I think a lot of us here have heard the abusive/victim mentality here before in a lot of our situations, all for simply giving an oppinion in the past. Sounds like your W is accusing and projecting exactly what she is doing. Trying to fix and placate to someone who may possibly be delusional (or not) by someone who is currently repulsed by you, is going to land you into a hole of disrespect and be manipulated. Look at all of our sich's here, Wolfman's, Unichen, parts of my own and others. It will eventually die down. You can't nice them or mean them back. Just go NC and don't respond to that kind of toxicity. A few other things I picked up on his when the WAS first learns about what boundaries are, they have a very large misconception about what they are for, and properly how to utilize them. My STBXW saw 3 counselors at the same time and she described in her notes that a boundary in my case was her getting her way with the property agreement. keep in mind that they are being coached and validated by other influences and narrative. In your wife's case she thinks of boundary is something that you're Crossing by simply saying hi to her friends. Although I can understand why she would feel that way it's a simple harmless hi and you're not pursuing anything that crosses her friendships. Boundaries are there to protect you as an individual if someone is doing harm to you or trying to manipulate you. Another thing is when it comes to affairs, spontaneous feelings and resentment When they monkey branch to the next guy, they're going to recoil on you like a snake most likely making you into a villain. So come to expect it and let it wash over you and don't even respond to it
Cwarrior when you say the marriage is gone, do you mean irreconcilable?
I mean gone for now.
Originally Posted by JDevast
Her: and my friends , stay away from them and don't talk to them about me, make your own friends.
Me: understood ,I will not speak to any of them, I had only said hi to ------ and did not discuss us.
Thank you. Yes placated again. And it backfired , I just wanted the hate to stop and try rebuild some trust or safety. Didn't work out so well. It's a lifelong trait I have of making excuses rather than holding my hands up.
I think I get it. She's upset you're talking to her friends. You want her to stop feeling upset, and you want to stop feeling like you're the bad guy, so you say, "I only said hi!" But when you do this you're minimizing / invalidating her feelings. This is anti-DB and reduces feelings of trust and safety. Some sites list regular minimization as a form of emotional abuse, a past complaint you've acknowledged.
You agreement "I will not speak to any of them" when you only said "Hi" is bizarre. It's going to make you look like an alien to them when they gesture at you or say hello, or a liar when you actually respond.
Maybe practice, "Let me think about it" in front of the mirror a few times. The goal is to stop making rash decisions. Most of these rash decisions seem to have worsened your situation.
I'm going to forward her a suggested parenting plan over the weekend.
Fantastic! After you propose a plan and she agrees, makes changes, or responds with her own you're on the fast track to stop arguing about when and where the kids go.
I'm going to forward her a suggested parenting plan over the weekend.
One thing I learned, give people two choices that you are OK with.
I did some research and found two parenting plans I like. Do you like either of these?
Plan A (with details)
Plan B (with details)
If she says Neither then, you say:
Send me your desired, Plan C, and I will look it over.
IF you like it then agree. If not you modify it so it is different Than A,B or C and say how about plad D? Keep alternating with new plans until both agree. If it gets to far, suggest mediation.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
I sent over some examples this evening Said these were some examples of the type of parenting plan I was thinking off, I'm open to suggestions, let me know what you think?
No response yet, was a few hours ago, my suspicion is that she will come back with some sort of heavy parallel parenting plan.
Will wait and see, she obviously is seeking legal advice and engaging with victim support now, this is going to embed her narrative that everything I did wrong or everything I didn't do was all abusive.
I sent over some examples this evening Said these were some examples of the type of parenting plan I was thinking off, I'm open to suggestions, let me know what you think?
Instead of sending 1-2 proposals, you sent examples of types of plans you're thinking about?!
Originally Posted by JDevast
No response yet, was a few hours ago, my suspicion is that she will come back with some sort of heavy parallel parenting plan.
That also works! The first step to ending this co-parenting limbo is for one or both of you to make a proposal so the other person can agree or make changes. You're suffering, so I'd act in your shoes.
Yes I sent examples and was going to send over my proposals over the weekend? I sent the examples so she could see the type of structure and language. You feel I should have just gone ahead with the proposals?
Been writing my proposals today. Ready to send in the morning
This post is more of a journal update. Kids are spending the week with me. Wife dropped them off this morning, again no eye contact and refrained from entering property in any way she could while handing over bags.
