Last night W and I had a phone call to discuss some logistics about kids' birthdays and the upcoming holidays. It's our first Xmas apart so we are working out the details, but everything is okay. We talked a bit about scheduling mediation soon as well.
The most interesting part of the conversation was my W started talking about how her family was doing. I was validating, not all that different from the pre-BD days when we lived together but I knew she was considering D. I asked about her grandmother, whose health is failing. She talked for about 10 minutes about it. She shared that her parents are judging her a bit, and that she hasn't shared many details with her family about what is going on with us. I had a brief "Hmmm that's curious" moment and that's all. Maybe what she meant is she hasn't gone telling her family the things she has said to me directly. The accusations. It seemed like she really wanted me to know that. I just continued validating, and said I hoped her family was doing well.
I thought it was exceptionally strange that she shares very little with her family, but that's for her to decide. It was also strange how much she was telling me. She said "My family still cares about you a lot" and I said "Thank you for sharing that." I could swear she thought in her mind that I really needed to hear this, that I would be struggling with worrying that her family hates me. I guess that's probably some projection on her part, because she did ask if I had told my family anything. I do care about her family, and love her dad and brother in particular, but they are going to be my ex-in-law's, and other than seeing them at some random functions like graduations that is that.
I'm thankful that things aren't so tense at the moment. I can see a future where we co-parent amicably. I expect things will worsen when we do start mediation, because I am going to ask for what is fair, and W will think those asks are unfair. Perhaps I will be pleasantly surprised. But I am absolutely going to be prepared.
I have never heard of shuttle mediation - I have to admit it made me chuckle a little bit picturing the scenario:
"She said what?! Well you go back in there and tell her this!"
I have a very dark sense of humor sometimes =)
My best friend got divorced this way. Took all day with the back and forth but she never had to see her ex. I'm 100% NC so if I end up here this is how I'd want to do it.
I have never heard of shuttle mediation - I have to admit it made me chuckle a little bit picturing the scenario:
"She said what?! Well you go back in there and tell her this!"
I have a very dark sense of humor sometimes =)
Hey U,
Shuttle mediation is quite well regarded here in Aus for Family Law stuff. It assists the parties in removing the tension and opportunites to inflame things when one party is prone to aggressive tactics or there's a power imbalance.
When I say mediation though, I mean the negotiation type where the parties are trying to hammer out a deal for property or parenting. Not 100% sure what mediation encompasses in the USA - could be different.
Best of luck mate!
Me: early 40's XW: nearly 50 T: 15 M: 5 BD: Jan 19 S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
She shared that her parents are judging her a bit, and that she hasn't shared many details with her family about what is going on with us. I had a brief "Hmmm that's curious" moment and that's all. Maybe what she meant is she hasn't gone telling her family the things she has said to me directly. The accusations. It seemed like she really wanted me to know that.
This is very similar to my sit, U. My W still wants me involved in events with her family, and her family wants all that too. Last year they said I will always be family. It's true if I want it to be true - I've known all of them for 21 years and I've seen no indication that they feel otherwise.
It's so strange when you pull back, really far back, and WASs start to question themselves, to see that it was not all you that is causing the problems. The timescale on this is soooo long, I think you're beginning to see the scope of it now.
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I thought it was exceptionally strange that she shares very little with her family, but that's for her to decide. It was also strange how much she was telling me. She said "My family still cares about you a lot" and I said "Thank you for sharing that." I could swear she thought in her mind that I really needed to hear this, that I would be struggling with worrying that her family hates me. I guess that's probably some projection on her part, because she did ask if I had told my family anything. I do care about her family, and love her dad and brother in particular, but they are going to be my ex-in-law's, and other than seeing them at some random functions like graduations that is that.
Facing their own truth can be daunting. My W had to do that too and her family is against her decision.
As far as our MR is concerned, I stopped talking to Ws family about it 10 months ago when I decided I still wanted them in my life. I came up with some neutral sounding language that deflects most of the questions they have.
If you like them and you still want them in your life, that is up to you. Yeah, it will be weird at first, but that does pass. My SIL and BIL are some of my best friends. It has been 14 months and even though it is different now, they are still close. I'm not willing to lose them (or my nephews) over this and they want to keep me in their lives just as much.
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I'm thankful that things aren't so tense at the moment. I can see a future where we co-parent amicably. I expect things will worsen when we do start mediation, because I am going to ask for what is fair, and W will think those asks are unfair. Perhaps I will be pleasantly surprised. But I am absolutely going to be prepared.
It is always good to be prepared, U. But we cannot predict the future. Maybe mediation is awful, maybe it goes smoothly. You control how it goes for you. W controls how it goes for her.
