Things are trending up...

[unchien]

Yes, that is also where my W was when I started DBing. It was all my fault. Nothing I did or didn't do would change anything and I was the worst person in the world, ever.

Not sure if I ever told you this, but I went nearly NC for two or three months during this time. While we were still both in the same house. I did it for my own sanity, and to remove myself from the equation almost completely. It was an excruciating time for me - you can read my posts from April through June/July if you want to see how painful it was - but I think it helped at least a little in resetting the scenario. It also helped me to see that i was definitely not the monster i was made out to be at BD.

She's blaming you right now because there is no one else to throw the blame on, U. You are the closest to the fire, so you're gonna get burned. A lot. That's the nature of this crisis. Plus she needs to justify her decisions to break up the MR. Its not rational or logical - it is 100 percent emotional. Otherwise there is nothing left to hang on to, and somewhere deep down she knows it.

You never told me about going NC. If we didn't have 3 kids, I would say we would be NC at this point. We barely text unless it's logistics about the kids or the upcoming mediation process.

My W has a strange stance right now. She seems to want us to all get along, but continue to act as if I am a scary, violent person not deserving of adequate parenting time with our kids. She has made overtures that I can join them on Halloween.

I should be clear that I have zero desire to reconcile right now, and primarily I am trying to forge an amicable relationship when we co-parent our children as divorced parents. Unfortunately, my desire to be amicable is getting in the way of me standing up for myself. I have allowed things to get to this point.

Going back to the main point, it is incredibly painful to be called "violent" and "abusive" when I don't believe I did anything anywhere near that extreme. From the woman I loved for 15 years. Having to feel like I'm being watched when I have time with the kids. Being judged. This goes way beyond realizing she fell out of love.

Are attending these counseling sessions agreed upon by both of you? And if so, are they helping you at all? It's hard to sense from behind a keyboard but from here it seems like they aren't. Again, I might be misreading your sit, though

I will continue to go as it helps with co-parenting and communication. As far as helping our relationship, they do not help at all.

Soft 2x4 time - Recon is not something that happens that quickly. Not when your W is still in the anger phase.

Recon is not under consideration by me at this point. The rope is dropped. I want to snap my fingers and have this divorce over with. I have seen how I can (and will) be happier on my own.

It took my W from November 2018 to August 2019 before she started losing most of the anger. During that time she also had nightly panic attacks, extreme anxiety, and insomnia. Now she is in depression and withdrawal. There is a long way to go.

I also think my W is going through a difficult phase of her life, and I am to blame for everything in her mind. It's too late at this point. Continuing to DB and be patient is causing me to suffer as a father and a person. My kids are suffering. I can't let this continue under the assumption if I wait long enough that she will come around.

I cannot tell you what to do, as always, but if it were me, I might think about taking a breath and letting W be. That's what I have done. I have left my W alone - that's what she wanted, that's what I could do for her, so I did it. Plus it probably is not the best for you to keep getting these mini-BD's every time you have a session, at least in my opinion. I told my W I had had enough and I wasn't interested in going over my faults yet again when she tried to bring it up at another point a few weeks after BD. She stopped doing it.

I get my kids 4 days every 2 weeks. The longer this goes, the more my kids drift away. I am paying for 2 households off my salary. I am called "violent" and "abusive." She has thrown these terms around cavalierly in counseling sessions where I could be reported to authorities if there was any substance to the allegations. She says she doesn't love me anymore. I will leave her alone from an emotional perspective, but I do need to change the situation. Some may suggest I move back into the marital home. I think I need to move on.

If I could snap my fingers and she would return to the loving, understanding woman I used to know, I would. It's not reality. It is a fantasy. Right now, the only change in her life has been that I left the home. I need to move on for my own sanity, and she needs to face reality as well. This means we need to move towards divorce. I see no other options. I have seen that I am a happier, more relaxed father by myself than when we lived together.

I can't stress enough how much the parenting element and fear of going to court and losing my kids plays into this situation.

Hang in there, man. Hope you keep posting here - I see lots of longtime vets still posting in newcomers, but if you decide to switch, let us know so we can follow you.

