She runs a daycare/learning center out of the house. It is licensed specifically for this setup, very difficult to move unfortunately.
Okay, gotcha. I'm a little surprised she left, unless she is dealing with burnout and just wants to escape the whole building that contains issues. That would include her H, and whatever issues are in the MR. IDK about her relationship with S11, but working with toddlers every day..........I'm wondering if she feels overloaded or burned out to the point S11 doesn't get much one on one at the end of the day with his mom. I'm just throwing thoughts at you. If you see something familiar, let me know. I remember feeling a great need to escape everything. I even wanted to leave my town and start a new life.
When I first joined the board back in 2007, I posted in the MLC forum. I was suffering with a lot of depression, other health issues, and we had an adult child with a life threatening disease that had taken a huge emotional toll on me. I started playing games on the Internet, as way of getting my mind off my real world. Big Mistake!! To cut to the chase, I had an EA with OM. When I came to the board, I was at the point that I needed someone to talk to me. I had not shared my secret with anyone, and frankly, I was a mess when I showed up on MWD's board.
It took some time to get my head clear and get my heart right......but I was here reading & posting every single night until I couldn't keep my eyes open. I would read posts from other LBS's giving advice from the viewpoint of a WAW or MLCW. I didn't want to appear as if I was going against Michele's advice in her books. I back up what she says about a WAW & MLC 100% (maybe 99% ). However, I knew when there was a wayward wife in the marriage.........the H would need to be somewhat tougher than the general advice in DR for the WAW. I'm not implying he should be a jerk, or anything along those lines. If you've read my threads about the mindset of the WW, then I think you'll see what I mean.
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She does not ever go out as a family and really has been less than interested in S11, but for the bare minimum. She is adopted and our MC believes there issues stemming from locating her birth mother and being rejected by her (again) when she reached out to make contact. I am an issue, for sure, but this is really about her issues/depression.
Can you share with us how she would respond to your issues?
I cannot imagine the emotional pain she suffered, due to the adoption/rejection. It could be the thing that tips the scales and she is going to do something to escape that pain. I'm not a therapist. This is just me talking here. IMHO, when a person is suffering from MLC , those issues stem from something other than her MR. Something has happened that triggers this pain & confusion. She has anger & fear that is tied to something apart from her MR. Her pain is not isolated to her MR. Her H and family experiences the fallout of her emotional crisis, but there is something else that is forcing her to deal with her reality. Rejection, abandonment, loss of a loved one, etc., carries a lot of fear, hurt, anger, and grief with it. If she can't cope with her reality, her loved ones will suffer the results of her journey of MLC.
Now the wayward W is all about deep resentment & lack of respect that is all tied to her H. As a WW, she'll blame him for all her unhappiness b/c she believes he is responsible! Like I said previously, some of the outward symptoms may resemble MLC. However, I see differences in the sources of the MLCW's pain..........and the WW's pain. For the WW, it's all about her H and how she's been unhappy for years, yada, yada. Everything is his fault. She becomes consumed with a negative mindset about the man she married. She looses respect for him as a man, and it affects her desire. This eventually leads to rebellion. At first, it may be small signs of coldness, disrespect and rebellion against her H/MR. But once she is confronted by him.......or she drops the divorce bomb.........then you can bet she has a hidden agenda, and she is no longer a team player in that relationship. Her morals falls by the wayside. Selfishness rules her direction. Don't forget it. If she can't benefit emotionally, physically, or financially........she's not interested. The heart of a WW is cold and hard! The only man she respects is one that is stronger than she is, and one who doesn't tolerate her b.s.
Google the word "wayward", and it describes the WW perfectly.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Given all the baggage from her adoption, and the fact that she is very cordial, if not outright friendly towards me at times, I think we are dealing primarily with mental illness/MLC. That's not to say there isn't a WW/OM component here. This morning, for example, she texted when she'd be home for Sunday dinner. She indicated she had to leave earlier than usual after dinner, and I told her I had plans to go out tonight. She then texted that she would rearrange her schedule to accommodate my plans. Then she started joking about things I forgot to get for sunday dinner (we are having tacos lol), including texting "lol" etc. She also likes anything I post on social media. I find these things odd if I'm truly the bane of her existence.
Sandi, I think you nailed it in your most recent reply. She is burnt out and needs an escape for at least some temporary relief while she tries to sort herself out. I'm really focused on following Sandi's rules. I've done a pretty good job, despite an initial bobble immediately following BD. Will she ever self-realize her unhappiness is an inside job, and blowing up her family won't fix that?
