I think I should introduce myself as currently “optimistic” which is a 180 from a month ago. I’m 3 weeks out from the BD in my 12 year marriage (Advanced apologies for not knowing/using all the lingo; I’m VERY new here). I’ve been lurking for a few days now and have read the suggested articles and posts and even quite a few threads. I’m struggling because I’m not sure if I fit the standard “rules” because doing so goes against the changes I’m trying to make.
Long story short: I’ve been stuck inside a bad dream for a couple years and have missed out on some of the best times of my life. I could see everything going downhill around me and thought that I had tried everything so I think I just gave up. I hit rock bottom when my wife asked me to leave for the rest of the week on 10/08 following a routine disagreement. I VERY reluctantly left, went to a hotel and got in my own head for 4 days, before I finally WOKE UP! When I went home, I made all the mistakes I could possibly make. I begged, bargained, overcompensated (still happening), everything I could think of while in what I refer to as “my awakening”. It felt like I had fallen asleep at the wheel, driven off a cliff and am now submerged in a dark lake and sinking fast. First reaction is to take a deep breath and allow instinct to kick in. Find solid ground and established a base. From there, you can find a way “up” to the surface and that’s where I am now. I think I’m out of reaction mode and on my way to making permanent positive changes to myself.
When I came home, I moved into the basement. For the first couple days, I pushed her, not so much for answers, but for boundaries and structure within our new situation. Those were never set but met with a reply of “let’s figure it out day by day and check back weekly to see what’s working and what’s not.” That was 2 weeks ago but I trusted my gut and stopped asking. I’ve been in the dark ever since and cannot determine the best way to approach my situation or my W.
I decided to work on me and try to give her space. I’ve been extremely successful at changing my attitude in general and taking a new approach to life. I’m working out, eating better, had my first appt. with an IC, and spending more time and having more fun with my kids. We’ve been doing a lot of family Halloween stuff the past couple weekends and it was a bit overwhelming for my W at first. I’ve been doing more around the house…a lot more, but the intention now is to help her have an easier day and get to relax a little bit. It made her mad at first that I was doing these things and spending time with the family and she even asked “Where have you been these past years? You’ve missed out on a lot.” I told her I understand that I was completely absent as a H and F and can’t change the past but only work on where I go from here.
I’ve spent a lot of time looking at my past from an outside perspective as well as my wife’s perspective. Now I can see she’s been reaching out while pulling away at the same time. I only saw her pulling away and it made me push her more. We have very different love languages (Me PT and her WoA) and I think that’s where I went wrong. Everything became a test to see if she would show me love and when I felt rejected and unloved because she didn’t engage with me in a physical way (not just sex), I started resenting her and depriving her from the love she needed as a way of pushing back. It became about unmet expectations and with every one, I pulled away further. I started wondering if she was seeing someone else and a little over a year ago, my suspicions started getting the better of me. One of her very close family members had an affair and it almost broke up their family. She cut it off, he stayed, and now they’re better than ever, but it did a number to my head. About a month after that, I woke up around 3:00 am one night and noticed my W wasn’t in bed so I went down to look for her and found her on the phone with a guy I’ve never heard of. She said she was just having a panic attack (which is common for her) and she was on FB looking for someone active so she could just talk to pull her out of the anxiety. I have asked her about whether she’s had/is having either an EA or PA and she has repeatedly told me “no”. She’s never had sex just to have sex. She has to be in love first. She has a network of friends and family and our kids that she’s been going to for support. I’ve always trusted her and still do but am wondering if I’m a fool for doing so.
We’ve gone through the cycles of acknowledging something was wrong and scratching the surface to fix it only to find ourselves in the same discussion time and time again. I realize now that the cycle could never be altered; it needs to be broken and it all starts with me. I asked her if we could see a MC and it made her mad because she’s brought it up before and I was always too prideful and dismissive. She said she needs to work on herself first but would go see one if that’s what I wanted. I decided just to find my own IC and let her do the same for now.