So glad to hear things have calmed down for you -
Keep yourself as steady as you can - you can do this, man
I picked up some mediation books from the library last week and am feeling completely overwhelmed the last few days. There are so many details to consider. Many of them probably don't matter. There are only a few things that really matter -- having a solid foundation with my kids, and a fair financial settlement. One thing I notice these books stress is that fighting tooth and nail for everything you think is fair is not wise as one will end up spending a ton of money chasing marginal returns. And to always focus on what's best for your kids, not what's best for you (or your WAS if you tend towards conflict avoidance as I do).
Mediation may not end up working for us, but I'm feeling like it's really important for my own self-growth that we try it this way. I certainly feel like my positions are valid and fair, and I also am willing to negotiate and work together to find something that works for both of us. I have to be really careful not to cave on issues with the kids.
What I should really do is make sure to have legal counsel available before starting mediation (to make sure I don't agree to something I shouldn't).
I've learned from DB (and IC, and podcasts, and reading, and personal growth) that these stress cycles happen for me and the more I react with aversion the more they persist. It's just going to last a few days. Breathe, meditate when possible. Focus on "the next thing." There is so much uncertainty in life, but I am certain that once we come to an agreement on a settlement my life will feel much more centered.
I'm also realizing that I have always let my worries dictate my life. Before my MR difficulties, it was issues with my parents. Or work stress. It's a wake-up call to enjoy the day, enjoy the moment. I'm trying. I'm not great at it, but I'm getting better. Even today I should enjoy my Monday, and not be so worried about mediation. It's going to be there tomorrow. It's time to define the rest of my life - how I want to live it, the changes I want to make. Nobody can completely overhaul themselves. But I certainly have an opportunity to get out of "marriage auto-pilot" mode and start making decisions for myself again.
I'm having a lot of trouble sleeping. Waking up a lot during the night, having dreams about the separation, MR problems, issues with my parents. The kind of dreams that bother you long after you woke up. This has been going on for about 2 weeks now. I'm exercising a lot more to try to exhaust myself, but it's not enough to counter the stress.
I'm also realizing that I have always let my worries dictate my life. Before my MR difficulties, it was issues with my parents. Or work stress. It's a wake-up call to enjoy the day, enjoy the moment. I'm trying. I'm not great at it, but I'm getting better.
That is one of the things I find so difficult. It was so nice to come home and have someone I believed loved me unconditionally to share with. I never wanted the person to fix anything it was just nice to have someone to talk with after a rough day. Learning to do that alone is one of my biggest challenges.
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I'm having a lot of trouble sleeping. Waking up a lot during the night, having dreams about the separation, MR problems, issues with my parents. The kind of dreams that bother you long after you woke up.
It is almost 6 months since BD and 4 months since divorce and all of a sudden the nightmares have returned. I hope they will end for you because I know how exhausting it can be.
1st BD December 26, 2008 PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008
2nd BD May 23, 2019 Daughter confirms EA Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Thanks rooskers. I feel like I went over a year while living together where I wasn't getting much support. When we did talk during that year, it was mostly one-sided and my W rarely asked about me. Since about April I've reached out to friends who have been extremely supportive. It's a complete change of lifestyle now that I moved out, as I come home to an empty house now, but better than the pre-BD days where I felt essentially no support. And I'm much more capable of dealing with my emotions on my own.
The nightmares come and go. Lately I'm sure it's because my mind is on the upcoming mediation process. which leads to a lot of problem-solving obsessive thinking. But the dreams really throw me for a loop. Dreams of verbal fights, of my W with an OM, of being estranged from my kids, of my W taking me to court. Sometimes good dreams, about the good times we had. One big emotional spaghetti mess, and rather than try to sort it out I'm just trying to accept that it is there and push through it best as I can.
I got caught up on your whole thread. Wow - have you been through the ringer. I don't have any children and thank goodness we don't have much in the way of divided assets should it come to D. However, I do think that protecting yourself is the best course of action no matter the outcome. I hope that mediation goes well for you and that you are able to control your responses. Remind yourself not to react, but rather listen and respond with dignity and integrity. If a subject is too stressful, or you find yourself getting worked up, table it for now!
I have had the horrible dreams on and off as well. They blow. One thing that sometimes will help me fall into a restful sleep is to focus on my task list for the following day. As I lay in bed, I envision each thing that I want to accomplish tomorrow. It may or may not be your thing.
Good luck & lots of hugs!
LBW 32 - me WW 31 T 7 M 4 No Kids 4 dogs
Separated 1y Navigating the mine field and GAL with or without