Will she ever self-realize her unhappiness is an inside job, and blowing up her family won't fix that?
The million dollar question. Sandi talks often about how she came to this board and had a lot of help before figuring stuff out. Hopefully she will share a direct answer, but my guess is that without help, it is possible to self-realize but only after truly hitting rock bottom (suffering an accumulation of losses as sandi puts it) and unfortunately even then, that could take much longer than you might think.
W came over for Sunday dinner, which was fine. She was friendly and chatty and I just responded to whatever she brought up in a cordial manner. She originally texted me earlier in the day saying she needed to leave promptly after dinner. I responded that I had made plans to go out in the evening after dinner. She responded immediately that she would rearrange her schedule to she could stay to watch S11 while I went out.
W is a high-level baker, and actually made a pie yesterday (also made brownies during the week). It was the first baking she's done in almost 5 months. Also noticed she put a few pounds back on since the summer when she was working out more regularly at her gym. She asked me if I was joining the local curling club (I went to a learn-to-curl event a few weeks back) and I said I was considering it. When she left, she thanked me for cooking dinner and said "I'll see you in the morning."
Sandi, what did your H do (if anything) during your sitch that helped/hurt your decision to R?
My H was not the one who was coming to the DB board, so he wasn't getting the tools. My H had always had NGS, with the passivity, indecisiveness, etc. He was shy and not very talkative. In a group setting, he'd sit back and watch others participating. Me........I wasn't shy, had a very friendly personality, loved being in a fun group of people. I enjoyed participating in conversation, board games, singing/playing instruments, practically anything that would be considered good clean fun. After marriage, those opposite personalities will learn to compliment each other.......or drive you out of your mind!
Anyway, we never separated during my WW days. He knew something was up, so he investigated our computer's history...........and I was caught. He read every word that had been spoken between OM and me. I was so caught up in the thrill and fantasy until I didn't have enough sense to delete the history. Well, actually.......I didn't give my H enough credit in knowing how to pull up the history, b/c I didn't think he knew his way around a computer. But, he figured it out. The first time he confronted me, he was sweet but firm about me ending all activity immediately. When I went deeper underground to continue my EA, he confronted me the second time, and he wasn't sweet about it. The sh't hit the fan. The next day, we talked and I said so many things that other WW's tell their LBH! He didn't say much, but what he said carried a ton of weight. I was talking about maybe leaving (separating), and I used the famous, "Whatever happens, I want us to always be friends". His facial expression never changed throughout my dramatic display of emotions. He was calm, spoke softly. He shook his head and said, "If you leave, we will not be friends. There will be no buddy-buddy thing". Wow! That took my breath away, b/c I thought he would pine away for me, and be so grateful for my few crumbs. Nope, I underestimated him. Then,
I made the comment about me leaving and maybe later on.......if my new life didn't work out, I would come back home. (Something to that effect). His response? He looked straight in the eyes, slowly shook his head and said, "If you leave, there will be no coming back home". Wow! He did not say it with anger. He did not raise his voice. I knew he was dead serious, and it really shocked me. Like all WW's, I was a arrogant. In my mind, I could see him being so happy I would use him for Plan B! Nope, he shot that down in that one sentence. (My H never over-talks anything). .
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Very interesting thoughts, Sandi. My W didn't think I'd let her go and she also thought I'd be happy to be her plan B while she worked through her stuff. I posted previously that our MC said W was shocked when I told her I'm letting her go during our final MC session. I am not going to file any paperwork, but I will keep talking about splitting finances etc to keep her thinking she has actually been dropped by me. I could be wrong, but I don't think she truly WANTS a D. I also think she wants to be "happy" and doesn't feel there are any other moves to make to accomplish that goal.
Well, accidentally hit the submit key, so then I tried to edit my post. You know what happened next, right? I got timed out!!!
Anyway.......as I was previously saying, my H had made a couple of profound statements, and it hit me that I had not, maybe could not, imagined my life without him quietly in the background, being available for me if I ever needed him..... or if I wanted to give him another chance to make me happy. (Yes, that's the thinking of a WW).
