The other shoe

[SteveLW]

Also, avoiding confrontation is a clear sign of Nice Guy Syndrome. Might want to check out that subject and maybe even read No More Mr. Nice Guy.

[Traveler]

Hi Iowa,

I don't get trying to get random women to hook up with me. I'm baffled why a pro marriage site would say this is ok.

I suspect you misunderstood the advice. Few would propose random hookups in your situation.

My wife kept asking if something was wrong. I just said I was tired from work. I tried to avoid one-on-one conversations. She also propositioned me a couple of times and I said no.

The combo of being mopey, confusing, and turning down advances is unlikely to help.

I had a thought about cutting the internet service to the house and relying only on phones. Then I could limit her access to posting photos.

You control you. She controls her. "Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, And wisdom to know the difference." Watch for other controlling tendencies and if there's a trend consider this as a possible 180 to becoming a stronger, better you.

As for the divorce decision, I don't want to split up a family. At the same time, I don't know how I can forgive my wife and move forward.

Okay, you've actually done something strong--you've realized for now your desire to keep your family together is stronger than your sense of anger/betrayal over her secretly baring her breasts on the Internet. So, not the right time to set a hard boundary like "I won't be in a relationship with someone who bares their breasts to other men." You also stated a huge obstacle is learning to be compassionate and forgive. This is something you can work on with a therapist! There are also many websites on forgiveness and compassion.

For now, review Sandi's rules and the Detachment thread for ideas on how to detach without being cold or angry. Those help answer immediate questions while you do long-term work.

[AnotherStander]

I didn't interact with the wife much. My wife kept asking if something was wrong. I just said I was tired from work. I tried to avoid one-on-one conversations. She also propositioned me a couple of times and I said no. She actually came into the bedroom only wearing a robe and flashed me. I think it was to get a reaction.

OK so you are acting cold and weird around her based on your knowledge that she's posting nudes to a sex site and claiming she's in an open marriage, but you didn't TELL her you know despite our advice so try and picture how this looks to her. You are acting sad and mopey and ignoring her and her advances for what appears to her to be no reason at all. That is classic passive/aggressive behavior. She's going to think she's JUSTIFIED in her actions because of your cold attitude towards her, you're inadvertently pushing her back to that site. I'm not suggesting you turn on the charm and put the moves on her, but I do think you should have told her that you know what she's been up to.

A few things. I did sign up for the site. I decided that I needed to see what was going on a regular basis. She didn't post anything this weekend, thankfully.

And if she does again, what's your plan of action?

I don't want to make myself more attractive to the opposite sex now. I don't care about other women and this point and frankly I'm baffled why a pro marriage site would say this is ok.

Are you referring to Ovr's comment?

I think you need to work on sex appeal and attraction with your W.

He specifically said "with your W", not other women. If you're interested in DB'ing then do try and understand and absorb what you're reading rather than putting your own spin on it. I know what you're going through is tough and it's hard to think straight, believe me I do know. Just keep working at it.

Then I could avoid the confrontation and hope that she'd stop doing this.

So you are actually avoiding the confrontation then. At least you got that in the open. Here's the problem- she's already done illicit activities and even if she stops there still needs to be a confrontation (discussion) about it. The damage is already done, and you're both living with the fallout. The problem is only one of you knows that right now.

[Ready2Change]

It doesn't sound like she is in a PA, so next time she initiates, if you can heed rule #2, then go for it.

I agree.

Also, be pleasantly different in bed. We can elaborate if needed. The goal is have her think of you differently., Like "Wow, that was my husband?? I like that.."

[Ready2Change]

Alright brother, you have a whole team of people here that want to help you save your marriage. From my perspective, you have a great shot at this. I have followed hundreds of sitch here. I have seen what works and what doesn't.

My assumption is you want to save your marriage. I will offer my best suggestions based on this assumption.

Read this post:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2846984#Post2846984

One quote that stands out for you:
"Men are attracted to the visual, woman to the verbal."

