A parallel universe

[Gekko]

Hey DS9, I just read through your sitch and you are making good strides given a challenging XW personality.

Raised by an abusive father, and then her first H was abusive as well? Did she/is she seeing a counselor to work through the huge impact these relationships have had on her?

So now she may be having a MLC, and she's following an astrology report like a script in making her life decisions? Okay then....

Before BD, were you truly happy in the M with your XW calling the shots and you carrying out "her vision", as you say? What was the dynamic between your parents in your household growing up?

As for your Dbing I see you are doing pretty well overall. I understand feeling somewhat triggered by your XW's "friendly reminder" texts LOL as I get them too. It's her anxiety and control issues. Personally I never respond to them because like you I already know what to do. It's like her texting me "BTW the sky is blue". But I think its fine to give the "okay" or "thumbs-up" emoji if you want, no real major harm done there. Also I would not have picked up the phone while at the Dr.'s office or really any other time. I'm busy. She can leave a message or text me and i'll get back to her, if necessary, when and how I choose, depending on the issue.

Our W's do have similar personalities in terms of acting tough, abrasive, controlling, etc. etc.- the type A so-called "alpha" female on steroids. Let me say a few things about this without going on a deep dive - first I know many and have dated numerous successful women who have it all going on, yet they are always in their feminine energy and they are very nice human beings - not abrasive controlling beeatches. So the strong woman who can handle her business does not have to be nasty to get it done. There is something separate going on with them that is a big problem.

The more "alpha" or masculine energy a woman has, the more R problems she is likely to encounter, and let me tell you I work and have worked with many many successful women over the past 25 years and have had a front row seat to it all. Women like your XW have a tough time because no alpha male is going to tolerate her needing to be at the helm. There is a meme out there that these types of women just need an ultra-alpha male to "tame" them, and they will then "submit". But in real life all the alphas I know and let me say I work in an industry with many of them, none of them have been successful and happy with a tough as nails alpha female. Most don't; even go that route - they go with the much more feminine women. Anecdotal but what else can I say.

So an over-the-top alpha female can link up with a more subservient guy who will let her run the show, maybe that will work? I have seen some of that but boy they don't seem happy. I think the woman ends up having some trouble with respecting a man who lets her call the shots. What a dilemma for them.

Look I had a W who understood and respected my alpha mindset despite her own aggressive, need-to-be-dominant nature, and she stayed in her lane. No way would I have married her otherwise. But after the wedding and the kids come out, she ratchets it up on me and day-to-day life is nothing but a power struggle. It's no way to live. So look at our respective sitches DB9 - same type of woman generally, two H's at opposite ends of the submission/dominance spectrum, same result.

Enough pontificating LOL. What type of woman do you want to spend the rest of your short life on this globe with?

[DaB35]

No intention of hijacking your thread DS, but Gekko - my W is an alpha too! Always calling the shots, likes to be in charge, not happy sitting around, always restless, dominating. I was subservient and passive.

It's interesting how it's only when they've left a hole for us to fill that we realise this. When we're in the midst of it all, it really is not obvious, and nobody tells you either.

[DS9]

Raised by an abusive father, and then her first H was abusive as well? Did she/is she seeing a counselor to work through the huge impact these relationships have had on her?

Hey Gekko,

Thanks for coming on board mate - appreciate it.

She wasn't really raised by her dad. He was around, but not around, always doing his own thing. He beat her up once when she was sleeping because she laughed at him earlier in the day. Both her parents did their own thing. She was pretty much left to her own devices, but her mum was primary carer. Her mum's definitley an alpha, as was her dad. I never met her dad. She hated him, and didn't go to his funeral. After she told me what he was like to her, I told her I wish he was still alive so I could confront him. I was very protective of my XW. Her dad is buried overseas.

At the right time, I'm going to ask XW to go to his grave and let her feelings out and pray for closure of that chapter, if not for her, then for everyone else and our S, SS and SD who feels the invisible impact of her being let down by the one who was meant to protect and raise her.

