Thank you all for the replies and advice. I do appreciate it, even if I sometimes push back and/or don't put it into practice.
I had a good night last night, got together with some of my oldest friends and just leaned on them a little. I'm lucky to have that support.
I started re-reading a few of my books, and the prevailing lesson I'm telling myself is not to panic - so much damage is done by doing things out of panic and fear. So for as uncomfortable and confused I am, I'm telling myself to get through the day, focus on myself, and then see what tomorrow brings.
I do still have a lot of ambivalence in a few areas; for example, NGS would tell me that I'm currently being a classic nice guy, subverting my needs (more clarity on whether or not she's still in this, for example) out of an abundance of consideration for what she's asked for (space). I feel like there has to be some kind of middle ground - I don't need to know the solution or all of the answers; it would just be so meaningful for me to know that she's still here, that she's still in this.
Most everyone I speak to about this tells me "S, you've got needs too, you've been as understanding as one could possibly be about this scenario, it's not unreasonable to ask for more clarity" - although I know that many on here would disagree. I know that my need for this information is coming out of my own insecurity and would simply demonstrate my lack of detachment..but it's tough. Every day is tough, when there's no communication and no insight and on and on.
One way to frame your quest for clarity would be to ask: If you had that clarity, what would you choose to do next? What if she told you "I just don't know, I still need some space"?
What if she wasn't really in it today, but next week she was? Or next month? Or next year?
Maybe she can't provide clarity right now.
Most everyone suggested after awhile that I take action as well. They aren't in your shoes. They don't understand fully what it's like. Ultimately, you are in control of your life, and you get to make the decisions.
If you are firm in your belief that you need clarity, that you are ready to make decisions about your life regardless of what she says, and that you are now operating on your own timeline, then that is one thing. If your need for clarity is actually a desire for some flicker of reassurance, well, I think you know what to do.
One way to frame your quest for clarity would be to ask: If you had that clarity, what would you choose to do next? What if she told you "I just don't know, I still need some space"?
What if she wasn't really in it today, but next week she was? Or next month? Or next year?
Maybe she can't provide clarity right now.
Most everyone suggested after awhile that I take action as well. They aren't in your shoes. They don't understand fully what it's like. Ultimately, you are in control of your life, and you get to make the decisions.
If you are firm in your belief that you need clarity, that you are ready to make decisions about your life regardless of what she says, and that you are now operating on your own timeline, then that is one thing. If your need for clarity is actually a desire for some flicker of reassurance, well, I think you know what to do.
Thanks for the input. I think if her answer was that she still needed more time and space, I'd understand and respect that. If the answer was that she's not in this, and she's not willing to work - would I pull the trigger? I don't know.
You're right though - more than anything else, this is about reassurance. Reassurance that I'm not being foolish for still holding on. Reassurance that she's taking this as seriously as I am. Reassurance that she doesn't know, or else we'd be heading down one road or another.
Your point is correct; if it's about reassurance, then it's not about her at all, it's about me. It's about me being a leaf in the wind, getting tossed about by any action (or lack of action) coming from her. And that's a terrible, unsustainable place to be.
But I'm going to be emotionally open about this: I don't feel strong right now. I almost don't even know how to fake it. I love my wife and I want to try again, try anything.
Some of you who made it to the other side of this must have iron for insides because this is just insanely brutal. I don't know how anyone does it.
Thanks for the input. I think if her answer was that she still needed more time and space, I'd understand and respect that. If the answer was that she's not in this, and she's not willing to work - would I pull the trigger? I don't know.
I hate giving advice here - it seems like based on your answer I don't think asking for clarity is necessarily going to help you right now.
Originally Posted by SteveS
Some of you who made it to the other side of this must have iron for insides because this is just insanely brutal. I don't know how anyone does it.
I am also in awe of some of the people here. I've seen enough of a glimpse of the other side to have faith I can get there.
We don't have iron for insides. This stuff hurts. It hurts like he**. It is traumatizing.