I will probably continue to post here as well, but keep it more on the feelings/emotions side of things. I anticipate having a lot of divorce/logistical questions, and I think it's best I go to the other board for those. For one, I may get more tailored advice. And secondly, I don't want newcomers feeling jaded reading my story.

[unchien]

Journal ~

I’m facing down the next phase of this process - mediation. I feel a need to push things along, as on all accounts (parenting time, finances) I expect to be better off. I know I’ll be okay. Things may get nasty. This upcoming process may be really brutal emotionally, and will take its toll, but in the end, things can only be better.

My W scares me. I just want a settlement in writing. At the moment I feel like I still give ground on little things, solely for the purpose of maintaining peace. Part of this is NGS rearing its head, part of it is fear of her reactions. Just last Monday she called me a “violent person” in counseling, to which the counselor corrected her and said maybe something UC did was violent. This mentality scares me. Her inability to rein in her emotions, even when we are in front of a counselor, does not make me feel confident in the mediation process.

But something deeper is eating away at me. I’m looking at my future. I know I’ll figure out the logistical stuff (clothes, food, school schedules) even if it does not come so easy for me now. I have improved during the separation.

Deeper down I am emotionally a mess. I’m not wallowing in it like maybe I would have a year ago. But it’s there. I know I need to step away from any whiff of a romantic relationship for a long time. I need to reset my life, figure out what this all means, how I want to approach friendships, my estranged family relationships. What are my values? I will be handed controls to run my own life again. It’s exciting and scary at the same time.

What eats at me is that I still look back. I should be looking forward, 100%. But I turn my head and look over my shoulder. It’s not the hope of reconciliation (at least I think so). It’s looking back at how good life could have been if things had worked out. And not understanding what the he** just happened.

And at the same time, recognizing there is absolutely NO WAY I can go back. She accused me of abusing my children, of abusing her. In front of mandatory reporters. Several times. She continues with that thread. And then turns and acts upset if we aren’t friendly to each other. The resentment has set in for me now. I see her being controlling, and manipulative, and putting her needs first, and not dealing with her own emotional baggage.

I know part of healing is going to involve standing up for myself and facing the hurricane-force winds when my W realizes how her life is about to get turned upside down. She is not going to have the life she expects to have. The only impact she has felt in this separation is missing every other weekend with the kids. I know the storm is coming. I know long-term even if I secure 50/50 custody there will be constant tug-of-wars, and she will constantly try to assert herself as the superior parent. I just have to feel secure that my kids love me and I’m doing the best I can.

I just feel really emotionally screwed up from all of this. My parents cut me off 3 years ago. I’m pretty sure I suffered CEN (Childhood Emotional Neglect) as a kid. I attached myself to a W who felt like the love of my life. I should have done something differently. Not to save the MR, but to avoid the protracted limbo standoff that turned into overblown worries that I was an unsafe person. Something is not right with my life decisions. Yes, I go to IC and work on all this stuff. I just wonder sometimes if I’m going to feel whole. I know now that is up to me and not another person.

[rooskers]

Deeper down I am emotionally a mess. I’m not wallowing in it like maybe I would have a year ago. But it’s there. I know I need to step away from any whiff of a romantic relationship for a long time. I need to reset my life, figure out what this all means, how I want to approach friendships, my estranged family relationships.

Heck I don't even know if I trust myself anymore. I find myself questioning the motives of friends I have had for over 35 years. There is only one person in the world I love right now and that is my daughter. Know that you are not alone in this unchien. One step at a time, one step at a time.

What eats at me is that I still look back. I should be looking forward, 100%. But I turn my head and look over my shoulder. It’s not the hope of reconciliation (at least I think so). It’s looking back at how good life could have been if things had worked out. And not understanding what the he** just happened.

I can completely relate to this unchien and I think I have found a quote that explains it for me.

I'm not crying
Because of you;
You're not worth it.
I'm crying because
My delusion of who
Your were was
Shattered by the
Truth of who
You are.

And at the same time, recognizing there is absolutely NO WAY I can go back.

The first time my XW had an affair she accused me of raping her (I never ever did any such thing and she couldn't tell me when this supposed event happened). After we had gotten back together she brushed it aside and said she was just mad at me but I was never able to get that out of my mind. I never initiated sex with her again and always feared she would accuse me again. I take the blame in the relationship for never letting her know how much that hurt me and our intimacy. This time around it is the accusation of me being dangerous like yours. I feel false accusations like this means trust can never be reestablished and therefore a relationship would never be possible.

