I'm definitely in a bit of a depression. I recognize it so much better now, but also don't deny that I am depressed. Some mild panic attacks. I'll get through it but I know the next few months will be rough. The beginning of fall and shorter days is not going to help. I know this about myself, which also helps me know I will pull through it eventually.
I did feel some relief when my W said she fell out of love awhile ago. I felt relieved to hear she has been feeling this way for a long time. It explained so much. It also made me frustrated. I really believe the disruption of our relocation 2 years ago, including the stress of making the decision beforehand, was the cause of all this. Neither of us was equipped to handle the stress, or support each other, in the ways we needed. I think my W resents me for the move, and maybe doesn't realize that part of it. There's no going back, although I do wonder had we not moved, would our MR be different? Maybe so. Would I be happier? I don't know.
The custody issue is a really tough one for me. I honestly believe with all the logistical realities and setting feelings aside, a transitional period towards 50/50 will be best for my kids, if we can agree to that.
This is really just the beginning of the disruption of this divorce. The big logistical hurdle right now is going to be where we both decide to live, and hopefully that is near each other for the sake of our kids (my viewpoint, not sure about hers). There are 2 sensible areas: one is near where I live now, but that is expensive. Anywhere else is going to be a bad neighborhood, or so expensive that it means a 2BR apartment. I doubt either of us want that. Another area is about 30 minutes away, much more affordable, better place for kids, but a longer commute for me to work (although I can telecommute some days).
My W wants to discuss the house next week, so this ball is going to get rolling. It seems like now that she saw the numbers, and how we are digging a hole the longer the separation goes, she is geared up to push things through. I am completely on board with this. I can only assume she is talking about selling the house, unless she wants to try to arrange buying me out and refinancing it. I think she realizes she will not be able to stay there regardless.
It's all so overwhelming. Looking at the numbers I think the next 2 years are going to be really really hard. I worry about the impact to the kids. I have no idea where we will settle down. Being divorced in this area of the country is a nightmare. My rental feels small and cheap, and yet, I don't think I can afford it long-term with these support payments.
U, sounds like you handled the conversation really well, good job! You stuck to your guns, did not accept her (crazy) terms, insisted on more visitation. Good! Yes it's emotionally draining but you got your expectations for D out there and that was the hard part. As for this part:
Quote
She said she was waiting for me to "win her back."
Straight out of the ol' WAS script handbook. Don't believe it for a second.
AS - Thank you, I really needed some positive feedback to lift me up a bit.
I know that it's crazy for someone to say they were waiting to be won back. That's a Hollywood version of life and not how real relationships work. I do know that I contributed to her falling out of love. We had a toxic dynamic. Combine 3 kids, a stressful relocation with massive career changes...
I'm sure I'm not the only person here who looks back and thinks things could have been different. That it didn't have to turn out this way. But it did.
The anxiety flooding and minor panic attacks returning are rough. I know the feeling well, I know I'll get through it, but I still absolutely hate it.
our Choice is literally between outcomes 1 or 2. These are your options. Right now you are actively choosing Option 1 based on your actions. If you want to, you can change your track and choose Option 2. The steps are easy - don't go to MC, retain a lawyer, instruct them to file for divorce or legal separation with 50-50 custody, fixed period of spousal support, and force the sale of the house, and communicate with your waw solely through email, cc'ing your lawyer.
unchien I have been following your sitch since I got here and have couple thoughts since I went through the whole divorce process with custody issues. It sounds like you are on at least speaking terms with your W and are able to communicate somewhat reasonably with her. Be prepared that all this will change when the D starts to happen. No NGS during the divorce and please please please get a lawyer. She decided to leave a long time ago and has been planning since. She is light years ahead of you in thinking about custody, finances, where to live, and going over scenarios on how to be in the best position after (you may not believe it but it is true). She has likely already talked to many people about how to be in the best position possible to get your money and the children. You have been blindsided and have been working on self improvement in hopes of reconciliation. She has not. If you are going through with D stop talking now, because everything will be used against you in court. All communication should go through lawyer or email. Do not agree to anything unless you have had lawyer look at it. If you thought W changed her attitude towards you when she walked away just wait for the divorce to happen.
My XW talked to me before the D and told me what she wanted and we agreed on everything. It seemed to good to be true. I found out behind my back she was talking to her friends on how best she could hurt me. She never cussed in her life when we were together but I saw texts from her to her friends that used every four letter word possible against me. At the same time she was talking with her friends I would get emails from her that were friendly and nice. I hope that is not the case with you but please unchien protect yourself.
1st BD December 26, 2008 PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008
2nd BD May 23, 2019 Daughter confirms EA Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
I can't echo more what AS, LH, and Rooskers have said.
I know custody is tough but get 50/50 now instead of delaying it for the future. You don't know how amenable W will be in the future to make amendments to your separation and divorce agreements. You're just kicking a whirl of trouble down the road rather than dealing with it all right now.
With how things have gone down with your W, I couldn't agree more about talking through these things with a lawyer on your side. We never want things to be adversarial, but taking precaution is better than regretting it later. Don't make any agreements that are off the cuff. I know this $ucks, but keep in mind you are trying to protect and have what's best for the children.
