Really not sure. Perhaps to see if I have any interest in her side of the family's happenings? Seems like an odd thing to point out for someone who has stated she wants to break the family(s) up.
Really not sure. Perhaps to see if I have any interest in her side of the family's happenings? Seems like an odd thing to point out for someone who has stated she wants to break the family(s) up.
Sounds like she's encouraging you to go do something with S11. My XW started doing that after BD as well, I think they do it as a way to drive home the point that you're NOT a family anymore. IE- "here's something you can do while you have S, go and have fun while I am off doing whatever I want."
I think she is just giving you ideas of things to do with your son. I told you before you W reminds me of my ex. The low conflict ones want out but try to keep things as smooth and amicable as possible which can be confusing if you let it.
Looking back it may have been better to have a hostel one to make it easier to detach.
That could be, although I have been doing things every weekend with S11 on my own since BD, while she has done very little with him. I should add that one of her issues with our M is likely that we did much more with my side of the family than with hers.
Thank you for all of your helpful guidance. One thing I wanted to ask you was how I should proceed with treating W? As outlined, I think we are dealing with a WW/MLCW/DepressedW and I sometimes feel stuck between treating her with tough love as a WW, and DB-ing using your 37 rules as a guide. I've been in limbo land for 5 months and I would estimate she's been in MLC mode for 19 months. What do you think?
Thank you for all of your helpful guidance. One thing I wanted to ask you was how I should proceed with treating W? As outlined, I think we are dealing with a WW/MLCW/DepressedW and I sometimes feel stuck between treating her with tough love as a WW, and DB-ing using your 37 rules as a guide. I've been in limbo land for 5 months and I would estimate she's been in MLC mode for 19 months. What do you think?
I would like to know what picture comes to your mind whenever you read those two words, "tough love". When you ask me how you should treat her, I wonder if you see tough love as being mean, cold, angry, sullen, etc. It's none of those negative actions.
Can you see yourself implementing the 37 rules without feeling you have compromised your dignity, integrity, moral/spiritual beliefs? I've read thousands of posts that say these rules are so hard. The rules aren't hard, but due to the emotional feelings of the LBS, it becomes tough to stick by them. It's tough to follow directions or instructions when our feelings are trying to dictate our actions. It's tough to do something that seems so counter-intuitive. Do you feel these rules are unrealistic or don't apply to your situation? What about the page I sent you on DB detaching? (I think it was you) Have you been able to follow those guidelines? Some LBS's don't even try, b/c it is a measure of tough love. But I encourage you to start with the 37 rules, and the other guidelines (detaching, boundaries, etc.) Cadet posted. I don't recall any of them suggesting that the LBS mistreat the other spouse. It may not be to their particular liking.......but that's why we call it tough love.
I can usually spot a WW as soon as the H begins to tell the story about their MR. I've tried to get you to open up and give us more, if possible, than just her adoption issues. You compared your M to most other people's MR. You said the sex trailed off and life got busy with work and raising a family.........but I still don't know how the two of you interacted with each other. One reason I have tried to share with you as much as I have (without repeating things I posted in the WW threads) is to help you see who she is........or for you to see that it doesn't describe her. Make sense? This is why it helps to know which of you were nurtured the relationship more. Who was the dominate spouse in the bedroom. Who was the leader in the marriage/family, and who called the shots. Which of you were laid back, and who got offended the easiest? Who made the first move to make up after a fight? Did you feel she was rejecting you sexually, or were you making excuses about it? When you had sex, was it really good sex for both of you? I'm not trying to make you feel uncomfortable, I'm just trying to get a better picture of the relationship. These are just some examples to help explain what might give us a better view.
Lack of respect kills attraction/desire in the wife, and that's why I bring it up so much. Did she show you respect in front of the children, her family, and friends.........or did she lose her temper and talk down to you? Did she embarrass you, make you the butt of jokes, make you feel put down, or treat you some other way that showed she didn't respect you as a man? Is she the type who won't bury the hatchet, forgive, and chose to remain bitter? If you say there was no evidence of disrespect for you.........and there is no sign of rebellion, then we can move on to something else. If you aren't sure if you've been disrespected in front of your kids, or others...........let me know. Seriously, some guys just don't know, b/c it's all they've ever seen in marriages.
Has her adoption/bio parents been the center of every problem in the MR? How long has she known about her bio parents? Were there M problems before she knew her birth mother, or did the M start falling apart afterwards? This is what I would consider. Waywardness is exactly what the dictionary says it is! Therefore, if a couple has been together 20 years, I'm thinking some of her resentment about her H would be made known to him. I'm thinking there would have been some signs that she wasn't all that happy with him and their MR, and she begin to demonstrate a lack of respect for him. Remember, for the WW......it's about anger and blaming her H for everything wrong in her life. Maybe nothing too big at first, but over time, it became more obvious. She may have a sense of entitlement, b/c he spoiled her and acted like her unpaid employee. That's when their sex life took a nose-dive.
Every WW doesn't have the same cookie-cut personality, so I may not say every single thing your W has said, or whatever. That's why I need to you to tell us more, if possible.
