Things are trending up...

[kas99]

I moved into a separate house 4 months ago.

You still see her though which I couldn't do right now. I'm not strong enough. I'd take every bait, argue every point, the whole nine. The last time I saw WAH was July 20th. I did good at first but then I got sucked in. There is this neediness, this can't let go, the part where I can't accept what's happened that gets in the way.

I've read that avoidance won't heal a relationship which I get but for me I don't know I need some distance until I beat my addiction (him).

[unchien]

My father used to say you can't do anything with the truth as THEY see it. I believe there is a way to validate without agreeing. When WAH and I fought (years ago when this started) I just agreed because it was easier than defending. In hindsight there was nothing I could have done to change his narrative about me. I could have produced a video, concrete evidence and then maybe I might have a had a chance at convincing him but barring that I had nothing and I got nowhere.

Even if one validates without agreeing, there is zero control over how the other person perceives the interaction. You can't control how someone receives communication. But yes I should probably revisit validation and just stick with it. She is baiting me hard lately.

You still see her though which I couldn't do right now. I'm not strong enough. I'd take every bait, argue every point, the whole nine. The last time I saw WAH was July 20th. I did good at first but then I got sucked in. There is this neediness, this can't let go, the part where I can't accept what's happened that gets in the way.

I've read that avoidance won't heal a relationship which I get but for me I don't know I need some distance until I beat my addiction (him).

I don't take every bait or argue every bit. But sometimes I do.

What helps me is I don't really feel attracted to her (physically or otherwise) anymore. She is not a person I would want to spend time with right now. I don't want her back, not this version. I know I can find a better partner in the future for me, but that partner would not be the mother of our beautiful children, the person I shared so many years of good memories with. So I obviously leave the door open for future possibilities if that is to happen. It seems so unrealistic and impossible.

[IronWill]

I was in a minor text skirmish with her tonight. I no longer avoid them completely. At one point I said, "Why do you always assume the worst in me?" and she responded "Because you blah blah blah..."

Well you kind of set yourself up for that one! Why even reply, it's texting! You can wait a couple of hours to reply. Or not reply at all. Don't let her draw you into nonsense, and if you do then validate and let it go. I know it's not easy, all of us are naturally inclined to defend ourselves. My GF is a classic example, pushes my buttons to get a reaction. If I defend myself it almost always ends up being a fight where we both think we're "defending ourselves". If I validate then inevitably she'll apologize and say she was just having a bad day. There's a MC who talks about it being like ju jitsu where you use your opponent's moves to defeat them. Instead of trying to block their attack, you allow them to attack and divert it and as a result you gain the upper hand. That is EXACTLY what validating is. Some people think validating is giving up or giving in, no it is not that at all. It is a different way of fighting back. It is ALLOWING an attack and dodging out of the way. You don't block it, but you don't let it hit you either. Validation is NOT an admission of guilt, or even saying "you're right". It is simply acknowledging that person has feelings and their feelings NO MATTER HOW CRAZY OR NONSENSICAL are legitimate. Right?

AS really hit the nail on the head here.

Wow.

Everyone should read this.

[IHCLACS]

Printing.....Validation 101: <Does not compute>... Lol JK...

[unchien]

Lol I do struggle to validate now that we are going to start negotiating things that will affect the rest of my life. I can’t confuse validation with accepting a raw deal.

My W uses a lot of emotional reasoning (as we all do). Validating those emotions while disagreeing with the reasoning and still standing up for myself is tricky to navigate.

Today she texted she wants to review our schedule. She said she is bummed having 2 straight weekends without the kids. I could have validated but instead just sent her the schedule. (I also found it strange she does not have this written down but ok).

Thanks all for recentering me. I need to validate not for self protection anymore, but mostly to try to manage the situations so they don’t escalate emotionally. I have simple needs. 50-50 long term and a reasonable financial settlement. The rest is just noise. Unless I am forgetting something?

[rooskers]

Validating those emotions while disagreeing with the reasoning and still standing up for myself is tricky to navigate.

I think you will get the hang of it unchien. It would seem that being able to validate someone who uses emotional reasoning instead of logical reasoning would be even more important in your situation. It will probably go a long way in getting everything you need out of the divorce settlement.

[Adam04]

U,

Validation does take time and practice. While you are covering the basic needs or your wants of the 50/50 and a reasonable financial settlement, that can get tricky as well... so validation could help you in the long run to being both good co-parents. Right now it may be the farthest thing you can imagine, but once the dust settles and the emotions are gone, your emotional control and validation could swing things in the far future. My W and I were still amicable so when we were splitting weeks, she was able to come around when I had the kids and I was able to come around when she had them. She was willing to help with picking the kids up from school if there were days I would be late due to work.

I've seen AS, R2C, Gekko discuss and lay out the basics pertaining to the financial split and assets. While your needs can be described as basic, (we don't need much), this is not the time to be laid back about it. Consider what those holidays will look like, who gets who when, and what will work for both of you. Is there a plan a or b, something to fall back on that you both agree to ahead of time? Be prepared to negotiate, and don't totally give in but don't also argue over something petty. Planning ahead now on how this could play out could help you prevent sudden flare ups if you thought she would let you have x y z days and she ends up not letting you. Think about what works for you and what you would want, then imagine if she disagreed. What would or could you do to work towards an agreement?

