I wish I didn't have to be here to tell my story. I wish I wasn't living in this nightmare, but here goes. I know that often times people think their stories are different, but I've been looking on this site and can't find anything like mine.
Some background.
Me-36, W-37, S-6, D-4. M-7, T-12. Pretty typical suburban life. I am the main breadwinner in the family, I have an okay job, but we do struggle financially at times (who doesn't these days). My wife has made some small comments about not being able to afford nice things, but I think she understands.
We made a sacrifice by having her be a SAHM when our oldest was born. I work pretty regular hours with some longer nights. In January of this year, she made a comment about wishing she could take some time off from being a mom. She said she felt like she's been on call for the past 6 years.
I was confused by this comment. We do try to split up the chores fairly evenly. I cook most every night, I do the grocery shopping, we both help with school stuff for the oldest and play with them. I do all the laundry except hers and she cleans and also mows the lawn. She said it helps her relax so I don't mind.
In June of this this year, I notice that she started acting a bit strange. She started taking better care of herself. She'd dress better when I went to work. Not like anything stunning but more than sweatpants. she was grooming herself different and she suddenly had some new lingerie. I asked about them because I kept track of the bills and it was kinda strange. She said she got them from a female neighbor who bought them and then decided the didn't want them. So she gave them to my W. It kinda raised my suspicions.
My wife is kind of anti-technology. She doesn't have a FB account, or twitter or Instagram or any of those things. She does have a smart phone that she uses to browse the internet, watch movies or make calls. I also didn't notice any unusual texting or new phone numbers patterns on the bill. She texts/calls her mom, her sister and me. That's it.
We also only have 1 car to save money. But I work close and she drops me off if she needs it for the day. It works well. In the evenings she mostly stays home. She might borrow the car to go to her moms or sisters or friends, but that is like 1-2 nights a month. That hasn't changed at all.
But she would also make vague comments like, "I don't know how you seem me as attractive" " "My life is no fun" 'I remember being single and it was fun" I'd try to reassure here and point out the good things in her life.
Or she'd make jokes like "How long do you think this marriage will last?" or "do you ever wish your married someone else," or point to my stomach and ask when my baby was due. It was good fun.
But again this was new. She was also a bit more distant. and spent time alone in our room in the evenings.
In early Sept, I found something that totally shocked me to the core. I don't know how to describe it but I saw that she had signed up for a popular message board system (with a color) in the name. I don't want to say what it is.I asked to use her phone because mine was dead. She gave it me without thinking and then went to bed. I went to check the weather, but I also looked a the web browser. She had forgotten to sign out of this message board. I clicked on her profile I saw that she had a number of posts on the site. Nearly all were during the day when I wasn't at home. It was sickening. She was posting photos of herself in the lingerie on certain sub threads that had themes like 'hot mamas" or "bored wifes." She posted about 10 or so photos of herself (thankfully she didn't post her face) But she was getting a lot of feedback and interacting with the people - mostly men. She told them she was in an open marriage - she's definitely not and was very flirty and playful with the people.
So I looked at the private messages and she had a lot of them from creepy guys saying disgusting things. thankfully she didn't respond to any of them.
still I was crushed. I was tempted to wake her up and throw her out of the house that night, but I didn't.
I slept on the couch because I was so upset. The next day she asked if something was wrong. I lied and said my back hurt and went to work.
When I got home she said she needed to talk. First, she asked if I had looked on her phone. I lied and said that I looked at the weather. I think that she thinks I looked at the site but never admitted anything during the talk. Then she said she was concerned about our future. Things had gotten bored and she felt like her true self was being inhibited. She said that she enjoyed having the bed to herself the night before. But felt bad about.
She said she felt like my sister and not lover. Said I never looked at her "with fire" anymore. She wanted to feel desired and she couldn't see me being that person.
I asked if there was someone else (I didn't mention the photos). She laughed in my face. Because she and said "How would I meet someone, I'm in the house all the time with a 4 year old?"
I asked if she wanted a divorce. She didn't say no or didnt' say yes. She just looked down at her feet. So I dropped it.