I know part of healing is going to involve standing up for myself and facing the hurricane-force winds when my W realizes how her life is about to get turned upside down.

All I can say is I am there and it rocks you to your core. I feel that as much as I loved my XW is as much as she wants me to hurt and I have no idea why.

I just wonder sometimes if I’m going to feel whole.

Know that you are not alone. Even though we have never met I care and believe in you. We will make it.

[DaB35]

U,

I'd like to echo what Rooksers has said above. It is normal to feel this and want to figure out things.

'Reset your life' is quite apt. Yes it is to an extent a forced reset but you have to believe that things will be good and better. Looking back is normal as well; I do it sometimes too. How you could have acted differently, and how things may have panned out. Hindsight is great but it's best not dwelt upon; just look ahead and be excited.

[unchien]

Thanks rooskers and DaB35 -

Clearly I need to continue in IC to explore my fear. I am afraid of my W, and feel like I need to sort out these issues. I feel controlled and manipulated. It's going to take me awhile. I also need to figure out how to manage this relationship with her for the rest of my life, because we have kids together.

The false (or overblown) accusations have really worn me down at this point. Traumatized is a strong word, but I do feel burned very badly and worry that I will develop serious trust issues. The people who were supposed to be there for me in my life (my parents, my W) have more or less abandoned me. I know that it is more about them than me, but it's not that easy to brush it off.

And rooskers to your point... I'm not sure I trust myself anymore. In little situations... do I stand up for myself, let it go? What am I communicating to another person by how I respond? It's all overwhelming and exhausting sometimes.

[unchien]

Journal ~

Something that's been bothering me is why I sometimes feel strong emotions when my W does or says things. Little jabs that I feel a need to defend.

At first I thought, well, this is a 15 year relationship. But I think I've accepted the fact our MR is over. I'm not hoping for reconciliation.

Then I thought, this is my desire to seek approval, NMMNG style. Even though this person has more or less abandoned me emotionally for the past 2 years, labeled me with some awful terms, and taken zero responsibility for her contributions to the failure of our MR, I still feel like she has this power.

But I think it's actually a desire to avoid disapproval. I am learning to build confidence in my choices, but it is something that doesn't come naturally to me, not from the way I was raised by my parents, and not from how things went in my MR (and I take responsibility for my part in that).

So my Aha insight, I hope, is, well, why should I care what my W thinks about my choices? Why does her opinion carry more weight than my own?

My fear of a custody battle does influence this as well. But I do still feel the need to defend sometimes, when really I just need to shrug it off, do what I think is best according to my values, and let her deal with her own choices and emotions.

This feels like part of my healing process... learning to make my own choices confidently, regardless of what other people think. If I don't work on that, I'll end up in a relationship down the road and slide right into the passive NMMNG role again.

[IronWill]

Journal ~

Something that's been bothering me is why I sometimes feel strong emotions when my W does or says things. Little jabs that I feel a need to defend.

At first I thought, well, this is a 15 year relationship. But I think I've accepted the fact our MR is over. I'm not hoping for reconciliation.

I think you answered your own question here.

As far as whether we've all dropped the rope fully - well then we wouldn't be on a forum called "Divorce Busting", would we?

Have you read Manly Marriage Revival? I think it's a great secondary/companion read to DB - and more importantly it distinguishes some subtle differences between "alphas" and "leaders". Just a suggestion

Even though this person has more or less abandoned me emotionally for the past 2 years, labeled me with some awful terms, and taken zero responsibility for her contributions to the failure of our MR, I still feel like she has this power.

Re-read what you wrote here, U - and I think you'll start to get at the crux of what is bothering you.

Why do you feel your W emotionally abandoned you?
What did she do?
How did you react to what she did?
What life-changing or significant events happened during those 2-plus years on her end that caused her to view you differently from what she saw you as before?
How did you respond to those significant events?

Put yourself in her shoes, try to see yourself as she saw you during that time. I'm not talking about the hyper-sensitive reactions/interactions during that one incident near BD, or the letters or that kind of thing, but previously to that. List it out if it helps - doesn't even have to be here if you're worried about anonymity. Write it all down on paper if you like - every single little thing it could have been. I did it - it may help you too.