So here I am now, completely confused. I’m living what appears to be a completely normal life with my family in all aspects except that I feel like a stranger in my own house and walk on eggshells trying to sneak in and out of our bedroom when she’s not in there to get my clothes for the next day. When we first started talking again a couple weeks ago, we hugged a couple times but have not physically touched each other in over 2 weeks now. At one point, she was holding onto the bag of food on the center console as I was driving us home and I reached to put an extra hand on it as I made a sharp turn. My hand brushed against hers and she almost instinctively pulled her whole hand away and let me hold the bag. I’m trying to remain positive and show her that these changes to myself are real, but I realize now that I’ve broken her trust over the years and right now, this appears to be the same cycle and I should be giving up in the next week or so. It’s tough to keep a smile and positive attitude when you are being completely deprived of love from your W, and she seems so content with the way things are now.
Part of me wants to go dark and let her come to me when she’s ready, but that’s the same cycle that I’m trying to break. Me pulling away is what made her decide we might be done. She has told me she’s willing to work on our M, but right now, I feel like I’m the only one actually working on it. We’ve completely switched roles and now she’s the cold one while I’m trying to keep things together. I can finally see how she’s felt these past years, but what I fear is that she’s going to go down the same dark road I’m trying to come back from and if she does, will she make it back to me?
We know that “us” as a priority has slipped so far down the list that we never get around to it anymore. She’s asked me to set up date nights for us several times but I never did. My IC suggested that I ask her out on a date and I was considering asking her to a movie since we wouldn’t be trapped in a couple hour conversation that would stress her out, but I’m not sure if that’s the right move right now. I could handle the rejection if she said “no”, but I’m afraid of pushing her further away. Again, we are back to normal conversations and even enjoying time together, but don’t share a bed. I don’t have a W right now, I have a roommate that I want to be my W and I’m not sure where to start to get her back.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I have to tell you, reading your sitch it was as if I was reading my own sitch. The similarities are striking!! The dynamics in your sitch are very similar. Even your LLs are the same for me and my W! And I would withhold WoA and other loving emotional gestures because my PT wasn't being fulfilled. It was all very passive-aggressive.
The good news is that there is hope!! But I do need to caution you, not to fall into the trap that detachment can't work mentality. We are guys. As guys we tend to be very logical. Think about this logically:
- For years you were absent emotionally and maybe even physically. - Then your W tells you that she doesn't want to be married anymore. - So your reaction is to suddenly try to smother her with being there emotionally and physically. - Of course she will resent that. That is what she wanted for years, and now she doesn't want it and you are forcing it on her.
Logically, can that be a winning strategy? When someone wants to be left alone the worst thing you can do is force yourself on them. However, you can get them interested and maybe get them to come back themselves. That's what happened in my sitch.
So yes do all of the 180s you need to. Be more upbeat, happy, fulfilled, pleased and confident. Continue GAL and being the best father you can be. Cement these changes (IC was a good call my friend!!), and be consistent. (I am sure you read sandi's rules, to me the most important one is to be consistent because one slip up can set you back.) But do not pressure or pursue her. Become the best you that you can be, and let her see that WHEN you have an opportunity to do so.
So what are some actions you can take right now to move things forward?
1) Take back your bed. Just hop in the bed tonight at bedtime. When she protests just say "I decided I am going to sleep in here from now on. You are welcome to as well." And then leave it at that. If she doesn't like it, screams, yells, cries, complains, listen and validate....but stay in the bed. Remember, attraction is about respect for women. She might hate you for a few nights....but she WILL respect you.
2) Do not ask her out on a date yet. This is still brand new. Pursuit and pressure can come later as she moves back toward the marriage. Remember, most ICs are classically trained. THey will coach you to "woo her back". To "sweep her off her feet". That would have worked 6 months ago, or 2 years ago, or sometime in the past, but not now. Marriages are like cars. If you do the routine maintenance, change the oil, replace the air filters, change the brakes, then it will run well for a longtime. If you ignore routine maintenance, don't change the oil, and the engine seizes, well then routine maintenance is too late. Your marriage is broken down, it needs engine replacement no matter how many time you now try to change the oil.
3) Work on consistency in your 180s. Cement them. Make them just who you are. Eventually she will learn to trust the changes, but it could take a longtime. It took over a year before my W started to trust the new Steve85, and even then she still will test me now and again to see if I really have changed, and I am almost 2 years in!