Since then it's been rough. We seem to be drifting apart. I'm proceeding as if she wants to get divorced and pursue the singe life. She has kept posting photos on the site. She's progressed to topless photos but nothing more. And she is still getting message from these guys.
It's hard seeing my beautiful do something so gross. At times, I don't even want her to touch me....other times I need the contract. Sex has been gone since Oct. But my wife has asked about it. I just say, "not a good idea because of what's going on"
I could use some help to save my marriage. Can it be saved? I dont' want a divorce with two small kids.
I want to talk to her about the photos and our marriage, but don't know where to start. Any ideas?
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Hey Iowa, each sitch is unique, yet they all have a lot in common too. My XW suddenly invested in sexy lingerie and got real clingy with her phone too, those are some of the early signs that BD is on the way. You haven't officially been BD'd but given what you're describing, you might as well have been.
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I want to talk to her about the photos and our marriage, but don't know where to start. Any ideas?
Well there's no "good" answer here. If you don't say anything then she will continue what she's doing and it will eat you up. If you say something then she will probably continue as well, but go deeper undercover with it. If it were me, I would tell her I know what's going on, and I am ashamed of her. And I would say no more about it. If she asks how I know, I would just say "that's not important, what's important is I know now, and you should be as ashamed of yourself as I am of you." PERIOD. I would quit snooping and get out and GAL as much as possible and give her tons of time and space. Focus on you and the kids.
We don't suggest leaving the family home for numerous reasons. If she chooses to leave then don't stand in her way. But don't go yourself.
Also do not abandon the master bed. The home is the castle and the master bed is the throne. If she likes sleeping by herself then she can go sleep on the couch.
She has lost ALL respect for you. Please read Sandi's posts and the history of her previous situation, it's not a lot different than yours, but you will hear it from the wayward's perspective (she was a wayward who later reconciled). Sandi talks a lot about the loss of respect and how damaging that is to the M, and how to get it back.
I wish I didn't have to be here to tell my story. I wish I wasn't living in this nightmare, but here goes. I know that often times people think their stories are different, but I've been looking on this site and can't find anything like mine.
Some background.
Me-36, W-37, S-6, D-4. M-7, T-12. Pretty typical suburban life. I am the main breadwinner in the family, I have an okay job, but we do struggle financially at times (who doesn't these days). My wife has made some small comments about not being able to afford nice things, but I think she understands.
We made a sacrifice by having her be a SAHM when our oldest was born. I work pretty regular hours with some longer nights. In January of this year, she made a comment about wishing she could take some time off from being a mom. She said she felt like she's been on call for the past 6 years.
I was confused by this comment. We do try to split up the chores fairly evenly. I cook most every night, I do the grocery shopping, we both help with school stuff for the oldest and play with them. I do all the laundry except hers and she cleans and also mows the lawn. She said it helps her relax so I don't mind.
In June of this this year, I notice that she started acting a bit strange. She started taking better care of herself. She'd dress better when I went to work. Not like anything stunning but more than sweatpants. she was grooming herself different and she suddenly had some new lingerie. I asked about them because I kept track of the bills and it was kinda strange. She said she got them from a female neighbor who bought them and then decided the didn't want them. So she gave them to my W. It kinda raised my suspicions.
My wife is kind of anti-technology. She doesn't have a FB account, or twitter or Instagram or any of those things. She does have a smart phone that she uses to browse the internet, watch movies or make calls. I also didn't notice any unusual texting or new phone numbers patterns on the bill. She texts/calls her mom, her sister and me. That's it.
We also only have 1 car to save money. But I work close and she drops me off if she needs it for the day. It works well. In the evenings she mostly stays home. She might borrow the car to go to her moms or sisters or friends, but that is like 1-2 nights a month. That hasn't changed at all.
But she would also make vague comments like, "I don't know how you seem me as attractive" " "My life is no fun" 'I remember being single and it was fun" I'd try to reassure here and point out the good things in her life.
Or she'd make jokes like "How long do you think this marriage will last?" or "do you ever wish your married someone else," or point to my stomach and ask when my baby was due. It was good fun.
But again this was new. She was also a bit more distant. and spent time alone in our room in the evenings.
