Just checking back in, with some journaling. Might be a long one.
I'm going to be brutally honest with myself, and with you. This has been an awful week. Normally I'm fairly good at regulating my emotions and keeping it moving, but this week has been extremely difficult for me, triggered by two things:
First, WAW's continued lack of interest in MC. Yet again this week our counselor presented some alternative times for us to attend - for background, WAW's new job makes it difficult for her to attend during the day - and again, that new time didn't work for her. Now, I have no idea if she really had a conflict that she couldn't get around, but at this point it's impossible to believe that MC is a priority for her, at all. For context, I'm a C-level exec with a 70-person org, and I'm willing to move mountains to maintain MC as a lifeline; it's very clearly more important to me than it is to her. And that hurts.
Second, general unhappiness at work. Not necessary to go into details, but while I have an amazing role that many would be thrilled with, I'm just not - mostly because we've grown so much and the company culturally is so different than what I enjoy. I'm an entrepreneur, I like companies in their earlier stage...and this is just abjectly the opposite of that.
It's impossible to determine where my emotions regarding work and home separate; for example, I fought so hard for my job (and was happy to slog through it, despite some reservations and signs it was turning into something I didn't want) because I wanted to provide the best life for my family, and support WAW in her art. Now that we're S and she's got a full-time job, I find it harder and harder to justify doing something I don't enjoy - even though from a mercenary perspective, I'd be an idiot for leaving.
Communication with WAW has been basically zero, saved for a few logistical-based emails and texts here and there. At this point, this limbo is getting to be more painful than the actual separation was - there's just no shape to it, no signs of life at all, and I have no clue what to do next. I'm GALing and trying my best to maintain distance but I'm lonelier than ever and this all just feels extremely untenable.
I ask myself: what am I holding out for? At what point am I a blind fool, ignoring the obvious signs that WAW has no interest in reconciliation, and is just gradually winding things down? We've been S almost four months; it's past the time of "needing space", it's into "building a new life and seeing if that new life is better" territory, right?
I feel like I know the answer to those questions - they're obvious in her actions. And I feel like such a weak, passive fool for trying to fight, trying to find any positive ray of light that I see.
In my IC today, my therapist had mentioned that he maintains a lot of confusion about why the S happened - in his words, it just feels like one day my WAW woke up and decided she didn't want to be married anymore. It's true that there's a lot of things I'd have done differently, and certainly I've used the time we've been separated to read and learn and prepare a better version of myself for whatever future comes my way. But apart from a few general things, there's nothing I can really say to WAW; it's not as if I can say "Hey, I'm still me, I'm not drinking any more though" or anything like that. Something changed in her, and that's not something I can address or solve. It puts me in such a powerless position. Something has to suddenly become clear in her mind that she wants to try again with me, but nothing in her actions points to that being anywhere close to reality. And I have to be honest about that, no matter how much it hurts.
One thing my IC is really keen on - and probably to some disagreement on here - is that if there is to be any reconciliation, WAW is going to have to fall in love with me again, not for the best-version-of-myself person I've become during the S but the person I am, day-in and day-out. The person I am has agency and takes the bull by the horns; I've started companies, I've attacked goals, I've been relentless in going after the things that I want - my entire life has been a story of persistence and action. When I met WAW, I surprised her (in a good way, obviously) with how direct I was about my interest in her and the control I had on my life, which was so different than what she was seeing from other guys at the time. The person she fell in love with is active, not passive.
And so in that vein, the IC's advice is to go about things the same way I have throughout my life - make it clear to WAW that she's still important to me, that I'm willing to work on things, that I remain loyal and faithful to the vows I made. Not to just sit there, waiting for my life to just happen but taking action and ownership of the situation. He's not convinced that WAW knows just how much I'm hurting; he has some concerns that from her perspective, I might too be settling into a new normal that doesn't involve her. What he says makes logical sense, but it's incredibly scary. One, it's almost the direct opposite of advice on here, and two, it applies pressure to a situation in which I have almost no positive signs at all or leverage to work with.
And so I'm just confused, hurt, and more pessimistic than I've ever been. And pile onto that my unhappiness at work and I'm just having a rough, rough week. But I'm also at a complete loss for what to do next and becoming emotionally unable to continue in this limbo.
My birthday is next week - I'm fully prepared for her to do absolutely nothing. Even though I know, as I write that, that it would hurt me if that was the case because I'm looking a sign, any sign that she's still there, that I'm on her radar at all. I wish I could sit here and write this post from a place of strength and say I'm detached and it's my life and all of that, but I can't. It's four months in and I feel just as bad as I did in the very first day after BD.
Steve, you are stuck in a revolving door. I'm going to repost my last post to you, because nothing has changed:
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Steve, drop the MC. Your W's head isn't in it. You've got to forget these pretenses of thinking that you are piecing because you are not, and you need to fully embrace DB'ing. Get out and GAL. Give her time and space. If she decides she's ready to work on things you will be the first person to know. Until then LEAVE HER ALONE. If she asks why you've changed then tell her you realized her heart wasn't in it and you've decided YOU need some times and space from HER to weigh your options.
