Divorce because I betrayed her trust - THREAD 4

[DaB35]

As far as good guy? Of course you are! Good people make bad mistakes. Our mistakes do not define us, how we respond to our mistakes does. For instance, we all slip up in a moment of discomfort and lie. The lie doesn't define us. But if we do not correct it with the person we told later, that does define us.

Thanks Steve. Yes I sure have made a huge set of mistakes here. But I have addressed them and with the help of IC I do feel I've rectified my way of thinking. My outlook on life in general has improved significantly.

Keep working on you. D is not a destination....it is a step in the process. Plenty of LBS' have ended up D'd only to have their WAS come back at some point.

OK. I hadn't really thought of it like that. That is comforting I guess. I don't know what the future holds, but I know I'll want to be happy whatever happens. I am working on myself a lot. It's working, as others notice it now.

Dan, I think your response to her above sounds good. I would also suggest you pursue the option to make it legally binding just to protect yourself in the future.

Thanks AS. Yes my sister feels the same about protecting myself. I have sent the email. I think it's a reasonable polite response, not at all aggressive, and whilst I've not volunteered to do all the work for her, and not sped things up, I also have not deliberately stalled on anything to spite her.

I think we all have a certain amount of paranoia when going through D that we're getting secretly screwed somehow but it sounds like you are both in agreement on all the terms so I don't see an issue. Both parties have to give some thing up.

I don't think W will want to do me over financially - she isn't that kind of person (but then in this situation I acknowledge people can exhibit certa ncharacteristics they never previously showed). Yes we are in agreement on things as far as assets go; there is not been one argument about anything related to that.

We are both giving up a beautiful house. It really was wonderful. We both never thought we'd end up with such a nice house. But now it will be lost (when it's eventually sold). I think I've come to terms with that now.

[DS9]

Hey Dan

Ok got you with the divorce status. UK sounds very lengthy and process driven. Here in Oz its been much more streamilined.

With the property settlement, don't second guess getting legal advice, just do it. No one here can tell you if 50/50 is good, and if they do, don't listen.

Get some advice privately on your range of entitlements to the property pool between you and your W. Don't tell her, just go and do it. Only a lawyer can advise you what you may be entitled to. If the advice is in the range of 50/50, then you're golden. If not, you can think about whether you renegotiate.

Anything other than legal advice is guesswork and speculation.

Again, make it legally binding once agreement is reached. Relying on good faith that W won't chase you for more in future is absolute folly, and I'm actually surprised the UK has that option for an informal non binding written agreement.

I'm not going to mention it again, but can you tell how serious I am about you getting in and seeing a lawyer?

You'll need to pay obviously for legal advice and assistance. Think of it as an investment in your future security and peace of mind. If you're not happy or satisfied with your lawyer after that, get a second opinion form another one.

I'm sorry too about the divorce progressing and how you're feeling about that mate. Think of it as your ticket to becoming AMOAFWL. Steve said it right in that the D is a step in the process, whihc is winning your W's heart back.

Now, after you've called your L and schedueld an appt, go out and smash those castanets again and listen to New Rose by the Damned whilst getting pumped in the gym. Keep us posted with how skinny slob Dan is becoming Iron Man Dan!

[DaB35]

Little query - haven't had a reply to my email yet from W.

Shall I contact the L company who can do the financial court order and sort it out? They will still need to contact W anyway and she will have to fill in some forms, as will I, but should I take the lead on this?

Part of me says yes because I think she'll forget to do something and mess it up (she always skim-reads).

Another part of me thinks I should push the entire thing back to her as the whole D process is her decision. I have co-operated at every turn and not being obstructive, but am also not actively moved things forward myself as it's not my choice.

[AnotherStander]

We are both giving up a beautiful house. It really was wonderful. We both never thought we'd end up with such a nice house. But now it will be lost (when it's eventually sold). I think I've come to terms with that now.

