectively then. She is torn between not wanting to throw everything away, yet not being able to let go of the guilt of walking all over the relationship, or as I interpret it… not able to let go of the EA/AP. I told her that it didn’t work when I tried to fix her, so this is a journey she needs to go on alone to figure out, and that she should get her own IC and talk to some safe people. I tried to validate, but honestly, it's something that I suck at - feels fake.
So we are effectively in S / Limbo for now.
Random thoughts up to this point –
- Seems to be recurring theme with drinking and something bad happening. Compulsive drinking (not me) has contributed to many past arguments in the relationship outside of EA.
- For years, I had anger issues (yelling, throwing / breaking stuff, name calling), did not speak her love language and neglected her emotional needs (even though we actually spent a lot of time doing activities together), and dismissed her when she asked / nagged for help out around the house (often escalated into bad arguments). I understand that I am not responsible for her actions, but I understand how it contributed or helped led us down that path. I now am aware and doing a 180 to better myself for any future relationship whether it’s for this MR or other.
- I made the mistake of attempting to fix W and MR upon BD. I am now aware of the WW mind set, as all the behavioral patterns match up. She was clearly not ready or wanting to move forward together, and I was pushing her away. I am letting her go on her own journey.
- I don’t think I would have enforced the unofficial S myself, we kind of fell into it. After some initial adjustment and research, I honestly think it’s been good for us to detach, GAL, NC, 180 and manage my daily emotions. I have enough friends, activities, hobbies, work to keep me busy 50% of time. When I’m having a bad day and spiraling, I just come read the site and re-read all the rules.
- There are some sh*tty people out there: spouses, friends, co-workers, M/F that would do these things. I have lost a lot of faith in people in general.
- It seems that any long-term relationship regardless of my actions can build up resentment towards WS / MLC, and it is sad how relationships end. How do you know if the next person doesn’t turn out like this after 10-15 years? I always thought you could spot the crazies a mile away, and my D friends were just really bad at spotting them. However, meeting someone and having them read relationship books seems like a romance killer… “Hey, I have so much baggage from my prior relationship, you should read these books before we have a relationship!”
- So far, it’s been an interesting journey learning about me, WW, relationships, H/W dynamics and communication, brain chemistry addiction and attachment. There are a lot of overlapping materials on this, and most of the behavioral patterns identified are spot on.
- I also have much more empathy for the pain that other people go thru when dealing with EA or D, both sides.
- Is W serial? Or just one long case of WW that was never exposed and healed, with necessary changes in the MR. Seems like with no kids, and both working and able to support ourselves, it seems obvious to just D and run for the hills. Everyone seems to say don’t make these life decisions while I’m emotional.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Sorry you are here but you came to the right place. (Interesting name BTW).
I think it's good that your separated and I think you need to live your life like your truly separated. Doesn't mean to date but she needs to wonder about you. Right now she's holding onto the security blanket (You) while seeing if the OM is a long term option.
So what you have to decide is are you ok with being plan b. What are you values? It's good you don't have kids and both work so this separation could be about focusing on you and what you want out of the rest your life. It is going to take a really long time and hard work to come back from this and serial cheaters are the lowest of the low as far as waywards are concerned.
The quickest way back is to go in the complete opposite direction. Detach, GAL focus on you and read up on boundaries. We are here for you.
Loving, she really sounds like a serial cheater to me. And she doesn't even care, she's just blatantly disrespecting you and the M by getting drunk and spending the night with an OM right under your nose. The situations I've seen like this just never change. You work hard to recon, things are great for a while, then off she goes sleeping around again. Wash, rinse, repeat. Cheaters are almost always serial liars as well and typically offer up just enough info to satisfy their spouse that they are telling the truth, which they are usually not. I would not be at all surprised if what you know about is actually a fraction of her "activities". Usually at this part the "cheatee" says "Oh no, I'm convinced she told me everything" and then somewhere down the road finds out that indeed, there was a lot more going on than they realized.
This is a marriage-saving site, but the path to saving your M is a little unconventional in that you save it by letting go of it. You give her time and space, stop all pursuit, stop all R talks, work on yourself, get out and GAL. The timeline is very long, much longer than most people have patience for. Especially with cheaters because once they are out of the house then they spend a lot of time sowing their wild oats before coming to their senses.
I agree with LH on separation, it hurts but it's the best way to give your W the time and space she needs. It was a good idea from the perspective of working on your M. Plus YOU need time and space to process this too.
Here's my question to you- do you even want to be married to a serial cheater? Are you holding onto the hope that maybe she will change and stop this behavior? And what if she doesn't?
Just curious - has she ever voiced up that her alcohol consumption is a problem? You situation is interesting to me as it seems she really goes from one extreme to the other (wanting to fix the marriage vs. leaving to outright be with the OM). I feel like you need to setup a boundary saying: either the alcohol goes or you go.
