Divorce/WAW due to my infidelity Part 3

[crdcheck]

Quick update - she's saying that if we open up income, then we should open up more of the finance piece, that she gave in on a lot to get this done quickly, etc. Again, respectful, no name-calling, no anger - very clinical. I replied that I was happy to have a conversation. She's now saying that there's nothing to discuss, either I sign the papers or she'll go another direction. Ack!

[unchien]

crd -

The legal date of separation can be a contentious point as it can determine how property is treated in certain states. Also check if bonus income is treated the same as salary (when it comes to support payments, etc.)

Is the bonus issue the *only* open item you have that hinges on the DoS? Perhaps one thing you can do is come to an agreement on the DoS.

One thing to consider is whether litigation would end up costing more than the additional money you would receive back anyhow. Did you document anything when you made the informal agreement?

In any case, I'm not a lawyer, so none of this is legal advice. Make sure you protect yourself. I also suggest you let go of what is "fair" or "equitable" and stick to what is "legally accepted." Your idea of "fair" will be different from hers so that argument won't help in any way. It certainly sounds like she's not going to budge.

[crdcheck]

So, my attorney (who was reviewing the mediated agreement) said that this is pretty black and white - we aren't legally separated so all income is joint. But our mediation agreement is equitable (rather than equal). There are areas where she gave, areas where I gave.

Look, I'm angry that she is trying to pull this. I've made more then her, every year, consistently for 10 years, and she pushed me to keep going further - she was happy that I wasn't home if it brought in money. Within 30 days of my taking a haircut role that got me off the road, focused on our marriage, my family, she BDs me. And now wants to throw down over what is, in the long run, a small some of money? Part of me is angry. Well, a lot of me is angry. I get why she wants out, and I made a lot of mistakes. But this entitlement thing on her end... it's hypocritical and gross, especially when she's accused me anyone who wants alimony/support of being gross (I didn't ask for it, she put that out there nearly first-thing). She's a money-grubbing scum bag who just happens to have a nice background at the end of the day (sorry, venting here... just frustrated)

Having said that, the money involved won't matter in the long run, is [FAR] less than the cost of litigation. There is no logical reason to throw in the towel on the mediation for this. I'm fine to give up. But that seems like old me. The guy who says to himself "I don't want to rock the boat, she'll think I just care about money, it's her bonus after all" (while she's fine to ignore that I put a majority of the equity into all of our possessions, that she has more clothes/shoes/cars/etc. than me). I also just want out. I've slept great every night for weeks, until last night, after I got her note that said that she wasn't playing ball. I want to sign the papers and move on with my life.

I'll also add that, I would still like to get back together. No, not as we are, but as we could be. I don't want to sabotage that over a relatively small sum of money.

I guess my question to the group is, is what makes financial and personal-stress sense as or more important than what makes "dropping the rope" sense? To further clarify, if this was a business deal, I'd walk on principle ("drop the rope"). But do I want to lock into months (or longer) of battles where we both (plus D4) end up worse-off and our respective sins out to the world (D4)? It feels like an easy answer to me but I'm biased - I always want(ed) the easy way out. Help!

Also, W posted pics/video of D4 and what used to be our dog playing in the snow. Snow days from early 2019 were one of the two best memories I have of the past year and I really want to say that to her. It's a genuine feeling, no game about it. Tell me it's a bad idea...

[unchien]

So, my attorney (who was reviewing the mediated agreement) said that this is pretty black and white - we aren't legally separated so all income is joint. But our mediation agreement is equitable (rather than equal). There are areas where she gave, areas where I gave.

From what I know, there is no mediation agreement which can leave you feeling like it was fair or equal. But plenty of agreements that are acceptable.

Look, I'm angry that she is trying to pull this. I've made more then her, every year, consistently for 10 years, and she pushed me to keep going further - she was happy that I wasn't home if it brought in money. Within 30 days of my taking a haircut role that got me off the road, focused on our marriage, my family, she BDs me. And now wants to throw down over what is, in the long run, a small some of money? Part of me is angry. Well, a lot of me is angry. I get why she wants out, and I made a lot of mistakes. But this entitlement thing on her end... it's hypocritical and gross, especially when she's accused me anyone who wants alimony/support of being gross (I didn't ask for it, she put that out there nearly first-thing). She's a money-grubbing scum bag who just happens to have a nice background at the end of the day (sorry, venting here... just frustrated)

OK, good that you vented here. Keep it here. Anger won't get you anywhere.