And like AS said, she's telling you stuff right outta the script. Don't believe any of it. Also, it's a ridiculous expectation that you should've read her mind and done things differently.
Hang in there! The other side of all of this nonsense is glorious. Right now protect yourself and your kids. The other stuff will come.
U, I feel you handled the conversation well. It is natural to be depressed when something like this actually happens even if you had an idea it was going to happen. We go through a grieving process and it takes time to heal. Expect to have emotional ups and downs and know that however hard it may seem, you will heal and feel better over time. One piece of advice is to not look back and wonder "what if". WAS say a lot of things that make us feel like we could have saved the marriage if we had done something different. Over the course of a year I addressed a lot of the grievances that my ex had but in the end she always found some reason to justify her decision. So, don't think back about what you could have done to save the marriage or "win her back". Focus on what needs to be done going forward.
This is my opinion, but I feel that filing may actually work out better for you given your current sitch. Based on your posts, it appeared the MR was dead and your W was not motivated to try to R. You were already separated and the financial & custody terms did not seem favorable to you. Made me wonder what was preventing you from filing since you seemed to have all the disadvantages of being D without a lot of the benefits.
Read the posts by the others above, there is some good advice there especially about having a good lawyer to represent you.
You have come a long way since your first few posts and I have seen you grow over the months. Focus on your kids and take care of yourself. Stay strong my friend, it will get better!
The #1 thing harped on in law school with regard to custody is the court will only make changes to the custody arrangement initially ordered if it passes the "best interests of the child" test. That is the standard the court always uses with regard to petitions for modifications. Now, the argument can be made that equal parenting time is in the best interests of the child(ren). However, she can (and I'm sure will) argue that to make such drastic changes to their environment and lives isn't. Its a tough one and one I'm not sure you really want to roll the dice on.
If you are wanting something that trends toward 50/50 down the road, that absolutely needs to be built into the initial Stipulation and Agreement. Don't just assume or plan on being able to come to that agreement down the road. Some sort of adjustment after a few years should be agreed to, signed and executed by you and your STBExW from the get-go. That's just my opinion on it. I can't count how many times I've either had people come to me or heard the horror stories of LBS just going along with their WAS or WS wishes hoping that by being amenable will bring them back or thinking that kicking that can down the road is easiest and they end up getting fuched in the end.
As the saying goes....when you 'assume' you make an 'ASS out of U and ME' ;-)
M: 34 W:34 D:7 D:6 S:3
M: 9.5 years T: 12
OM found & BD (by me): 9/19/18 IHS begins W informs me she's moving out: 11/28/18 W files: 12/21/18 D Final: 2/25/19
She is light years ahead of you in thinking about custody, finances, where to live, and going over scenarios on how to be in the best position after (you may not believe it but it is true). She has likely already talked to many people about how to be in the best position possible to get your money and the children. You have been blindsided and have been working on self improvement in hopes of reconciliation. She has not.
I think you are right that she has choreographed the last several months. I wouldn't say I was blindsided, because I assumed we would D. But I do realize by some of her comments she has done her own legwork investigating what works best for her.
During the last 6 months, I have consulted friends (and a L) about my custody and financial options. I knew this was coming, although I was obviously not fully emotionally prepared. I don't feel completely blindsided as far as what my options are.
One thing I should say - my W does value her career. But she has a dream scenario where she works 2-3 days per week and spends a ton of time with the kids. She is not trying to leverage a SAHM deal out of this. The problem I have is that I should not be subsidizing her dream lifestyle. It will be pitched as if her slowly ramping up is a better transition for the kids.
Originally Posted by Maika
I know custody is tough but get 50/50 now instead of delaying it for the future. You don't know how amenable W will be in the future to make amendments to your separation and divorce agreements. You're just kicking a whirl of trouble down the road rather than dealing with it all right now.
One thing I want to investigate is if future 50/50 can be written into the divorce agreement up front. For instance, I don't know, we do 40/60 for a year, then transition to 50/50. No idea if this is possible to write in up front. It is honestly what I want though.
Originally Posted by MLCxH
This is my opinion, but I feel that filing may actually work out better for you given your current sitch. Based on your posts, it appeared the MR was dead and your W was not motivated to try to R. You were already separated and the financial & custody terms did not seem favorable to you. Made me wonder what was preventing you from filing since you seemed to have all the disadvantages of being D without a lot of the benefits.
Read the posts by the others above, there is some good advice there especially about having a good lawyer to represent you.
MR was completely dead. More dead than I even thought. No point digging a hole every month financially for no greater purpose.
Looking back on everything, I understand much of my W's behavior. When our MR was unraveling, she got this idea in her head that I was scary and unpredictable. It explains so much of what happened in the last year plus.
I was living in a lot of fear myself especially since April. I have no doubts she considered plans to get full custody and move back to her hometown. Out of fear I gave way on many details to avoid a legal situation during the separation.