It's a shame, but you're doing the right thing in getting rid of it rather than trying to hang onto to something you can't afford. I kept the house but it's been a struggle on one income. I love the home and have poured a lot of effort into it over the 20 years I've been there, but it's gone up in value so much that the property taxes have gotten outrageous and I'm planning on getting out of it in a few years. It's a part of me, but when it gets to the point of affecting finances then it's time for change. My brother kept his house in his D which is much bigger than mine with much higher bills. He lives paycheck-to-paycheck and has accumulated a lot of credit card debt trying to keep up with it. His entire life is in shambles, all because he has stubbornly clung to a house he can't afford. So even though it hurts you are doing the right thing for your future.

[DaB35]

AS, you're right.

I have tried to look at the positives. Less costly - living with my parents as a temporary thing til I get back on my feet, means I can save a lot. My commute to work is now 5 minutes not 75 minutes, so my car costs have plummeted. My parents are mortgage free, but I'm paying them some rent for utilities and food. Shorter commute means I have more time to go to the gym and see my sister more often who is only 15mins away, and she comes to see us too during the week.

I'm trying to flip things when I feel down. It's hard though - sometimes I let myself feel down as it's not good to bottle it up (that was one of my problems) but then I turn it around.

The day will come when I can get my own nice place, just for me. I can turn it into exactly how I want a house (I've never lived alone before) so I'm excited by that.

[DaB35]

One thing I've taken from NMMNG is the idea of fear and how to deal with it.

I had always been afraid of 'messing up' in front of others, making myself look silly or doing completely the wrong thing and have people laugh at me.

I was afraid of arguing with W - well not arguing but getting my view across if it differed to hers. Actually, not just her, in general. In a group of friends I would shy away from putting forward my POV on something (anything) for fear of someone calling me out and being wrong. I had done this for years and years, always thinking my thoughts did not matter. So in order to placate W I would not pick her up on things she said or did that riled me, and state how I felt. Or if I felt pressured or nervous at work I wouldn't say; I was afraid of opening up and appearing fallible to her.

I don't know if this is partly due to her 'bigging me up' to everyone she knew: she had this amazing H who is perfect and helps round the house and isn't lazy and is really kind and talented etc. So anything I did that was against that was a massive failure in my eyes so I didn't ever become vulnerable to her.

I don't feel that as much now. Just got home from IC. Another good session, where my IC has said that I've really taken such big steps forward that I've got into the habit of turning OUT on myself rather than turning IN on myself. I'm talking more, listening and communicating more, being more positive, accepting failures/mistakes (however tiny) and learning from them rather than dwelling on them.

IC was wondering if W and I would still remain friends. Logistically how would it work - where would we meet, how often, etc. I said I hadn't thought about it. I just said I'll take it as it comes. If she moves on completely and tells me she has decided that she doesn't want me in her life full stop, then it really is her loss. I'll know that I had a lovely 8 years with this person, a wonderful time when I was close to someone, but she decided she did not want to "put the effort in" (her words) when things got really bad. My sister said, "Why would you choose not to put 6-12 months of work into something, if it meant you could be happy for 40 years after that? I just don't get it!"

She will look back and see a new, reformed man with purpose and a better attitude towards himself who is getting on with his life and being the good person he really is and has been all along.

IC and I discussed what my goals were for the next 5 years. I just have two: get my own house, and pass my last set of exams so I become a fully chartered accountant. No R goals in 5 years. What happens in that respect happens.

[unchien]

Just got home from IC. Another good session, where my IC has said that I've really taken such big steps forward that I've got into the habit of turning OUT on myself rather than turning IN on myself. I'm talking more, listening and communicating more, being more positive, accepting failures/mistakes (however tiny) and learning from them rather than dwelling on them.

Self-compassion is really powerful. And getting out of your own head by turning OUT. It sounds like you have a fantastic IC.

I'll know that I had a lovely 8 years with this person, a wonderful time when I was close to someone, but she decided she did not want to "put the effort in" (her words) when things got really bad. My sister said, "Why would you choose not to put 6-12 months of work into something, if it meant you could be happy for 40 years after that? I just don't get it!"

It's great to have family support. I get these same comments sometimes. Sometimes the support person gets really riled up and angry at my WAW. I kind of shrug my shoulders. I'm not looking to feel like the bigger person. I'm just looking to accept what-is and continue on my life journey. I still struggle with this, because I do think from time to time that at least I was willing to give it a try. I don't think this attitude is going to be helpful for me, however.

[DaB35]

Thanks U.