Not much else was said that day, and I made no changes. In fact, I went even deeper underground with my EA. As with other WW's, this one interaction was not the turning point for me. However, something significant happened, and I hope any LBH's who may read this can understand what I'm trying to communicate. I didn't like what my H said..........but he gained some respect, b/c he was not playing the victim or trying to talk me into staying with him. He told me if I left we would not be friends, and once I left, there would be no coming back home. He is not the type to threaten or say things he doesn't mean. So, I took his words seriously and it was instrumental in stopping me from leaving for a few weeks and then going back home, like many WW's do. I knew once I left, there was no turning back. That is scary for a lot LBH's, b/c they have a desire to keep the road back paved smoothly. That concept has been grossly misunderstood by some newcomers. But anyway, my H wasn't going to leave a crack in the door or pave any road. It was the first thing he said/did that made me respect him a little bit, in a long-long time.
So, guys you may want to say something that will be the thing that turns her around from her waywardness, but it would be extremely rare, IMHO. The WW has to experience more than just hearing her H talk. In most cases I've read, things get worse before she is willing to even consider ending an affair, working on her MR, etc. I can look back and see how things came together and was instrumental in my decision to "do the right thing".
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I am not going to file any paperwork, but I will keep talking about splitting finances etc to keep her thinking she has actually been dropped by me.
I wouldn't keep talking about it. This is what I want LBH's to understand. The more you keep reminding your W about something........the less she takes you seriously. Say it once, without followup actions.........you might get away with it that time, but say it twice without any followup action........and it's useless. My suggestion, if you've told her you are dropping her, is to have your actions match your words. I want to caution you about saying catchphrases with your W, until you have a little more time and DB under your belt.
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I also think she wants to be "happy" and doesn't feel there are any other moves to make to accomplish that goal.
That's one of those common symptoms that seem to be found in WAW/WW/MLCW. They are desperate to feel happiness, and remaining with the H just doesn't seem to be the right answer for her. When I finally made the decision to do the right thing...........I cried like someone had died. When I told OM it was over, I cried even worse. I saw him as my last chance at happiness. See how twisted that mindset becomes? For a good while, I could get no higher than just think about being "willing" to work on my MR. I had to get willing to get to the point of willingness.......if you know what I mean. That was a very difficult task for me. I saw staying in my M as a prison sentence.
Can you describe the dynamics of your MR, before you knew something wasn't right? Who set the tone in the R? Who called the shots? Why did the sex fade away? Why did you wait so long to approach her? Just give us something to help us see what it was like being M to each other. When you read that first page of my WW threads, did it sound as if I was writing about your W?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Just wanted to touch on one of Sandi's thoughts some more, regarding how hard it hit her when her H said they would not be BFF's and she would not have the option of returning home if she left. It was because she knew he was SERIOUS. He did not say those things as tricks to get her back. A lot of LBS's will go through the motions of saying things like that hoping it scares the WAS into staying. That does not work because WAS's can tell when you mean it and when it's just lip service. And if you say it as a trick and then later try and recant, she will lose what little respect may still be left. Tricks don't ever work. Mean what you say, and be 100% willing to follow through, or don't say it to begin with.
Can you describe the dynamics of your MR, before you knew something wasn't right? Who set the tone in the R? Who called the shots? Why did the sex fade away? Why did you wait so long to approach her? Just give us something to help us see what it was like being M to each other. When you read that first page of my WW threads, did it sound as if I was writing about your W?
Our marriage was similar to many, I would guess. We were busy raising the kids and working. That's where our priorities were. I'd say we both started dropping hints to each other about 4-5 years ago. She wanted to do more things like travel, spend more time together, and I wanted a closer commute. I have traveled 75 minutes or more each way to work since we bought this house 10 years ago. The other person would respond with small positive changes for a week or two, but then we would both fall back into old habits. No one ever pressed their desire for real, substantive changes.
I would say I more set the tone in the marriage. I am 4 years older and kept track of finances, etc.
The sex faded because I became depressed (overweight and tired from commute) and she (understandably) didn't want to spend any time at the house when she wasn't operating her daycare. It would be sporadic. A great month or two, then a slow month or two. It's probably too late, but I have lost 45 lbs and look and feel better today than since before I met W.
I waited (too long obviously) to verbalize what was going on in my head. To me, when oldest went off to school (he left in August), things would change for the better. More time for ourselves, both together and as individuals. Common mistake for a male, I know.
As far as your WW thread, I would say there are similarities for sure. But she often says things like "your a good man" and she "isn't a bad person" who feels "selfish" for her actions. I think the adoption/mental illness piece is every bit as relevant as the WW. It's a mixed bag for sure.
). However, I knew when there was a
(Yes, that's the thinking of a WW).