[unchien]

W and I go back to MC tomorrow, for the first time in a month. I imagine we will be talking about whether to go to mediation, etc.

W was texting me tonight about talking for 15 minutes beforehand about "finances" including her options for the house. She also said she thought we had been in agreement about D, but then the blow-up last Tuesday left her not knowing where I stand.

Ultimately this post is a big question about validation.

I want to say:

- I never wanted D, but given we are spending down our assets in a separation where we are not working on things (read: W has not opened up in MC), I see no choice. So don't make this about us making a "joint decision."

- The only financial option that makes sense is we list the house promptly. Given we are separated, the wise choice for me is to immediately financially separate and pay support payments. That would leave you on the hook, however, because it would not be enough to pay for the house payments, so I am actually *helping* you out here by letting you drag your feet.

- Saying that you understand relocation isn't an option and you are okay with that is not granting me a favor. It is the law unless you choose to go to court to move the kids.

- Saying that you want what's best for the kids (and implying that's the reason you aren't going to court to try to relocate) does not make me feel any warmth towards you.

I'm so expletive frustrated about this whole ordeal. Her story is so out of line with my reality. I'm no saint, but I'm also no villain. I don't want a D. But I feel like I'm out of options.

The true colors of my W (at least the last 2-3 years of her) have shown me a woman I cannot be happy with. Of course there is a chance she comes to terms with her baggage and makes some changes. It seems unlikely, and it definitely won't happen with me pointing out her baggage. I need to let her go, and at this point, the circumstances of my situation dictate that we move on with D.

And if we are moving on with D, then why would I do anything other than 100%. Pure. Validation.

- Don't let her know how I am feeling.

- No emotional reactions no matter how strong she baits me.

- Be pleasant but firm in negotiations.

Tell me if I'm wrong in this thinking. I know you all have already been advising this. Of course I need to stand up for what is fair, but I don't need to get baited into arguments like "I'm their father, I deserve 50/50!" Instead I just say, "I would like to be at 50/50".

[rooskers]

- I never wanted D, but given we are spending down our assets in a separation where we are not working on things (read: W has not opened up in MC), I see no choice. So don't make this about us making a "joint decision."

I never wanted D, but I see no choice.
Using reason and logic is pointless. Don't bother.

- The only financial option that makes sense is we list the house promptly. Given we are separated, the wise choice for me is to immediately financially separate and pay support payments. That would leave you on the hook, however, because it would not be enough to pay for the house payments, so I am actually *helping* you out here by letting you drag your feet.

I would like to list the house promptly.
She won't understand or care about the rest.

- Saying that you understand relocation isn't an option and you are okay with that is not granting me a favor. It is the law unless you choose to go to court to move the kids.

I want 50/50 custody of the children.
Using reason and logic is pointless. Don't bother.

- Saying that you want what's best for the kids (and implying that's the reason you aren't going to court to try to relocate) does not make me feel any warmth towards you.

I want 50/50 custody of the children.
She doesn't care about the rest so don't bother.


Since I went through a divorce and got everything I was fighting for all I can say is let almost everything go through the lawyer. If you W is anything like my XW then reason and logic is pointless, your feelings she doesn't care about, what's best for the kids will only be understood through the lens of what is best for her and the kids. If you truly are getting a divorce it is time to realize you are in this to protect yourself, your rights as a parent, and your future.

[unchien]

Thanks rooskers.

It feels like giving up. I'm on a divorce BUSTING web forum after all. I feel guilty for dropping my faith, that I should hold out longer (I'm not religious, but I did have faith that we would be able to piece this thing back together somehow). I feel like my kids' lives will be so different from what I had hoped for them - not ruined, not worse, just different. I feel like my W was just waiting for me to agree to D so that SHE didn't have to live with her own guilt. She needed it to be a joint decision. I feel like none of this makes any sense. It makes no sense.

Then I feel like I have no choice but to give up. Three years of built-up resentment. Accusations of abuse. Accusations of being unsafe with my kids. Coming home every day hoping for my W to be there for me, but feeling like I just had a roommate. Going to MC1 and working on helping more around the house and with the kids, only to realize now it was all about resentment over the move and addressing those other symptoms were not going to help one iota. Feeling emotionally abandoned. All of it. Why continue this path of misery with someone who doesn't want to work on it? I haven't been happy. I told myself I was happy but I wasn't.

Or am I missing something I should be doing, or should have done, differently? It is absolutely maddening.

When we had our blow-up 6 days ago, she said I never tried to win her back. I told her "Go read those letters I wrote you in April". I wrote 3 letters then, 2 apologies, and 1 love letter. I know better now. I shouldn't have even said this to her. But she cannot read those letters and think "This is a guy who is checked out of the marriage." Again, why do I bother, it was a waste of my energy.

I spin and spin and just come to the same conclusion. I need to move on. She's not going to come around. And I'm not going to wait. I've been going at DB for about 6 months now, and on the self-improvement path for another year before that at least. My marriage didn't get any better. But I sure did.

I guess I just feel guilty letting go. We are all here trying to save our MR's, not give up on them.