I strongly suggest that you gradually up your game in the verbal with you wife. Do this in non-pursuing way. Pay close attention to how she reacts.

she made a comment about wishing she could take some time off from being a mom.

Perfect place to validate.

W"H, I Need a break from the kids"
H:"I understand. Parenting is hard work"

You could also test the waters:

H:"I understand. Parenting is hard work. I will arrange for a sitter Friday night. How about you were that sexy black dress and we will go have some fun"

She started taking better care of herself. She'd dress better when I went to work... she was grooming herself different and she suddenly had some new lingerie.

I highly suggest you do the same.

But she would also make vague comments like, "I don't know how you seem me as attractive" " "My life is no fun" 'I remember being single and it was fun" I'd try to reassure here and point out the good things in her life.

These are big hints to you. She needs excitement in her life. You should be the one bringing her excitement.

she was getting a lot of feedback and interacting with...mostly men...was very flirty and playful with the people.

I continually do this with my lady. Hopefully we can guide you to a place that you are doing this with your lady. She NEEDS the attention. Her husband was not meeting this need.

... private messages and she had a lot of them from creepy guys saying disgusting things....

Can/do you talk to wife like they were? Do you understand "The fine art of erotic talking"? If not, look into it. Woman do like it.

Things had gotten bored and she felt like her true self was being inhibited.

Time for you to lead her into an excitement.

She said that she enjoyed having the bed to herself the night before. But felt bad about.

Just validate these type of statements.

She said she felt like my sister and not lover. Said I never looked at her "with fire" anymore. She wanted to feel desired and she couldn't see me being that person.

Sounds like a challenge to me. All is fair in love and war.

Then she said she was concerned about our future.....I asked if she wanted a divorce. She didn't say no or didnt' say yes. She just looked down at her feet.

Bomb drop. The old marriage is dead. Time for you to create a new one.

[Ready2Change]

You stand for the marriage. You stand on your beliefs. "in good times and in bad".


This is the bad times.



I would suggest you ALWAYS sleep in the master bedroom during this phase of the relationship. I do not like the term "Kick her out". Give her the freedom to sleep wherever she wants.

"I like it here. I prefer if you sleep with me, but you are free to sleep wherever you want"

You should project to her that you have had an awaking. Not a needy one, but that you want her in your life, but do not need her.

Do not reveal what you. Do not reveal how you know. BUT DO reveal that you DO KNOW:

"We both know that is not true"
"I will not be lied to"
"If you tell me the truth, I will listen"

[SteveLW]

Iowa, one other point. You seem to contradict yourself. Like the "How do I save my marriage?" vs. "I don't know if I want to be married to her." Or "Detachment sounds like giving up" vs. "I gave her the cold shoulder all weekend."

This is not a question that I want you to answer but just to think about: "Did you come here to get advice and support, or to argue with things you don't agree with?"

After all, your first post was in the discussion thread about how guns were phallic symbols and therefore inherently macho. (Something I strongly disagree with, since at my gun range 33% of the shooters are female and that percentage is growing.)

I struggled with that too. If you go back and read my first couple of threads. Here is the thing, the vets that post here have been here a longtime, have seen just about everything, and have even been through it themselves. If you let go of your preconceived notions, and try to have an attitude of openness, even if you don't agree with it initially, you will find that this place has a lot of value. Being confused at this stage is NORMAL. But don't let your confusion ignore good advice, or cause you to shutdown to advice that goes counter to your feelings. As cadet said, DBing is largely counter-intuitive, but that is what makes it work.

[Iowadazd]

I need to clear up a few things. First, it's amazing how people will fill in the gaps. I'm not sad, mopey or cold around my W. I still play with my kids. I am quiet around her but people get quiet at times. My W knows this.

Like I said. I think she knows that I know about her "hobby" When we had the talk in Sept she told me that she was bored and she was feeling inhibited and was worried about our future. She seemed worried that I don't lust after her anymore (I did) and wouldn't get that feeling back. She didn't want a divorce and didn't bring it up. My W is not a fool. She knows that we are struggling right now. She may not know that I saw her photos but that isn't the issue. really.