Yes my IC is amazing. She didn't mess about. First session - I basically talked at her with my issue for an hour and she effectively said, "Right we need to look at x, y, z first then a, b, c." Really clear plan. That's what I liked about her.

[Funny aside - at this point, end of May, my W texted me all supportive, saying "I really hope your counselling goes well." Then after just 2 sessions she called me that night and expected me to tell her 'well the reason why I did all of this is [one sentence/one reason]." She was angry with me that I couldn't provide a simple explanation after seeing my IC for a grand total of 2 hours over 2 weeks! Then she was angry when she found out that I'd be done by Christmas].

It's been structured and we've come up with strategies and discussed my past, home life, school life, previous Rs, R with W, R with W's family, R with W during M, then D. What led to my addiction. Why it became an addiction. How to overcome that and general low self-worth. Stress Tolerance was an issue and dealing with it. Got more in depth as we went along. One of her specific areas of training is in addressing sex/porn addiction so maybe that's why I made such good progress quickly.

I only need to see her once a month now as she says I've come a great distance. It's been worth every penny; I do not regret it at all. I could not have got through this mess without my IC. Definitely made the Xmas card list!

Yes I agree with you - accept what is and continue on your journey. Good mantra.

[DaB35]

One thing I've thought about - when D is finalised and it is all done and dusted, what do you say to your S?

I presume when it happens she will contact me saying "The D is finalised now, so we are not married anymore." I will also get confirmation from the courts anyway.

Part of me wants to say in response, "Well, you got what you wanted." I know that is very petty and bitter and doesn't achieve anything. But it is true. She wanted it, I accepted it despite fighting for M, she's going to get it, and with that all the rubbish that goes with it (loss of house, living arrangements in disarray etc.).

I'm not sure what will happen between us when it does go through. She has said several times that she wants to remain friends - she has said (all this was said after she told me she will file for D):
"I am devastated about how it's all had to end"
"If things could have been different I really wish they could be"
"It is a lot to lose. It is very sad."
"I still care about your happiness."

However, she hasn't spoken to me much except about D logistics, and I haven't seen her since mid-September. OK, sounds like we are both GALing by ourselves essentially. But is this still a case of "believe nothing of what they say/do?"

Is she still being emotional and therefore not being logical? Does she still have enablers that are pushing her in a certain direction?

I'm mindful that Steve85 said D is just a formality, a bit of paper. I'm feeling a bit confused as to why she'd say all these things above, then not speak to me, then be cordial when contacting me, ending her emails with "Hope all is well with you." She doesn't *have* to write that - she doesn't need to ask about how I'm doing. Yet she does.

Hang on there D35, you're over-thinking again...!
[gets own 2x4]

[AnotherStander]

One thing I've thought about - when D is finalised and it is all done and dusted, what do you say to your S?

I presume when it happens she will contact me saying "The D is finalised now, so we are not married anymore." I will also get confirmation from the courts anyway.

"OK, thanks for the info."

Part of me wants to say in response, "Well, you got what you wanted."

Rather than smack you I'll just hand you this 2x4 and allow you do to the honors

I know that is very petty and bitter and doesn't achieve anything. But it is true. She wanted it, I accepted it despite fighting for M, she's going to get it, and with that all the rubbish that goes with it (loss of house, living arrangements in disarray etc.).

All valid thoughts, but no need to share that with her!

I'm not sure what will happen between us when it does go through. She has said several times that she wants to remain friends

Well that's really up to you. My XW and I were distant for a while after D but we have since settled into a friendship. I think it's tough at first because there are still so many raw feelings, but you will get over it eventually and maybe then you'll find you can be friends with her. Or maybe not! It's your choice though.

Is she still being emotional and therefore not being logical? Does she still have enablers that are pushing her in a certain direction?

A lot of LBS's struggle with enablers, thinking they are forcing the WAS to do something they might not normally do. That is not the case, it is the WAS that draws the enablers. They alienate people who don't agree with what they are doing and draw people to themselves that do support them. So don't sweat the enablers, they are not the cause of this, your W is.

Hang on there D35, you're over-thinking again...!

Yeah, it's normal, we all did it. But in the end it doesn't give you any answers.