What has really helped me is to think about what I would want my W to work on. And I revisit it constantly when I am in doubt. I think... "This relationship could never really work if she did not at least start to address XYZ, and at least be willing to have a conversation about it." I have much more resolve feeling like it's not just me waiting for her to jump back into my arms. Not sure that helps, but it does flip my mindset a little bit.
Take care, SteveS - it's a marathon, we all have good days and bad days.
Most everyone I speak to about this tells me "S, you've got needs too, you've been as understanding as one could possibly be about this scenario, it's not unreasonable to ask for more clarity"
If they're suggesting >>you've been as understanding as one could possibly be<<, that implies you should >>stop being understanding<< if she respond in an unclear way. What hard action(s) are they actually suggesting? Are you willing to follow-through with those actions?
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I think if her answer was that she still needed more time and space, I'd understand and respect that. If the answer was that she's not in this, and she's not willing to work - would I pull the trigger? I don't know.
So, you plan to respond with more "being understanding". You have not reached your personal limit. Did you inform "most everyone" that you would just continue "being understanding" after seeking reassurance?
I don't have iron insides. It's easier to pose tough questions than to answer them.
So I'm now in the same camp as the rest of you - no pushing for MC, no asking if she's still in it. If either happens on their own or due to movement on the part of WAW, great - I'll be happy and take that as a step in the right direction. Otherwise, putting pressure on things and trying to enforce change isn't the right move.
Things will unfold how they unfold and the best thing I can do is make a plan for how I'm going to take care of myself, how I'm going to improve my ability to be a better partner in whatever my next relationship is, and how I'm going to achieve my goals in the next year. It's obviously difficult, but I'm trying to frame this time in my life as a positive thing; it hurts and it's insanely difficult, but I can either use this time to feel sorry for myself or I can use this time to grow. I'm going to choose the latter. And if we do R, I'll (and we'll) be in a better place for it.
Four months seems like an eternity, but I'm coming around to the idea that it's really not. Of course I'm scared that we'll just fade away, that we'll just lose touch - I think everyone in my/our situations feels like that. It's hard to have a lot of optimism and blindly assume that WAW does miss me and does love me and all of that. But it is what it is.
Just doing some journaling. It's going to be a long one.
I'll start by being honest - I've been avoiding things on here because frankly it makes me feel worse - lots of tales of heartache, irrational spouses, and tons of unsuccessful attempts at reconciliation. I'm an optimistic type and I almost never more optimistic coming here; the counterargument of course is that this forum represents reality and I'm not willing to look at my situation pragmatically. But I thank you all who have been hanging in with me.
I do have a big update: I was fired from my job. (For some background, I was a C-level exec at a large tech company.) And I have to be honest - I was bummed for about an hour, and that's it. They mercy killed me. I was unhappy there for a variety of reasons and was planning to resign on my own once more of shares vested. Long story short, I've known the CEO for five years, and he sat me down and said, "Look, I know you, you're not happy here, and you're not giving me your best - we need to move in a different direction". He was 100% right in his assessment, and 100% right to do what's best for the company.
So, instead of resigning in six months and receiving nothing, I've got a really nice severance package coming and tons of free time to get back to what I truly enjoy - early stage tech. When I met W, I was just starting my company, and she was by my side through the whole thing, all the way through the sale to my now ex-company and my shift into a corporate suit. When W quit her job after the sale to focus on her art, I was forced to really focus on things I didn't like: the corporate ladder, politics, that sort of thing. I was miserable, and when I look back on it, that's really when the troubles really accelerated between her and me - I'd come home with a cloud over my head, have a difficult time communicating it, and have an even harder time being vulnerable and sharing emotions.
Now she's gone, and my main reason for being in a work situation I didn't like isn't there anymore. So while it's never fun when someone says it's over (oh, the parallels..), this is a good thing for me and I walk away with lots of opportunities and a nice payout as well.