Having said that, the money involved won't matter in the long run, is [FAR] less than the cost of litigation. There is no logical reason to throw in the towel on the mediation for this. I'm fine to give up. But that seems like old me. The guy who says to himself "I don't want to rock the boat, she'll think I just care about money, it's her bonus after all" (while she's fine to ignore that I put a majority of the equity into all of our possessions, that she has more clothes/shoes/cars/etc. than me). I also just want out. I've slept great every night for weeks, until last night, after I got her note that said that she wasn't playing ball. I want to sign the papers and move on with my life.

I'll also add that, I would still like to get back together. No, not as we are, but as we could be. I don't want to sabotage that over a relatively small sum of money.

I guess my question to the group is, is what makes financial and personal-stress sense as or more important than what makes "dropping the rope" sense? To further clarify, if this was a business deal, I'd walk on principle ("drop the rope"). But do I want to lock into months (or longer) of battles where we both (plus D4) end up worse-off and our respective sins out to the world (D4)? It feels like an easy answer to me but I'm biased - I always want(ed) the easy way out. Help!

First of all, take all your hopes of reconciliation out of this particular decision. She got a bonus. You feel entitled to part of it. Your attorney agrees. But it would cost you more in litigation fees than the bonus amount in question. Yes, it [censored]. Your attorney may be able to help you strategize what to do next if there are options outside of litigation (but keep in mind that there is a profit motive there).

If you decide it isn't worth it, that doesn't mean you are caving in to NGS. You are making a conscious decision what's best for you.

There is a common misconception that the way around NGS is to start standing up for yourself all the time. It is not correct to frame every life decision this way. It's always good to question WHY you are making a particular decision, to make sure it is not NGS. You've already addressed it by asserting yourself and asking for what you wanted. Whether or not you got it, you stood up for yourself.

And quite frankly, I can say with 99.999% certainty that whatever you do in this particular situation will have no bearing on your R hopes.

Also, W posted pics/video of D4 and what used to be our dog playing in the snow. Snow days from early 2019 were one of the two best memories I have of the past year and I really want to say that to her. It's a genuine feeling, no game about it. Tell me it's a bad idea...

It's a bad idea. You are angry with her, you want to reminisce, you want to reconcile... focus on your detachment and emotional balance so you can make decisions from a place of calmness.

[crdcheck]

Ok, need some real advice - how do I back down? Just sign the papers? She's basically threatening that, if I don't sign by Fri, she has an appointment Monday to "go another direction." I don't know what she's thinking - maybe she thinks that she can get a better deal by litigating, maybe she's angry and trying to hurt me, maybe she thinks that I'm never going to sign, or who knows? She has a history of following through with crazy threats (e.g. calling the police and telling them I had a gun because I refused to leave the MBR) so I don't doubt her.

Here are the choices as I see them:

1) Refuse to sign unless she compromises
2) Refuse to sign unless she at least has a conversation
3) Sign, say nothing
4) Sign, tell her that I feel bullied and threatened, that I am only doing this under duress and for D4's sake

Thoughts?

[crdcheck]

Well, I got her to have a phone conversation tonight. I get the feeling that she's had it. She continues to have this conception of me as completely against her, only sees the negative, so she sees me as trying to drag this out indefinitely. Never mind that I have no reason for doing so, that the mediator's schedule drove most of the delays, that she chose the mediator, that her lawyer takes a week to do what mine can do in two days, and so on - because I questioned some language, requiring another visit to the mediator, I'm the bad guy. Same stuff, different day.

Here's the improvement - knowing that she's not able to be objective helped me to stay the course. I won't say that I followed the principles perfectly. The non-stop validation makes her mad - she wants a response, she wants my view, and she wants me to agree with her. But there were no raised voices, no anger, no name-calling. Did we make progress? I don't know. She did say that she has an appointment on Monday to begin litigation and confirmed that the door to the mediation agreement would be closed at that point. She said that she's done negotiating (she even used the term "boundary" - I think that her lovely IC is continuing to coach her). I said that going that path will cost us more and take longer. That's when she said that she thought that I would never sign, etc.

She seems to genuinely believe that she gave in on too much with the mediation agreement in the interests of getting it done quickly (which it wasn't). I get it. She also mentioned that some items she didn't even bring up (i.e. she gave in without letting me know that she was giving in). I told her that I understood perfectly because I had similar examples. So, I get where she is coming from even though I don't really agree. She knows everything she gave up but can't imagine what I gave up. She also started this process from the perspective that everything she wanted she deserved, so the reality of the middle ground being the starting point was a shock.

So, where did we land? Both are "thinking about it". She's leaving the papers she signed and notarized on my desk tomorrow. I'll probably sign and hold onto them. I don't see a scenario where holding the line gets me/D4 ahead.