I'll tell you something that a lot of WW's have in common, especially when she is moving forward with her agenda. Have you ever been conned by someone? How did it make you feel? Well, the WW cons her H, at least she tries. I'm not saying she doesn't have some other legit issues, but she will con you into believing her b.s.....even if it makes no sense. Then, you get all confused and become a big ole doormat. When does she stop the con job? When the H stops putting up with it.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I would like to know what picture comes to your mind whenever you read those two words, "tough love". When you ask me how you should treat her, I wonder if you see tough love as being mean, cold, angry, sullen, etc. It's none of those negative actions.
I see tough love as treating as if I know she's having an A. It's about trying to regain her respect. I Agree that's not mean, angry etc., but I'd be a little bit less happy cashier.
Can you see yourself implementing the 37 rules without feeling you have compromised your dignity, integrity, moral/spiritual beliefs? I've read thousands of posts that say these rules are so hard. The rules aren't hard, but due to the emotional feelings of the LBS, it becomes tough to stick by them. It's tough to follow directions or instructions when our feelings are trying to dictate our actions. It's tough to do something that seems so counter-intuitive. Do you feel these rules are unrealistic or don't apply to your situation? What about the page I sent you on DB detaching? (I think it was you) Have you been able to follow those guidelines? Some LBS's don't even try, b/c it is a measure of tough love. But I encourage you to start with the 37 rules, and the other guidelines (detaching, boundaries, etc.) Cadet posted. I don't recall any of them suggesting that the LBS mistreat the other spouse. It may not be to their particular liking.......but that's why we call it tough love.
The 37 rules, including GAL, detaching and 180s has been my major focus. The rules are absolutely realistic. One thing I need to get better at is understanding I will not see any results from my D-bing for a while, if at all.
I can usually spot a WW as soon as the H begins to tell the story about their MR. I've tried to get you to open up and give us more, if possible, than just her adoption issues. You compared your M to most other people's MR. You said the sex trailed off and life got busy with work and raising a family.........but I still don't know how the two of you interacted with each other. One reason I have tried to share with you as much as I have (without repeating things I posted in the WW threads) is to help you see who she is........or for you to see that it doesn't describe her. Make sense? This is why it helps to know which of you were nurtured the relationship more. Who was the dominate spouse in the bedroom. Who was the leader in the marriage/family, and who called the shots. Which of you were laid back, and who got offended the easiest? Who made the first move to make up after a fight? Did you feel she was rejecting you sexually, or were you making excuses about it? When you had sex, was it really good sex for both of you? I'm not trying to make you feel uncomfortable, I'm just trying to get a better picture of the relationship. These are just some examples to help explain what might give us a better view.
I would say I called the shots with the family, and led the way on the bedroom. We are both laid back and don't get offended easily. The few fights we had, I'd say I was first to make up, majority of the time. I never felt rejected sexually, it was more my complacency/depression. Sex was satisfying for us both, one of the few things we actually about regularly.
Lack of respect kills attraction/desire in the wife, and that's why I bring it up so much. Did she show you respect in front of the children, her family, and friends.........or did she lose her temper and talk down to you? Did she embarrass you, make you the butt of jokes, make you feel put down, or treat you some other way that showed she didn't respect you as a man? Is she the type who won't bury the hatchet, forgive, and chose to remain bitter? If you say there was no evidence of disrespect for you.........and there is no sign of rebellion, then we can move on to something else. If you aren't sure if you've been disrespected in front of your kids, or others...........let me know. Seriously, some guys just don't know, b/c it's all they've ever seen in marriages.
Absolutely no outward signs of disrespect from her, in private or in front of the kids. We never yelled at each other. Sometimes I get the sense she knows what she is doing isn't the right thing, but she can't help herself.
Has her adoption/bio parents been the center of every problem in the MR? How long has she known about her bio parents? Were there M problems before she knew her birth mother, or did the M start falling apart afterwards? This is what I would consider. Waywardness is exactly what the dictionary says it is! Therefore, if a couple has been together 20 years, I'm thinking some of her resentment about her H would be made known to him. I'm thinking there would have been some signs that she wasn't all that happy with him and their MR, and she begin to demonstrate a lack of respect for him. Remember, for the WW......it's about anger and blaming her H for everything wrong in her life. Maybe nothing too big at first, but over time, it became more obvious. She may have a sense of entitlement, b/c he spoiled her and acted like her unpaid employee. That's when their sex life took a nose-dive.
Adoption has not been front and center in our M, but it has been to her to a degree. We found her birth mother 20 years ago. M problems started much later.
I'll tell you something that a lot of WW's have in common, especially when she is moving forward with her agenda. Have you ever been conned by someone? How did it make you feel? Well, the WW cons her H, at least she tries. I'm not saying she doesn't have some other legit issues, but she will con you into believing her b.s.....even if it makes no sense. Then, you get all confused and become a big ole doormat. When does she stop the con job? When the H stops putting up with it.
This was why I asked the tough love question. I don't feel like a doormat...yet. But I want to cut that off at the pass and know when/how to not put up with it.