My W has remarked that I seem calmer and happier the last few times we have talked. I think she recognizes that I am not a scary monster. She doesn't want to cut me out of the kids' lives. She does seem nicer now. She brought over some Halloween decorations for my house. I recognize this could be just a "nice" phase and I should be prepared for more ugliness.
I know she probably wants >50/50 in perpetuity, and an easy landing for her to ramp up her career slowly, and there will be some friction and yes I will likely need a L at some point to help me out. At the moment I do not worry that she will lawyer up and threaten to leave with the kids, but I also know things may change. She may be having a flood of temporary goodwill.
The #1 thing harped on in law school with regard to custody is the court will only make changes to the custody arrangement initially ordered if it passes the "best interests of the child" test. That is the standard the court always uses with regard to petitions for modifications. Now, the argument can be made that equal parenting time is in the best interests of the child(ren). However, she can (and I'm sure will) argue that to make such drastic changes to their environment and lives isn't. Its a tough one and one I'm not sure you really want to roll the dice on.
If you are wanting something that trends toward 50/50 down the road, that absolutely needs to be built into the initial Stipulation and Agreement. Don't just assume or plan on being able to come to that agreement down the road. Some sort of adjustment after a few years should be agreed to, signed and executed by you and your STBExW from the get-go. That's just my opinion on it. I can't count how many times I've either had people come to me or heard the horror stories of LBS just going along with their WAS or WS wishes hoping that by being amenable will bring them back or thinking that kicking that can down the road is easiest and they end up getting fuched in the end.
As the saying goes....when you 'assume' you make an 'ASS out of U and ME' ;-)
Wanted -
Thank you so much for posting this.
I will *absolutely not* assume we can hit 50/50 in the future. I know not to count on this.
What I think I want to do (still mulling this over) is what you suggest - building in 50/50 down the road into the initial stipulation and agreement.
My other option is go for 50/50 now. That would assuredly put us in court.
I am really struggling with this question.
On the one hand, starting at less than 50/50 is an easier transition for everybody. But I recognize this might be my Nice Guy tendencies, and I need to think hard about this. Even if "future 50/50" is written into the legal agreement, I'm sure there are pitfalls to getting that done when the time comes.
On the other hand, starting at 50/50 would be more challenging up front for everyone (me, wife, kids), and probably involve a lot more legal and emotional turmoil. But if I got it, we would be set going forward.
I'm really torn emotionally on this question. I can't describe how torn I am.
The #1 thing harped on in law school with regard to custody is the court will only make changes to the custody arrangement initially ordered if it passes the "best interests of the child" test. That is the standard the court always uses with regard to petitions for modifications. Now, the argument can be made that equal parenting time is in the best interests of the child(ren). However, she can (and I'm sure will) argue that to make such drastic changes to their environment and lives isn't. Its a tough one and one I'm not sure you really want to roll the dice on.
If you are wanting something that trends toward 50/50 down the road, that absolutely needs to be built into the initial Stipulation and Agreement. Don't just assume or plan on being able to come to that agreement down the road. Some sort of adjustment after a few years should be agreed to, signed and executed by you and your STBExW from the get-go. That's just my opinion on it. I can't count how many times I've either had people come to me or heard the horror stories of LBS just going along with their WAS or WS wishes hoping that by being amenable will bring them back or thinking that kicking that can down the road is easiest and they end up getting fuched in the end.
As the saying goes....when you 'assume' you make an 'ASS out of U and ME' ;-)
Wanted -
Thank you so much for posting this.
I will *absolutely not* assume we can hit 50/50 in the future. I know not to count on this.
What I think I want to do (still mulling this over) is what you suggest - building in 50/50 down the road into the initial stipulation and agreement.
My other option is go for 50/50 now. That would assuredly put us in court.
I am really struggling with this question.
On the one hand, starting at less than 50/50 is an easier transition for everybody. But I recognize this might be my Nice Guy tendencies, and I need to think hard about this. Even if "future 50/50" is written into the legal agreement, I'm sure there are pitfalls to getting that done when the time comes.
On the other hand, starting at 50/50 would be more challenging up front for everyone (me, wife, kids), and probably involve a lot more legal and emotional turmoil. But if I got it, we would be set going forward.
I'm really torn emotionally on this question. I can't describe how torn I am.
Yep, I understand completely. I was in a similar situation. ExW and I worked together. When she flew the coop she saddled me with two offices and all the workload. So, I had to navigate handling double the workload plus caring for 3 kids under 7 50% of the time. I knew I had to figure it out on the fly so that I was set for the future as far as custody was concerned. Let me tell you, it was a massive adjustment. But like everything, now it has become the norm and isn’t an issue at all. I feel like you should do 50/50 right now and make it work for the time being. It’ll get better and easier. Then you aren’t stressed about the what if’s down the road. If it’s gonna be a battle, might as well wage war now and get it over with. Plus, the added respect she might gain for you is an added bonus.
M: 34 W:34 D:7 D:6 S:3
M: 9.5 years T: 12
OM found & BD (by me): 9/19/18 IHS begins W informs me she's moving out: 11/28/18 W files: 12/21/18 D Final: 2/25/19