Her first H punched her when she was pregnant. She's been in many short term relationships. I think one ended with her getting a restraining order. I remember a few years ago we had an argument and she told me she felt like punching me in the face. She spoke with pride about punching a boy at school who picked on her friend, and kneeing a woman at a party who slapped her. I never raised a finger. A few times I had to step in when her and SS became physical to protect her.

No counselling that I'm aware of to deal with the impact of these events. She wouldn't get counselling, as she says she doesn't need it. She wanted to be a counsellor herself and is around counsellor's, psychs etc all the time due to her work. Her way of dealing is shutting out these people from her life. The pain is still there as I saw it a few times in her face, then she quickly went back to normal. She studied psychology for years. We would often talk about her fellow students studying it to try to understand and fix themselves. I think I now know why she studied psych.

So now she may be having a MLC, and she's following an astrology report like a script in making her life decisions? Okay then....

Yeah, it's a headspin. Nobody tells her what to do, unless it's an astrology report or a psychic, or an online tarot reading.

Before BD, were you truly happy in the M with your XW calling the shots and you carrying out "her vision", as you say? What was the dynamic between your parents in your household growing up?

Frankly, I was fine with her calling the shots. I'm easy going, and she was very astute with her decisions, most of the time. 95% of the time, I agreed, except where she wanted to do something that was just outside our capacity, unrealistic, or would cost too much. My job is high stress, and I'm making big decisions for other people, so I like to have a break. So, on balance, I was happy with that dynamic.

My parents were complicated. My mum was so lethargic she barely got off the couch, she never cleaned and cooked infrequently. I was left to my own devices, and looked after my younger brother too. Dad was loving, but often at work. He made the decisions, but he wasnt a very good decision maker. We moved house every year, he made good money but we were often short as he spent frivolously. I remember him always being fed up with my mum's laziness and they quarrelled often. He was a good man though who endured. Neither of them understood each other I think.

Thanks heaps for your insight on the alpha/beta dynamic. It's not pontificating at all. Your experiences are very valuable to my understanding of things. I'm pretty naive about all that, and had never heard of this til I came on the forum. That said, XW would often talk about these types of people she encountered at work (but we didn't label them alphas), calling them 'tossers' and how she would get one up on them becuase she disliked them intensely and clashed with them all the time. I saw what I now know as alphas as being people who needed power and control over others to make themselves feel good about themselves, which both XW and I rebelled against if it was a third party we were dealing with. I'm very good at handling these types in my work, and would give XW hints and tips on how to deal with them too.

XW having no filter before speaking didn't help either. A few years ago she had huge trouble with a supervisor who had it in for her. XW was very anxious, and we got her out of that office. Frankly, I think we lasted as long as we did because of the fact I was so easy going, supportive and tolerant of my XW.

What type of woman do you want to spend the rest of your short life on this globe with?

I want a strong, independent woman. But, that woman also needs to be able to listen to me and not place me as a 3rd or 4th priority, and just be reasonable. She also needs to be attractive haha!

Thanks again Gekko.

*********************************************************

Roo, thanks again for your support. I'm a little torn in answering your question. Yes, I do want her to see the changes. But, I've also realised that my emotional and physical changes were a long time coming for me, but I didnt have the intense pain or loss to make those changes, nor did I know how to. I suppose part of my motivation was "F you XW, you say you wanted me to change, but I didn't, so now you've changed, and I'm not part of that - well, challenge accepted!"

After BD, she kept wagging her finger in my face shrieking "People change when they divorce" and "Words mean nada, actions DS, actions!". Well, I flipped the script on her. Some guys seek 'vengeance' on their X by stalking, harassing, making life hell, financially withholding, bad mouthing etc. Heck, all her divorced friends played their tales of woe in that regard on repeat. My riposte (not vengeance) was to become the best interpretation of DS I could be, and AMOAFWL. She projected me as being her XH, father and all previous boyfriends rolled into one. I told her I wasn't them, nor would I ever be - I didn't just say that with words, I demonstrated it with actions.

As to her coming back - I assess a 0.01% prospect.