Oh, one other thing - she has owed me money (no dispute about that) for a month and I asked her to give me a check tomorrow. No reason not to, there's no debate about it. She said that she'd think about it. It's amazing how her brain can manage this - I'm the mean unfair one who is extorting her but she holds onto this for weeks.

Strange thing, we stopped talking about the divorce stuff and went to talking about D4's clothes, some other expenses, couple of work things. Everything fine. In 35 minutes discussed litigation, how actions amounted to "slaps in the face", and then switched to easy conversation (though focused on D4, wasn't small talk).

All in all I want to be done.

[AnotherStander]

Well, I got her to have a phone conversation tonight. I get the feeling that she's had it. She continues to have this conception of me as completely against her, only sees the negative, so she sees me as trying to drag this out indefinitely.

Yes but it's not your fault! WAS's, they need a scapegoat and there is no one easier/ more convenient than their spouse. You are the reason for every inconvenience in her life great and small. You're why she needs a divorce, you're why it keeps getting held up, you're why she's not living the life she really wants, you're why she got beat up by Big Bertha in the 3rd grade. You you you! Don't sweat it, they all do the blamestorming. Just keep your composure and always take the moral high road.

So, where did we land? Both are "thinking about it". She's leaving the papers she signed and notarized on my desk tomorrow. I'll probably sign and hold onto them. I don't see a scenario where holding the line gets me/D4 ahead.

No one gets "made whole" in divorce. Both parties are going to lose things and probably walk away with the sense that they got the poorer end of the deal. So you've got to find a balance you're good with. I ended up eating thousands extra in the 11th hour just to avoid litigation, do I regret it? Absolutely not, the thought of fighting it out in court triggered anxiety all over again and my health was worth more than what I gave up.

Strange thing, we stopped talking about the divorce stuff and went to talking about D4's clothes, some other expenses, couple of work things. Everything fine. In 35 minutes discussed litigation, how actions amounted to "slaps in the face", and then switched to easy conversation (though focused on D4, wasn't small talk).

That's pretty wild. It's good that you kept it from escalating though.

[Augusto]

Yes but it's not your fault! WAS's, they need a scapegoat and there is no one easier/ more convenient than their spouse. You are the reason for every inconvenience in her life great and small. You're why she needs a divorce, you're why it keeps getting held up, you're why she's not living the life she really wants, you're why she got beat up by Big Bertha in the 3rd grade. You you you! Don't sweat it, they all do the blamestorming. Just keep your composure and always take the moral high road.

When I read this, I thought you were talking about my W (!!!).
Last week she was blaming me for delaying the process, and I had no idea what she was talking about!

She also blames me for her bad relationship with my mother, when I would always take her side and actually had several fights with my family, and even neglected them and their advise!

[crdcheck]

No one gets "made whole" in divorce. Both parties are going to lose things and probably walk away with the sense that they got the poorer end of the deal. So you've got to find a balance you're good with. I ended up eating thousands extra in the 11th hour just to avoid litigation, do I regret it? Absolutely not, the thought of fighting it out in court triggered anxiety all over again and my health was worth more than what I gave up.

Thanks, this makes me feel much better. Like I've said, I naturally want to give in so I'm combating that, but don't want to swing too far. Getting these signed, moving on, etc. - this money isn't worth stalling (or, worse, going to litigation). Appreciate the perspective and confirmation!

[crdcheck]

Well, I just signed the papers, so this is done as soon as W officially files them (yes, judge has to sign off, but can't imagine any issues there). Guessing today or Monday - when I let her know that I signed them and that she could grab from my desk she was down within 20 minutes (I'm not sure as I was away from my desk for a few).

I don't really feel anything at this point. Not to say that I'm completely detached or anything, and this week has been a bit of a whirlwind but I haven't really had any moments where I've missed her. Instead it's been frustration/anger w/ W over her threatening me and holding things hostage, excitement at being flirted with while at a concert.

Question: what does everyone do re: social media? Neither of us post much but there has been more of D4 lately. Candidly, part of it for me is to show others that I'm a great dad and her what she's missing out on. Not good reasons, I know, but I also know that it helps to memorialize her childhood so some posting is reasonable. But once D is finalized, do I unfriend W all over the place or still give her a view in?

I have to add to my second paragraph - as I read the papers, and as I was typing this out, I'm a bit sad again. Our 10-year anniversary was yesterday (no comments from either of us) and, well, we had a lot of great times. I know that I have a good future ahead of me but I can't help to think that it would be a better one with us as a family. But her choice, I will move forward as an individual.