I kept all focus and conversation on the kids,
Weirdly while out walking with the kids saw my wife in the distance walking on the beach with new friend. Could see they were having a close chat and saw friend lean over and hug her.
Gave me strange emotions, just missed her really and hurt to see her in pain. Didn't point her out to kids
Had a good day with the kids, went to cinema, got take out. But d6 has been vomiting all evening wanted to speak to mum, so I messaged wife about a vid call
Her ok, give me 5 mins
( admit this made me suspicious)
Called, could see my wife was at someone's place and had been drinking, she couldn't see me but I could see screen and could see she was emotional speaking to daughter.
She offered to come over if d6 was sick again, and to let her know if sick again,
I reassured her not to worry, I had it covered and would keep her posted
So 30mins later I update that d6 is still vomiting every 10 -20 mins but not to worry, had her in the bath, that was at 8pm
No response until 9.30 pm
Her: give Her a cuddle for me.
Me: will do, just putting her back to bed, will let you know if anything changes.
Don't know why any of this matters, maybe it's just the reality of the situation, I'm obviously still deeply attached, feel jealous and suspicious about things like "give me 5 mins" or the gaps in response.
I know if she was with someone it's completely out of my control.
Are those feelings natural or evidence I am controlling
Are those feelings natural or evidence I am controlling. Just processing
The situation [censored], and those feelings are normal. Be kind to yourself just now.
Originally Posted by Jdevast
Been writing my proposals today. Ready to send in the morning
Fantastic! That should have a big impact.
Originally Posted by JDevast
But d6 has been vomiting all evening wanted to speak to mum, so I messaged wife about a vid call
Her ok, give me 5 mins
This is great. You're cooperating to make life as good as possible for your daughter.
Originally Posted by JDevast
I reassured her not to worry, I had it covered and would keep her posted
So 30mins later I update that d6 is still vomiting every 10 -20 mins but not to worry, had her in the bath, that was at 8pm
I would omit telling the first bit, telling her how she should feel about her daughter being sick. It's okay for her to worry. Google: "3 Phrases That Are a Lot More Helpful to Say Than Don't Worry."
Originally Posted by JDevast
Me: will do, just putting her back to bed, will let you know if anything changes.
10pm Her: how is she? Me: still the same, quite regular and both ends now. 11.50pm Her: is she sleeping now? Me : in and out of sleep, keeps waking to be sick, but getting longer stretches of sleep. Her: I don't know what to do. Me: it's ok, I've got it covered
12.15 Her: can I come over in the morning? Me, yes of course
5.00am Voice mail received, sounded like accidental pocket call of her walking 5.01 Her: I've just woken up worried What time can I come over.
I was awake at 5 but waited til 7 to reply. Me: whenever you want is ok, both are awake now.
8am Her: I'll be over soon, please tell her, do you need me to bring anything? Me: I will, see you soon, I'll pop out to shops when you get here.
So she arrived, came into flat for first time, she seemed nervous, daughter was asleep, so she sat with s12. I offered her tea which she accepted, very little conversation towards me, pretty guarded but I retained a Pma as best I could joking with my son, and told wife how d6 had been. Offered Wife breakfast, she was still guarded and declined. She asked for a cigarette
Eventually daughter woke, wife comforted her, I crouched by bed and focused on being as positive and open as possible Went to the shops and on return wife said she had changed her mind about breakfast.
Conversation flowed a little easier although it was just, school and work stuff and some past stuff about the kids.
We went out for a cigarette together, I told her I had written down some proposals and ideas for the parenting plan for situations like this and would send over later today.
She seemed open to this, no mention of lawyers etc,
She just said, yes that's good, there's other things, then she paused, like Christmas etc.
Told her we could discuss it at a later time.
She then raised messaging at 5am. I validated " you woke up worried? Her: yes, I accidentally sent a voice message of me breathing lying in bed, I put a meditation on to get back to sleep.
She said bye to the kids and offered to come back later, thanked me for tea and breakfast and left.
I did notice that throughout the time at mine, her phone was pinging like crazy, she's very guarded about her phone.
But all in all things seemed calmer ish, nothing to read too much into I guess, as much as my mind is doing cartwheels, Just find it helpful to get this all out there.