So, now back to my love life. Or lack thereof. WAW and I actually have been in communication more; she's sent me over a couple of links that she correctly knew I'd enjoy, and we've been back and forth on some logistical things and everything continues to be cordial and friendly. One of my 180s is being very proactive around the management of our lives; she always said she had to do so much to keep things on track, so I've taken the reins of organizing our finances, taking care of little things like getting new rental insurance, and generally pulling more weight. Relative to the job, I reached out to WAW to let her know, partly because of the finances and partly because she's on my healthcare and open enrollment is happening. We talked for 10-15 minutes by phone, and that's basically it.
The kicker: my birthday was two weeks ago, and nothing. No email, no text, nothing. And it was really, really hurtful. And of course, I know I shouldn't have had much by way of expectations, but it really took my legs out. She knows when my birthday is, and she knows that I know, so her not saying anything is a specific choice - she knew what she was doing.
And so while I'm not going to say anything to her about it, I'm finding it harder and harder to understand at all where this is going. I don't even know her perspective for why we separated, I certainly don't know what her plans are moving forward or where her head is at for starting to address the issues.
What I do know that I'm doing a terrible job of detachment; some days I feel like I'm making progress, other days I feel like it's a struggle to even get out of bed. But if there's one emotion I feel - and my therapist reminds me that it's very important to name your emotions - more than anything else, I'm embarrassed to say, is fear. I'm scared that I'll never even have the chance to show her the changes I've made. I'm scared that I'll never find someone I loved like her, and I'm scared that I'm too old to start over. I'm scared that I'll always have this heartache, stuck in a loop of beating myself up over all of the things I did wrong. And I feel like a fool for fighting, for wanting to work, for holding out hope when there's just nothing for that hope to be tied to.
But it's been four months. My friends think that's forever, but everyone on here thinks that not a lot of time at all. You're the experts so I tend to agree with you. But this is awful and so painful. On the flip side, I'm not at the end of my rope and it's unequivocally true that I love her and earnestly believe that this time (and the things I've learned in the interim) can be used for us to return to the R stronger than ever.
So, I'm going to focus on all of my new professional opportunities, continue to work on my emotional and physical health and try to just take it day by day. I don't know what else to do but GAL, and I guess hope that something magical happens where the ice thaws and we can just start at square one, going back to enjoying each other's company. I don't know what else to do. Maybe there isn't anything more.
What I do know that I'm doing a terrible job of detachment; some days I feel like I'm making progress, other days I feel like it's a struggle to even get out of bed. But if there's one emotion I feel - and my therapist reminds me that it's very important to name your emotions - more than anything else, I'm embarrassed to say, is fear. I'm scared that I'll never even have the chance to show her the changes I've made. I'm scared that I'll never find someone I loved like her, and I'm scared that I'm too old to start over. I'm scared that I'll always have this heartache, stuck in a loop of beating myself up over all of the things I did wrong. And I feel like a fool for fighting, for wanting to work, for holding out hope when there's just nothing for that hope to be tied to.
I like many of us on here have been fighting with this. Some days i feel strong and confident, other days i have to run to the bathroom at work so nobody sees me crying. I too fear the same things you do. Will I ever meet someone that i can give my love to, and they will love me back? Will I ever get out of this nightmare?
I guess all we can do is keep standing and fighting for ourselves. Not fighting for our M or hoping to R with our wives. But REALLY getting out there and doing the best with what we've got. I know I'll be ok with or without her, it's just getting to that other side that I have trouble seeing- even though I know it is there. hang in there my friend- i'll be doing the same.
Steve, there isn't anything you're going through that I haven't been through too. The self doubt, the fear, the uncertainty..... I suspect every one of us on here have experienced exactly the same thing.
Keep your chin up, though. It does get better with time.
I'm sorry about your job. It's nearly always better to leave on your own terms, but maybe not in this case.
As far as you and WAW, ya, it stinks she didn't acknowledge your birthday. Maybe she's struggling to find the new normal and failed this time. I don't know.
I wouldn't worry though about her not seeing your 180s. She'll see them or hear about them through friends.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