4) Learn about loving detachment. EVen google "self-differentiation in marriage" to get a better perspective on what loving detachment is. That is a healthy way to be in a marriage, even if you never had a hiccup like this one. Learn about it and start practicing it. HINT: Become a master at listening and validating.
I feel good about your sitch, you just have to be diligent and consistent. But you need to temper all of that with a huge dose of patience. It took you years to get here, it isn't going to turn around over night.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Hi! I think I should introduce myself as currently “optimistic”
Welcome and hello! Yay for optimism. Some of us have reconciled.
Originally Posted by JR425
I hit rock bottom when my wife asked me to leave for the rest of the week on 10/08 following a routine disagreement. I VERY reluctantly left, went to a hotel and got in my own head for 4 days, before I finally WOKE UP!
It sounds like you needed the days apart. Going forward, though, make her do any work and deal with any hardships of separating—you don’t want it, but you won’t stop her.
Originally Posted by JR425
When I came home, I moved into the basement.
Oof, very typical, but anti-DB and one to consider reversing.
Originally Posted by JR425
That was 2 weeks ago but I trusted my gut and stopped asking. I’ve been in the dark ever since and cannot determine the best way to approach my situation or my W.
Good instincts and pro-DB. You’re sleeping in the basement and she hasn’t asked you back—you know it’s not great!
Originally Posted by JR425
I d“Where have you been these past years? You’ve missed out on a lot.” I told her I understand that I was completely absent as a H and F and can’t change the past but only work on where I go from here.
Very typical. She sees your changes but is upset they took so long and may not trust them to stay. A caution—don’t go overboard and make unfair or unsustainable changes. Don’t buy into the narrative you were completely absent before even if you were more absent than you should’ve been.
Steve85 is wise. I highly recommend following his advise. If you only do one thing he advises, it is this:
Originally Posted by Steve85
1) Take back your bed. Just hop in the bed tonight at bedtime. When she protests just say "I decided I am going to sleep in here from now on. You are welcome to as well." And then leave it at that. If she doesn't like it, screams, yells, cries, complains, listen and validate....but stay in the bed. Remember, attraction is about respect for women. She might hate you for a few nights....but she WILL respect you.
This might be the best thing I have heard in over a week. I have hope, but hearing it exists from someone who can relate so much to my situation has allowed me to take a deep breath.
Originally Posted by Steve85
1) Take back your bed. Just hop in the bed tonight at bedtime. When she protests just say "I decided I am going to sleep in here from now on. You are welcome to as well." And then leave it at that. If she doesn't like it, screams, yells, cries, complains, listen and validate....but stay in the bed. Remember, attraction is about respect for women. She might hate you for a few nights....but she WILL respect you.
2) Do not ask her out on a date yet. This is still brand new. Pursuit and pressure can come later as she moves back toward the marriage. Remember, most ICs are classically trained. THey will coach you to "woo her back". To "sweep her off her feet". That would have worked 6 months ago, or 2 years ago, or sometime in the past, but not now. Marriages are like cars. If you do the routine maintenance, change the oil, replace the air filters, change the brakes, then it will run well for a longtime. If you ignore routine maintenance, don't change the oil, and the engine seizes, well then routine maintenance is too late. Your marriage is broken down, it needs engine replacement no matter how many time you now try to change the oil.
3) Work on consistency in your 180s. Cement them. Make them just who you are. Eventually she will learn to trust the changes, but it could take a longtime. It took over a year before my W started to trust the new Steve85, and even then she still will test me now and again to see if I really have changed, and I am almost 2 years in!
4) Learn about loving detachment. EVen google "self-differentiation in marriage" to get a better perspective on what loving detachment is. That is a healthy way to be in a marriage, even if you never had a hiccup like this one. Learn about it and start practicing it. HINT: Become a master at listening and validating.
I feel good about your sitch, you just have to be diligent and consistent. But you need to temper all of that with a huge dose of patience. It took you years to get here, it isn't going to turn around over night.
1. Wow! Take back my bed?!?! That seems so counterintuitive but it’s also exactly what I want and need to do. Even if there’s no physical touching, I need to get out of the basement to shake the feeling of isolation and help keep myself positive.