In early Sept, I found something that totally shocked me to the core. I don't know how to describe it but I saw that she had signed up for a popular message board system (with a color) in the name. I don't want to say what it is.I asked to use her phone because mine was dead. She gave it me without thinking and then went to bed. I went to check the weather, but I also looked a the web browser. She had forgotten to sign out of this message board. I clicked on her profile I saw that she had a number of posts on the site. Nearly all were during the day when I wasn't at home. It was sickening. She was posting photos of herself in the lingerie on certain sub threads that had themes like 'hot mamas" or "bored wifes." She posted about 10 or so photos of herself (thankfully she didn't post her face) But she was getting a lot of feedback and interacting with the people - mostly men. She told them she was in an open marriage - she's definitely not and was very flirty and playful with the people.
So I looked at the private messages and she had a lot of them from creepy guys saying disgusting things. thankfully she didn't respond to any of them.
still I was crushed. I was tempted to wake her up and throw her out of the house that night, but I didn't.
I slept on the couch because I was so upset. The next day she asked if something was wrong. I lied and said my back hurt and went to work.
When I got home she said she needed to talk. First, she asked if I had looked on her phone. I lied and said that I looked at the weather. I think that she thinks I looked at the site but never admitted anything during the talk. Then she said she was concerned about our future. Things had gotten bored and she felt like her true self was being inhibited. She said that she enjoyed having the bed to herself the night before. But felt bad about.
She said she felt like my sister and not lover. Said I never looked at her "with fire" anymore. She wanted to feel desired and she couldn't see me being that person.
I asked if there was someone else (I didn't mention the photos). She laughed in my face. Because she and said "How would I meet someone, I'm in the house all the time with a 4 year old?"
I asked if she wanted a divorce. She didn't say no or didnt' say yes. She just looked down at her feet. So I dropped it.
Since then it's been rough. We seem to be drifting apart. I'm proceeding as if she wants to get divorced and pursue the singe life. She has kept posting photos on the site. She's progressed to topless photos but nothing more. And she is still getting message from these guys.
It's hard seeing my beautiful do something so gross. At times, I don't even want her to touch me....other times I need the contract. Sex has been gone since Oct. But my wife has asked about it. I just say, "not a good idea because of what's going on"
I could use some help to save my marriage. Can it be saved? I dont' want a divorce with two small kids.
I want to talk to her about the photos and our marriage, but don't know where to start. Any ideas?
Welcome to the board, and I am sorry you are in the sitch you are in. Your sitch reminds me a bit of mine. You can read my sitch starting here:
Cliff notes: My W started acting strange as well. Found out she was in an online EA with a much younger guy. Complete with nude photos exchanged (and she even included her face). She was sure she wanted a D. We have been in reconciliation for about a year and a half. So is there hope? Of course there is.
First, read all of Cadet's links. They are invaluable. Pay particular attention to sandi's rules. As Cadet says, get the DB or DR book and read it. Cover to cover. While you are reading it, remember everything you read here from Cadet's post.
#1 thing you need to do. GAL. Start engaging in GAL activities. Like a madman! Every minute you are not spending with your kids, you are busy. With small kids it might be a little tough, but try to get out at least a couple of nights a week. Based on her "when is the baby due" maybe a gym membership? Start eating healthier? Can't hurt to get into better shape.
#2 180 on any bad behavior. You don't sound anywhere near as bad as I was, but we can all improve. Identify ways you can be a better husband and father, and start implementing those.
#3 As cadet said, detach. Read his link on loving detachment. Keep studying the subject until you understand it, then practice working on it until you master it. You can google "self-differentiation in marriage" for another perspective on the dynamic.
Iowa, become the best Iowa that you can be! Make it so that she would be a fool to leave you. Become a man only a fool would leave!
You got this.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Sex has been gone since Oct. But my wife has asked about it. I just say, "not a good idea because of what's going on"
Iowa. The rules on sex for DBing are:
1) Do not initiate it. Getting turned down will set you back. 2) If she initiates only oblige if: - She is not in a PA (EA isn't the same thing because with no physical contact with AP sex with her is safe) - You can do so without any expectations. None. Having sex with her does not mean things are fixed.