So my Aha insight, I hope, is, well, why should I care what my W thinks about my choices? Why does her opinion carry more weight than my own?

Because deep down (somewhere on some level) you still do want this to work out. Just like I (deep down) want mine to work out.
But we can't say that or think that because we both have to be prepared for any possible outcome. Spending too much time thinking about R would be for naught if it did not end up working out. So we keep ourselves occupied and protected - as we should.

My fear of a custody battle does influence this as well. But I do still feel the need to defend sometimes, when really I just need to shrug it off, do what I think is best according to my values, and let her deal with her own choices and emotions.

I probably shouldn't say anything here because I don't have kids. But i do have a ton of experience with fighting divorcing parents. So I'll keep it brief. Prioritize the needs and emotional well being of your kids when it comes to custody. That's all that matters.

You are a smart guy, U. You know as well as I do that the future isn't written in stone. None of my future predictions over the past 14 months has come 100 percent true. I would suspect yours have not either.

This is so tough but you're getting a lot stronger and you're thinking critically. Good to see you working on yourself and using the gift of time.

Take care man - stay strong

[unchien]

As far as whether we've all dropped the rope fully - well then we wouldn't be on a forum called "Divorce Busting", would we?

I came here hoping to bust my D.

I've stayed because I am becoming a happier and healthier person.

I'm not going to insist I've dropped the rope -- it certainly feels like I have, but every once in awhile the rope is tested and it isn't completely slack. I do feel like I'm thinking more clearly about making life decisions in my best interest (and that of my kids).

Have you read Manly Marriage Revival? I think it's a great secondary/companion read to DB - and more importantly it distinguishes some subtle differences between "alphas" and "leaders". Just a suggestion

Thanks for the recommendation... I like the idea of distinguishing "alphas" and "leaders"

Even though this person has more or less abandoned me emotionally for the past 2 years, labeled me with some awful terms, and taken zero responsibility for her contributions to the failure of our MR, I still feel like she has this power.

Re-read what you wrote here, U - and I think you'll start to get at the crux of what is bothering you.

Why do you feel your W emotionally abandoned you?
What did she do?
How did you react to what she did?
What life-changing or significant events happened during those 2-plus years on her end that caused her to view you differently from what she saw you as before?
How did you respond to those significant events?

Put yourself in her shoes, try to see yourself as she saw you during that time. I'm not talking about the hyper-sensitive reactions/interactions during that one incident near BD, or the letters or that kind of thing, but previously to that. List it out if it helps - doesn't even have to be here if you're worried about anonymity. Write it all down on paper if you like - every single little thing it could have been. I did it - it may help you too.

This gets so complicated.

It's easy to think myself into a pretzel, or to start assigning fault. The fact is, I contributed to the failure, and so did she. I've talked about the disruptive move we made 2+ years ago, and how we both struggled to handle it. It ripped our MR apart. Had we not moved, maybe we would still be together, but all those subtle sub-surface issues would still be there. I don't look back anymore and think how great things were. I think about the little red flags. Maybe it's my way of moving on. Maybe it's the only way I *can* move on.

I don't think my W has asked how I'm doing and asked a follow-up question since we moved. That's what I mean by emotional abandonment. No interest in my inner world. Little to no interest in spending time together. Of course I contributed, but also... we moved, and she was depressed (she admitted that to me), and her way of handling this was to shut down and slowly build up resentment. We can't undo the past.

I know that I invested way too much time and energy trying to "fix" things. Trying to please her, tiptoeing around, never feeling good enough. What should I have done? I could have been a stronger person.

She likely feels like she did the best she could too. I'm sure she feels moving was an enormous show of support for our MR. But that's not how relationships work. They take constant attention and care, and appreciating the other person.

So many little things along the way. I would buy her flowers and she would complain I didn't tell her I was stopping at the store. I would watch the kids whenever she wanted to go away for the weekend. I would do the laundry and she would complain that I didn't put everything back how she wanted. Nobody is perfect. She resented me. I can see it now. How could I have fixed it? Maybe with extreme self-improvement. Or maybe she just really didn't want to move.