Steve, you are stuck in a revolving door. I'm going to repost my last post to you, because nothing has changed:
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Steve, drop the MC. Your W's head isn't in it. You've got to forget these pretenses of thinking that you are piecing because you are not, and you need to fully embrace DB'ing. Get out and GAL. Give her time and space. If she decides she's ready to work on things you will be the first person to know. Until then LEAVE HER ALONE. If she asks why you've changed then tell her you realized her heart wasn't in it and you've decided YOU need some times and space from HER to weigh your options.
I hear you, but here's my push back. First, I don't believe it's bringing me any closer to my goal. We talk next to never, and we're more apart than we've ever been, both emotionally and physically. If I'm sitting back looking at this in five, ten years, am I going to have regrets about being passive and just letting things die on their own? I wouldn't be able to say that I did what I could, that I shot my shot, if I continue acting the way I'm acting.
She asked for space - I think I've gone above and beyond in giving it to her, more than almost anyone would. What's been advocated here is more and more and more and more, with zero evidence that continuing down that path will suddenly change things. I hear you when you say that this advice is given on the back of numerous examples, but it's really hard to go with that on faith when I feel as if I'm in a worse place than when I started.
Secondly, it's also not who I am. It's incredibly hard for me just to sit here and feel like it's slipping away, and tell myself to not do anything about it. I feel like the rules and advice are in place to avoid someone doing real damage: making demands, crying, pleading, begging, and demanding timelines. That hasn't been and will never be me - I just have to think there's some middle ground here, and I'm trying to find it.
What you are experiencing is what as known as the “illusion of action” where you feel you need to do something. When in essence do nothing and giving her space is doing something. It’s actually even better because it’s what she wants so that means you are listening and understanding her. Everything you listed above is just your mind convincing you that it’s ok to pursue which is unfortunately the worst thing you can do right now.
Time and space are valuable for two reasons. One it helps you detach and two it gives her the opportunity to miss you. Hey I haven’t hear from Steve I wonder what he’s up to right now?
Right now you’re making decisions based on fear and what you fear you attract.
I thought about what you said in regards to your convo with your IC. I see some logic in that. This method worked in the first place. It attracted her before. I'm also wary though, as even you said that it applies pressure to a situation with almost no positive signs.
I too am confused on why the separation happened in the first place. Can you explain that further?
Originally Posted by SteveS
We've been S almost four months; it's past the time of "needing space", it's into "building a new life and seeing if that new life is better" territory, right?
I think most of these sitches take longer than that to play out.
Originally Posted by SteveS
I ask myself: what am I holding out for?
You are holding out because you love her, married her, and believe in your vows. This is a hard time, which you signed up for.
Originally Posted by SteveS
One thing my IC is really keen on - and probably to some disagreement on here - is that if there is to be any reconciliation, WAW is going to have to fall in love with me again
This is hard for me to say. Last May I read a text from my WW to her friend that said basically "I love Over, but I am in love with OM". Yet my W kept contacting me, kept coming back to me. So my experience goes against what your IC says in a way. But on the other hand, I do think we need to be building up our "in love" feelings to get through this.
Originally Posted by SteveS
But apart from a few general things, there's nothing I can really say to WAW
What are the general things?
On the flip side, I believe her actions are speaking in regards to MC. Your words were "I'm willing to move mountains to maintain MC as a lifeline", and I believe you would take quick action to support that. Her actions show you that her head is not in the same place.
For now, with her not attending, it seems as if MC has been dropped, which is what AS is suggesting you do. I think you do nothing with regards to MC for the short term. Maybe you should consider your pursuit plan though. Have you pursued at all since the separation began? I think you did a little, but it has been a while.
When's the last time you've read DR?
Originally Posted by SteveS
If I'm sitting back looking at this in five, ten years, am I going to have regrets about being passive and just letting things die on their own? I wouldn't be able to say that I did what I could, that I shot my shot, if I continue acting the way I'm acting.
What things can you do to arouse interest in her? Last year I downloaded Snapchat ( I hate Snapchat and my W knew that) because a friend said to. I got a bunch of texts and calls. My W assumed I was chatting with other women on there and quizzed me about it. Is there something like this that is maybe an indirect way of grabbing attention? Personally I wouldn't want to go peacocking past her if I was you, but there's got to be a way to arouse some interest.
I thought this post was going to be a quickie, ha.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
I hear you, but here's my push back. First, I don't believe it's bringing me any closer to my goal. We talk next to never, and we're more apart than we've ever been, both emotionally and physically. If I'm sitting back looking at this in five, ten years, am I going to have regrets about being passive and just letting things die on their own? I wouldn't be able to say that I did what I could, that I shot my shot, if I continue acting the way I'm acting.