If you can follow those rules, then I suggest actually doing that with her. In my sitch my W tried to initiate one night right after BD. When I said "really?" she said "forget it!" When I did a coaching session later with another anti-D expert, she pointed out that she was probably really horny. The next time she initiated I obliged. It was some of the best sex in years. (She did ask if we could not kiss, which I obliged as well.) But here is what I am thinking. She is clearly looking for an outlet. If she is horny and you don't provide it, she could end up looking for it elsewhere. That would be fine IF you didn't want to save your marriage. But you do.
It doesn't sound like she is in a PA, so next time she initiates, if you can heed rule #2, then go for it.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Mine did something similar with the new lingerie, new perfume, the clothes, grooming different, all that stuff, the nails anticipated weight loss surgeries, fantasy lives in Iowa and contacting Chris Soules from The Bachelor. Traveling across the country in an RV as a single Mom. Heard the same excuses of "How can I have time for another relationship or cheating when I'm home with a two year old?" Got the whole speech of I love you like a brother and I'm not in love with you anymore. We have all seen these red flags here. and heard the same things over and over to an extent. It's scripted and this place and others have the playbook. Here is where you start. Like the veterans here say do not leave the house in case of child abandonment accusations, take the master bedroom back. Calmly tell her you know but not how you know. Don't let them manipulate you into thinking that you are at fault for the way she's feeling or how she is acting. Listen for cues for what you can change if it comes up, but don't let them blame shame you into accepting that she is acting/feeling because of what you did or didn't do. Acknowledge it but don't accept responsibility for it or accountability for because that will cement her position even further.
When they lose all respect for you they justify their actions with their feelings and they will cherry-pick instances from the M that made them feel bad to justify their actions. It's called cognitive dissonance. Or as they say here (The Fog)
The vets here are more experts than I am. I have been in limbo for a year, an moving, and getting divorced anyway. But if I could do it over again, I would pack up her stuff and show her the door. Let her find another place to live. Protect your children, your assets, and your home. I wouldn't care how small infraction is or if it was just pictures she's apparently and obviously seeking attention from other men and validation from them. Don't let her shame you for snooping either or give you the spiel about invasion of privacy. She's is the guilty culprit that is acting on her current feelings and justifying them anyway she can. You see she is missing that spark and that desire from you that is why they test us about their looks and their self-esteem and attractiveness and self-worth. If she's not feeling it from you whether has to do with you and your actions, or her own and her own mindset. You're in a lose-lose situation you need to realize this right now. So if you're going to lose you better do it on your terms and with discipline integrity and respect. She's lost all respect for you. Do it now and do it early on and nip it in the bud before it gets too late, and you wind up begging, pleading, conceding arguing and she loses even more respect for you. Pack her stuff and show her the door. If she refuses to leave then you have another issue on your hands, be prepared to buckle up, meet with attorneys, protect yourself, your finances, your emotions, and your kids, because you are in for a bumpy ride. Now that you know. Stop snooping. Nothing good will come out of it but emotional instability. Give her time and space, and focus on you and your kids. Get out and GAL like everyone says here. Improve yourself. Limit discussions to logistics kids and finances, Get a L consultation, and stay the hell away from relationship talks unless she brings it up first. They are kryptonite, unless they are willing to work on the M. And they won't be doing that anytime soon because they've lost all respect for you. She clearly wants attention and validation from other men. You take back to master bedroom for two reasons one because it is your throne. Two it commands respect. ( she is going to fight you on it tooth and nail cuz she doesn't respect you.) Three. You take it back because you don't want someone else coming over the house and sleeping with your wife in that master bedroom while you're away at work, or being exposed to your kids. Steve 85 might be able to help with this kind of scenario as he has experience with the online attention seeking thing.
Another thing to mention don't be cold and distant with her but don't be pursuing either. Start setting up some serious emotional boundaries. Because clearly she has crossed a few of them, and no amount of her feelings can justify it. But try to also be aware how your behavior is got you here in the first place, if there is any validity to what she's saying.
I'm so confused. I keep reading what was said and my head is spinning.
First, I'm not pursuing her at all. I guess I wasn't clear. My view of her is changed. I'm not chasing her or following her around. I turned her down for intimate times. I am not initiating at all. In fact, I'm still trying to sort out what I found. I'm 99% sure she knows I know.