IDK... trying to ascribe reasons for our failing MR's feels pointless after awhile. Of course I could be a better person, and work on self-improvement, and try to win her back. But at the end of the day, perhaps things were never meant to work out. What attracted us to each other in our 20's and 30's did not sustain. We have 3 kids. Goals change. It's okay that things didn't work out. I've spent years confusing "love" with "trying to please my W" and the fact is the love part disappeared awhile ago. It's okay. The woman I loved is gone. She's still a good person, and a good mother, but I think I can forge a happier life as a single dad. I'm looking forward to it. Her goals in life are not mine, and I've set aside my own goals for far too long.

or maybe these are all messages my brain is creating in order to cope with it all.

See what I mean about the pretzel?

So my Aha insight, I hope, is, well, why should I care what my W thinks about my choices? Why does her opinion carry more weight than my own?

Because deep down (somewhere on some level) you still do want this to work out. Just like I (deep down) want mine to work out.
But we can't say that or think that because we both have to be prepared for any possible outcome. Spending too much time thinking about R would be for naught if it did not end up working out. So we keep ourselves occupied and protected - as we should.

Actually I think one of my big NGS flaws was to think the opinion of my W mattered more than my own. And women in general sometimes. And I am still recovering.

Thank you for the feedback. You are constantly challenging me and getting me out of my patterns and grooves -- which is what this is all about =)

[unchien]

Journal ~

A few random notes about interactions with W over the last week...

For Halloween I went over to trick or treat with the kids and W at the house (remote area, with about 100 houses in a community). I had a great time with the kids, and there was zero awkwardness with W (meaning, we were in full parenting mode, no R talk). I'm glad I went to enjoy the night with the kids.

W dropped them off the next night at my house for the weekend. She was telling me about S7 having some behavioral problems during the week, but almost lecturing him within earshot so we are all "on the same page." I wanted to say "I think it would be best that you and I discuss this privately first." I didn't. W was riled up as she was talking and I wanted to end it quickly. Strangely, she gave me a tight hug when she left (I sort of half-hugged back). It's something she's been doing a few times recently.

I had been trying to organize some dinner time with the kids in the next week (this is one of my long 10 day gaps), which W had agreed to long before. I think I asked 4-5 times over text in the past 2 weeks to confirm a date. Yesterday morning, before W came to pick up the kids, I said, "Can you please confirm which of these options works for you? I feel it is unfair to me and the kids to leave the schedule up in the air until the last minute." W responded with a date, I said "Great." When she came to pick up the kids, she said, "Oh by the way that wasn't intentional or personal I've just been very busy." This coming from her is a major improvement.

I also texted her to say I would like to reach out to mediators. She said "OK" and did not seem emotionally reactive. It's time to get the ball rolling. The status quo does not work for me.

Anyhow, this post violates DB rules because it focuses heavily on W... I notice a general thawing in her attitude. I'll leave it at that and not speculate as to the cause, because of course it could be anything. It's noticeable enough that I know it is intentional on her part. I imagine things are going to get worse during mediation. That's okay. I'm trying to get my mindset straight --I know my needs, and although I'm willing to negotiate I will not give way just to be nice and pleasant.

We also have a couple birthdays for the kids plus Xmas coming up, and planning to talk about how to handle gift-giving, etc. given that we are not financially separated right now.

For me: I bought some home gym equipment in September and finally kicked my workout into gear at home. I'm feeling great physically and looking great. Work is picking up and I feel more productive. I've been cooking a lot when I have the kids. Last week I went to a live concert for the first time in a long time. I love when I have the kids -- they do complain about having two houses, and ask frequently when I am moving back. Mostly I think I'm doing the best I can, trying harder than ever to focus on the present and let go of both the past and the future to a degree. Control what I can control. I could probably do a better job seeking social opportunities in my free time.

[DS9]

Journal ~

I imagine things are going to get worse during mediation. That's okay. I'm trying to get my mindset straight --I know my needs, and although I'm willing to negotiate I will not give way just to be nice and pleasant.

Hey U (the rock steady crew - sorry mate)

Sorry to hear things are a little up and down for your mate.

Just wondering if a shuttle mediation might be worth a look into? Basically you and XW in different rooms, with the mediator shuttling between you both.