If she did, we would have a lot of talking to do about our mutual needs and how we reconcile those, and where we can't, what resources will we harness to learn to live with and accept those differences. I crossed a major hurdle there with my SS, who for many years was a huge source of conflict between me and XW, to the point where we nearly separated several times. SS and I now get on great. He is a fine young man now, and he changed in the space of a few short months, and all after BD.

[DaB35]

XW having no filter before speaking didn't help either. Frankly, I think we lasted as long as we did because of the fact I was so easy going, supportive and tolerant of my XW.

DS, this is my W too - 'speak before thinking'! - and I was too tolerant of some of her behaviour as well. How interesting that so many of us have Ss with very similar personality traits.

[Gekko]

I know you are exploring your upbringing and childhood in IC, keep it up it will be helpful in understanding not only how you got to where you are but also in navigating future choices. Also looking at XW's background is important as there were plenty of red flags that you want to recognize in future developing R's, if you do not end up reconciling with XW.

There are plenty of strong independent women out there who are also feminine and nice people, who had wonderful upbringings and good R's with their fathers. I have dated some in the past and they are great and have a whole different thing going on then the uber-alpha women who can be harsh, rigid and need to be on the wheel all the time. In my experience the good ones, despite being able to handle their business on their own quite well, are still looking for a man who is decisive and can lead with confidence in the R.

[DS9]

Hi all,

S and I have been talking about what type of house I should buy next year. I want him involved in that. When doing so, he mentioned how much cash I got from our settlement. I asked him how he knew, and he told me he saw it in the account when mummy did internet banking, and mummy said it was mine and she didn't have much money left. I was a bit stunned, so told him mummy got money and she got a house too, as I think he thought I got more than his mum (and I didn't want him thinking she got not much at all, or I somehow screwed her over, when she got the lions share).

Anyway, we're planning his sleepover this weekend and looking forward to that.

Saw XW yesterday for a PT meeting. I was dressed to the 9's again haha. She parked next to me, and S came out to talk whilst I was in the car. XW stood outside, and I gave her a brief, disinterested greeting, which was reciprocated. XW made a flourish of moving our seats apart before we sat. S is doing really, really well at school. I was so worried he'd lag due to the separation. XW got quite annoyed when during the meeting my phone pinged twice with sms', telling me quite curtly to switch my phone off like she had. I ignored her. She shot off after the meeting. I'm finding I don't want to see her or be around her.

[quote=DS9]
DS, this is my W too - 'speak before thinking'!

Absolutely! The unfiltered stream of consciousness. She knew she had that, and sometimes couldn't control it. It got embarrassing soemtimes.

I know you are exploring your upbringing and childhood in IC, keep it up it

Thanks Gekko. Yes, I'm staying the course with this, and have really heeded your advice about these ultra alpha women and what to look out for. Thanks again mate!

[DS9]

Hi all

Neeed help asap please

Just seeking some quick feedback and opinions please....

I'm foreshadowing on setting some boundaries soon and am rehearsing how I'll do it.

Context is XW telling me what to do in connection with care for our S while she works.

Trying to find the right 'word' or 'phrase' here:

"XW, when you tell me, instead of asking me, you need me or want me to do X, I feel (INSERT WORD I"M TRYING TO COME UP WITH)...blah blah

I dont want to use words like "used", "taken advantage of", "your PA" "your babysitter"

Any thoughts?

Thanks guys

[LH19]

Disrespected

[Ready2Change]

"XW, when you tell me, instead of asking me, you need me or want me to do X, I feel (INSERT WORD I"M TRYING TO COME UP WITH)...blah blah

I dont want to use words like "used", "taken advantage of", "your PA" "your babysitter"

Any thoughts?

Thanks guys

Disrespected

[DS9]

Thanks buddy

Was actually thinking of this word, but, there were a few times in the M when respect came up, and XW would say 'respect is earned'. Worried therefore about inviting another one of these monologues from her.

Or, maybe it doesnt matter now and I should just say the word disrespected?

Cheers DS