2. I didn’t think I should ask her out yet either. The only things I walked away from my first IC was that I need to start letting go of the guilt and that my wife wants to be perused. I took that part with a grain of salt because I don’t believe I’ve conveyed the whole sitch yet.
3. I started out way too hard but have eased back and am trying to pick up more of the house work and helping with the kids more which is something I can definitely maintain. I’ve also tried little things just to change up the daily routine. I started making the bed every morning even though I wasn’t sleeping in it. I wanted her to have a clean and relaxing room to walk into at night to help relieve some of her stress. She told me I don’t have to do that but I kept doing it anyways. After a couple days, she started making it before I got out of the shower. I saw it and thought “aww, that’s cute!” and proceeded to tighten the sheets and comforter so tight my Marine Corps drill instructors would have been proud! She’s now thanking me every morning.
I fully understand the time and work ahead of me. I need to gain her trust back and the only way that’s going to happen is with consistency over time.
Thank you for the encouraging words. I’m getting better at keeping myself positive and not spiraling but sometimes I just need to know that I’m on the right track, or at least close to it. It can be difficult to convince myself of this while still so confused and feeling in limbo.
Just be careful with the house work. Certainly do your fair share but do not become super husband, and her maid. Remember, you need to command respect. Most women do not respect men that are playing their maid. I too in my sitch got better about helping around the house, but I still let her do her fair share. It is a balancing act.
This is especially important if she is in any type of A (EA or PA), since her respect for you is already very low. You do not want to continue to make decisions that erode her respect. Attraction to you will follow respecting you. That is what taking your bed back is all about.
Keep on keeping on!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I hit rock bottom when my wife asked me to leave for the rest of the week on 10/08 following a routine disagreement. I VERY reluctantly left, went to a hotel and got in my own head for 4 days, before I finally WOKE UP!
It sounds like you needed the days apart. Going forward, though, make her do any work and deal with any hardships of separating—you don’t want it, but you won’t stop her.
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Originally Posted by JR425
When I came home, I moved into the basement.
Oof, very typical, but anti-DB and one to consider reversing.
Per all the suggestions, I’m going to take my bed back. I’ve been wanting to do exactly that but thought I should wait for her to suggest it. It’s felt like a punishment even if that’s not her intention. The guilt I’ve been working through made me feel deserving of being a basement dweller and isolated from my family. I isolated myself for so long maybe it was time for them to isolate me. The fact is that I’m gaining my confidence and self respect back and I deserve to sleep in our bed. I’d like her to sleep there as well, but I understand if she isn’t comfortable with it and needs to sleep in the guest room for now. I plan to tell her exactly that when she questions what I’m doing walking into our bedroom tonight.
Thank you for taking the time to reach out. I greatly appreciate any help I can get right now!
Add me to the "take back your bed" chorus. It's your bed as much as it is hers... Moreso if she has strayed (but let's not assume that without knowing). Either way, Steve is dead on balls accurate, here. You need to have this woman's respect before she can even think about loving you romantically, and running away from your own room to out of the house and then to the basement or guest room isn't going to do that. None of us is saying force yourself on her physically or romantically, and your gut feeling that it's too early (WAY too early, in all likelihood) to be thinking about "dates" is spot on, but I can think of no reason you shouldn't be in that bed, and several reasons that you should.
And, yes, there is hope. Both Steve and I, as well as others here, have been blessed to make it through to reconciliation, and that was after overcoming affairs in both cases, so there IS hope. But right now, out of the box, your primary focus needs to be on you... 180s, GAL activities, turning yourself into a man only a fool would leave (AMOAFWL). Some of that will, necessarily, involve your interactions with her (listening, validation when appropriate, projecting strength and confidence in your interactions, etc) but, by and large, you will be focusing first on "saving yourself" so that, if and when the time comes, you will be better equipped to save your MR.
Stay strong, hang in there, and God Bless. We're here to help.
Last edited by hoosjim; 10/29/1907:08 PM.
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
5) Awareness/Flirting ( 93% of communication is non verbal (body language) – study and enjoy what you find attractive and your body will naturally follow your thoughts.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