LH described it well, the "illusion of action" syndrome that strikes a lot (most, if not all) of LBS's. Another way to look at it is this, what if you take the "Fireproof" approach and buy her gifts, write her love letters, sell your belongings and take all your savings and buy her some touching gift, and all of that gets you nowhere. In 5 or 10 years will you be looking back saying "gee I sure wish I had DB'd instead of all that crazy pursuit behavior!"? Because what I can tell you from my many years here is pursuit has NEVER, EVER brought a WAS back. Not one single time! But time and space and distance? Yes, it has resulted in numerous recons.
DBing does not have a 100% success rate. But the beauty of it is even if it doesn't result in recon, it puts you in a position to move on as a better person. Pursuit behavior? It kills any chance of recon and does not give you one bit of personal growth to take into your future life and relationships.
Push back on your push back
Quote
She asked for space - I think I've gone above and beyond in giving it to her, more than almost anyone would. What's been advocated here is more and more and more and more, with zero evidence that continuing down that path will suddenly change things. I hear you when you say that this advice is given on the back of numerous examples, but it's really hard to go with that on faith when I feel as if I'm in a worse place than when I started.
Far too soon to know. I know 4 months seems like an eternity but DB'ing doesn't work that fast (nor any other technique).
Quote
Secondly, it's also not who I am. It's incredibly hard for me just to sit here and feel like it's slipping away, and tell myself to not do anything about it. I feel like the rules and advice are in place to avoid someone doing real damage: making demands, crying, pleading, begging, and demanding timelines. That hasn't been and will never be me - I just have to think there's some middle ground here, and I'm trying to find it.
DB'ing is COUNTERINTUITIVE. That's why you feel like it's not "who you are". Every fiber of your being is telling you to pursue her, because if you don't it'll give her the wrong impression. The reason we men are wired this way is because after a normal fight or argument or disagreement then pursuit behavior is EXACTLY what is needed. Buy her flowers, apologize, ask her out to dinner. Before you know it things are back to normal. But when you get BD'd, the old rules no longer apply. It is completely different than anything you've EVER gone through! DBing is your best chance, but you've got to trust it, and suppress what your inner voice is telling you.
What things can you do to arouse interest in her? Last year I downloaded Snapchat ( I hate Snapchat and my W knew that) because a friend said to. I got a bunch of texts and calls. My W assumed I was chatting with other women on there and quizzed me about it. Is there something like this that is maybe an indirect way of grabbing attention? Personally I wouldn't want to go peacocking past her if I was you, but there's got to be a way to arouse some interest.
^^^YES^^^ My take on this is you do it by getting out, GAL'ing, getting back in touch with old friends, making new ones. The byproduct of that is you'll be getting and returning a lot of calls and texts which communicates to her that you are BUSY and HIGH VALUE. Even if it's nothing but guys you're talking to, she doesn't know that. She just sees you reading, smiling, laughing, replying and it'll make her wonder what you're up to.
You mention having the goal of reconciling. Your IC is giving you advice on things to try. The hardest part of DB is letting go of that goal. I think of it like a Zen paradox... you can still want it, but you can't let that desire affect your actions and behaviors and thoughts. This is virtually impossible to do in practice. So what is advised is a "fake it 'til you make it" approach.
The alternative is to let that R goal whip you around like a sail in the wind. I sense you are struggling with this right now. You want to do something (as others have said). You don't want to look back and regret sitting back and "doing nothing" (which is what DB can feel like).
I've been talking with my IC about dealing with the self-doubt you describe. The feeling that "if I had just done something different..." I could have saved things. It's especially painful because my WAW has said things like "You didn't win me back" or "You didn't seem to try." She asked me point blank "Do you still have romantic feelings for me?" She wanted this to not be all on her. All of this feedback reinforced my own doubts about DB strategies and whether they were right. And then I remembered... I bought her flowers, I made her birthday special, I wrote her love letters, I wrote her little notes every day. This was NOT about me losing interest. I did try. I did fight in my way to win her back. We just reached a point where she wanted space, and her heart was closed off.
My point is... don't beat yourself up over whether you have picked the "right" strategy. As somebody posted above, if you have to be the best version of yourself to win her back, that's not really you. We all have bad days. Love is about appreciating the flaws in someone else.
I'm also reacting to your mix of feeling down about your situation and your work. One skill I've learned here is when I feel emotionally disrupted, take some time and just let things settle. Don't ruminate, don't act, just let it settle. You mentioned it's hard to separate what is causing what, so this may help you out. I was down yesterday and couldn't pinpoint why for similar reasons. These things are cyclical.
You and I have posted about NGS. It is very much an NGS tendency to try to think of effective strategies to "win" our WAW's back. "How can I please her?" or "How can I attract her?" It's not all on you! Relationships are 50/50. She has to WANT to come back to the table. It may be today, tomorrow, 5 years down the road, or never. But she has to see value in you. Doing more attractive things is great, but do those things for you, and not for the hope of winning her back.
My last point... I don't want to guess what your WAW is thinking. You mentioned feeling like a fool and that things are obviously over. I completely get this. You feel passive and weak. Here's the thing: You do have control. You can't control your WAW, but you can control you. It feels like waiting passively because you are framing your life around her. Reframe things.