I'm not sure what you mean by setting up emotional boundaries. Emotions are natural.
Also, outside of the pictures thing there is no indication of her doing anything at all. She isn't reaching out to these creeps. I haven't talked about leaving the house. Also the advice of kicking her out isn't practical. First she is the caregiver for our youngest. I couldn't kick her out without also kicking my kids out. I am NOT going to kick a 6 and 4 year old out.
Maybe I wasn't clear in my post. I'm not sure if I can be married to her for her actions. I was the only that brought up divorce. I brought up sleeping in the other room.
I was talking to my brother-in-law (W's sisters husband) about what happened. He suggested that I create a fake account then expose her on that website. I thought it was a decent idea.
Good. No one said you were pursuing, when new people come here there is certain advice that we give to everyone because there are a lot of "typical" mistakes new LBS's make, and pursuit/ begging/ pleading/ negotiating is one of the biggest ones.
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Also, outside of the pictures thing there is no indication of her doing anything at all. She isn't reaching out to these creeps.
There are 3 types of affairs we describe here- PA (physical), EA (emotional) and IA (imaginary). What she is doing is very harmful to the marriage and does fall under the category of "affair" here. Doesn't matter whether she's reaching out to them or not, the damage is already being done. And it's very likely she will continue to escalate her activities.
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I haven't talked about leaving the house.
Again this is a piece of "proactive" advice, we're trying to warn you of pitfalls that a lot of LBS's fall into.
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Also the advice of kicking her out isn't practical. First she is the caregiver for our youngest. I couldn't kick her out without also kicking my kids out. I am NOT going to kick a 6 and 4 year old out.
You can't legally kick her out of the house. But at some point she is more than likely going to talk about leaving, and she will probably want YOU to be the one to leave. She'll say some feel-good stuff like "this will really help our marriage" or "if you could just leave for a while, I'm sure it'll help me sort this out and then everything will be fine." A lot of LBS's are very eager to help put things back to normal even if (they think) it means leaving for a while. But the WAS is simply trying to get the LBS out of the house, once they're out it's easy to keep them away with more lies, gaslighting and excuses. So they're setting up a scenario where they keep the house, they have custody of the kids, and the LBS is paying for everything while living on people's couches or in a seedy apartment. We've seen it happen so many times that we warn about it up front when people come here. A lot of our advice isn't for what is happening to you right now, it's to prepare you for what -might- happen.
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I was talking to my brother-in-law (W's sisters husband) about what happened. He suggested that I create a fake account then expose her on that website. I thought it was a decent idea.
Why? What would be the point? Don't engage in passive/aggressive actions. If you want to "expose" her then do what I suggested above and just tell her you know, and that she should be ashamed. Don't tell her how you know, don't get drawn into a long conversation, just tell her and leave the room or go for a walk or go work out.
Ok I think we need to slow down here and I can see how your confused. Right now we don't think there is an actual affair so let's table asking her to leave for right now. Also for future reference you can't legally kick here out anyway.
Let's also forget about the boundaries for a minute until we see where you stand.
IMO you have to let her know you know what's going on if it is unacceptable to you and will not be tolerated. If you are going to blow this up and she says "to bad I enjoy it too much to stop" and there is no recourse then don't bring it up. This is where a boundary comes in and you should read up more on boundaries. A boundary is to protect you. I will not live in a marriage where my W posts provocitave pictures of herself on the Internet. What you don't do is give her an ultimatum "I forbid you from posting provocitave pictures of yourself on the internet". You see the difference? The first is protecting your values and the second is trying to control her. Now remember boundaries if crossed need consequences so if you set a boundary you need to implement consequences if crosses which must be substantial or you will lose more credibility and respect which in turn creates less attraction.
IMO creating a fake account is passive aggressive so don't do it. Calmly, look into her eyes and tell her you know what's going on and I would leave the house and go for a drive and let her sit with it.
The number one problem here early on is the WW has lost respect/attraction for the LBS and the LBS desperately trying to save his marriage does desperate and needy thins that actually makes situation worse. If you can avoid that you can stay ahead of the game.