Steve.... I am confused I don't know if I'm the LBS or WAH. I'm not sure why you think I'm being contradictory. I really don't. I've seen an number of LBS go back and forth as well.

I do want to save my marriage but am I saving it for the wrong reason - kids, finances, etc.? I've read a number of stories on her about people drawing lines in the sand. One person said that once their spouse cheated that was the end and there was nothing that could be done. Their line was infidelity and no matter what the spouse did- changed 180, did everything right. They would never get that person a chance. Are the pictures my line? Is it saying she's like my sister?

I'm trying to figure that out.

[RAI]

I,

the way I see it, you have a tremendous advantage over many of the DBers on this site. One, it is very early in the game and you have already found this forum. Two, your W does not know for sure that you are on to her daytime activities. Three, your W is not (yet) threatening divorce. Four, your W has very articulately stated her problem - boredom and being in a rut. Five, she does not have a specific someone to draw her away from you. As others have probably said before me: You have a golden opportunity to turn this around. Most importantly, you have the gift of TIME. Read the books, and the important threads, and learn from others how to avoid the mistakes that we made. You need to start working on yourself immediately; not to win your wife back, but because you should be working on yourself regardless. Things to learn include your Ws love language, how to be an empathic listener, how to transform yourself into the husband and lover that a woman would be insane to leave. Once you achieve this level, you will not be dominated by the fear of her leaving. Right now, it may be easier to focus on her transgressions, but by trying to control her or showing disdain for her, you will drive her further into that world. guaranteed.

Is your marriage worth trying to save? ABSOLUTELY YES. I am D and now happily remarried. I don't have any regrets about it, BUT... my children will experience repercussions forever. Furthermore, I am still very entangled with my xW. Divorce does not sever the relationship, but creates a new distrusful and unpleasant relationship. You do not cut off your arm because of a hangnail, but you do cut it off if it is gangrenous and the toxins in the arm will kill you. Similarly, you do not get a D unless the M is going to kill you - for instance and abusive or violent spouse. I do not think you are in this situation and I do not think your M is killing you.

You will have to take a long hard look at yourself, accept your your role in this, take a deep breath, play your cards close to your chest, and begin doing the work.

Best of luck,

RAI

[SteveLW]

Steve.... I am confused I don't know if I'm the LBS or WAH. I'm not sure why you think I'm being contradictory. I really don't. I've seen an number of LBS go back and forth as well.

I do want to save my marriage but am I saving it for the wrong reason - kids, finances, etc.? I've read a number of stories on her about people drawing lines in the sand. One person said that once their spouse cheated that was the end and there was nothing that could be done. Their line was infidelity and no matter what the spouse did- changed 180, did everything right. They would never get that person a chance. Are the pictures my line? Is it saying she's like my sister?

I'm trying to figure that out.

Iowa, this is why I point your contradictions out! So that you could recognize your confusion, Admittedly, you might be a little bit of both a LBS and WAS. LBS because your W is the one that started to move away from the marriage. You because your reaction to her actions has been to consider walking away yourself. Most of the people that come to this forum are trying so hard to hold on to their marriage that they are gripping their WAS to the point that they want to get away. WASs are like cats, the tighter you hold them, the more they struggle to get away.

But it is okay to be confused, as long as your recognize your confusion. Trust me, I've lived it, the worst thing you can do is to make the decision to walkaway to quickly, and then spend the rest of your life wondering if you had been more patient how things might have turned out.

Anyway, the way through the confusion is to be in IC. I've seen a lot of LBSs come through this site and those that insist they can't afford IC, or that they don't believe in IC, struggle mightily. I often say to those that say they can't afford to go to IC that they can't afford to not go to IC.

I will close by asking you a question based on your discussion about where someone's line is, and your final question. I will turn it around and ask you: Are the pictures your line? Because only you can answer that.