I have found GAL/detaching to be extremely helpful in my scenario too.
Lastly, it is amazing to me how many toxic/damaged people are out there. I met someone divorced since 2007 and her mental wounds were still really fresh. Seems it all boils down to you doing the work, and being able to make yourself whole before going out to find someone else.
Definitely check out sandi2's posts in Cadet's inital thread on WW/WAS.
I met someone divorced since 2007 and her mental wounds were still really fresh.
Unfortunately some people just really struggle with moving on. My brother has been divorced for 10+ years and still harbors so much anger and resentment towards his XW. He's never even so much as gone out on a date again, just basically hates on all women because of his XW leaving him. It doesn't have to be that way, many of us here have moved on and have new relationships that are often far better than our marriages were. And we have a new appreciation for it and work a lot harder to maintain it.
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Seems it all boils down to you doing the work, and being able to make yourself whole before going out to find someone else.
Yes this is very true. We often tell people not to rush into dating after going through BD because that has a way of masking things and preventing us from doing the personal work we should be doing to move on (or recon) in a more positive manner.
Sounds a lot like my sitch. I was in your shoes a year ago. If she wants to "talk about us" again, you really need to slow play it. Keep your cards close the vest. A great DB phrase is "Believe nothing they say and only half of what they do". Keep that phrase in mind alwasy.
Work on your validation. If you give her space, and take time to heal/learn/grow yourself I believe you have a bright future ahead of you. She clearly cares about you enough to keep coming around, but on the other hand she's done this multiple times over the year. So you need to accept that for what it truly is and that is not good. She needs this time to figure her own stuff out. Try not to muddy it up by being weak and pursuing. Don't show her your emotions.
You nailed this on this head:
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She is torn between not wanting to throw everything away, yet not being able to let go of the guilt of walking all over the relationship, or as I interpret it… not able to let go of the EA/AP.
The wayward spouses never care about the marriage as much as they care about their perfect fantasy that exists in the affair but they can't say that out loud so what they say is some verbal vomit.
You listed some things you can work on like breaking things in anger. What the heck is that? Don't do that my man!!! When your gf/by/wife/husband asks for help you usually should give it to them. Relationships feel like more give then take because we are selfish by nature.
Keep posting. I think you are a quick learner.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Sorry you are here but you came to the right place. (Interesting name BTW).
Regarding my handle, I have a real dry sarcastic sense of humor, and I tend to make light of situations...
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Here's my question to you- do you even want to be married to a serial cheater? Are you holding onto the hope that maybe she will change and stop this behavior? And what if she doesn't?
This is the first time that I've been confronted with this situation, so I don't have a clear cut answer yet. I flip flop on my thoughts on this daily. Since I've done my share of mistakes, I'd like us to both learn from our mistakes and have an opportunity to see if it is salvageable. I feel like up to this point, we never really truly communicated the underlying issues as with all MR with built up resentment.
Having said that, it's hard to have a fair chance with AP/OM and fog in the picture right now. Or maybe really there is no such thing as fog, and I'm just not wanting to hear the message. I'm constantly reminding myself of that possibility too.
I guess this is why most people are here in the first place? :P
Originally Posted by firemann
Just curious - has she ever voiced up that her alcohol consumption is a problem? You situation is interesting to me as it seems she really goes from one extreme to the other (wanting to fix the marriage vs. leaving to outright be with the OM). I feel like you need to setup a boundary saying: either the alcohol goes or you go.
We've discussed it and attempted to drink "responsibly" without professional help. It always seems to slip back into habit. I like drinking too, so I don't want to pretend that I'm perfect... just not as compulsive.
Alcohol surfaces / exaggerates issues by lowering inhibition, but I assume the desire is somewhere in the back of the mind? Just in the news recently, someone got drunk and went out and shot a bunch of people, I don't think normal people do that due to alcohol...
Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
You listed some things you can work on like breaking things in anger. What the heck is that? Don't do that my man!!! When your gf/by/wife/husband asks for help you usually should give it to them. Relationships feel like more give then take because we are selfish by nature.
Thanks, I know... I've done a 180 on this after realizing the long lasting damage it can cause a relationship.
Sounds a lot like my sitch. I was in your shoes a year ago. If she wants to "talk about us" again, you really need to slow play it. Keep your cards close the vest. A great DB phrase is "Believe nothing they say and only half of what they do". Keep that phrase in mind alwasy.
WW wants to talk again this coming Saturday... I'm not reaching out at all. What do you mean "slow play"?
Find something better to do like hang out with friends, go play a sport, walk through the pretty part of town,or go read at a coffee shop. Don't go to meet her. She's just seeing if she can control you and to see if you want her bad enough to go pursue her at this meeting. And if you go she's going to toy with you and play mind games.
Slow play means just take your time, don't agree to anything right away.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
