The daily test of emotional fortitude

[Jac12]

Once D'd or legally separated I'm of the opinion that my time with my son is our time together, not my W's or her friends. I suppose it depends on what the agreement is (50/50, more or less?). Especially if I was to only see my son 1-2x/week I'd want that to be our time.

For item #1 - you can tell her you'd like to be part of the process of finding a psychologist. To me it's one of those things that are a bit of trial and error (finding a good therapist).

Item #2 - yes you can let her bring it up tomorrow night if she chooses. You aren't stopping her from discussing it.

Item #3 - making accommodations is fine if it's going both ways. It'll make it easier in the future. However, this is part of divorce. Personally, I wouldn't want to see my Ex on my time with my son (if it comes to that). It's hard when you are still trying to DB but it you can't be afraid to stand up for what you think is right...maybe it's part of setting boundaries.

Nothing you do will matter while your W's heart is cold. Take the high road but stand up for yourself. Detach and focus on your own growth. If she comes out of her fog she'll see things differently down the road...way down the road.

[MLCxH]

U, stop analyzing and start acting.

For item #1... she went ahead and already started reaching out. Last week in MC she implied S7's issues were my fault. I do think he needs some help, but I have a somewhat irrational fear about W's motives. Perhaps she wants to hand-select the psychologist. It's just one of those fears I have to face that she's going to drag us into court eventually.

Stop complaining and be a part of the process in finding a psychologist. If you are not comfortable with who she picks, let her know why and stand firm on choosing someone else.

For item #2... I will wait until we talk tomorrow. I don't have to, I am choosing to because I think it's the right thing for me to do.

Given your sitch appears to be worse than worst case D scenario, I would have expected you to be happy she wants to push for mediation faster. This is a gift

For item #3, I'll hear out what she has to say, but these accommodations she refers to are going to be very one-sided. It seems clear we are going to need a very detailed settlement agreement to make things crystal clear.

If mediation happens, then these informal discussions and tension between you and W will reduce

[AnotherStander]

For item #1... she went ahead and already started reaching out. Last week in MC she implied S7's issues were my fault. I do think he needs some help, but I have a somewhat irrational fear about W's motives. Perhaps she wants to hand-select the psychologist. It's just one of those fears I have to face that she's going to drag us into court eventually.

I can't imagine she would find a C that would be complicit in coercing your S into making false accusations against you. It seems unlikely, so I wouldn't worry too much about that. If anything the C may be able to help your W understand it's not your fault he's struggling.

For item #2... I will wait until we talk tomorrow. I don't have to, I am choosing to because I think it's the right thing for me to do.

For mediation, I assume you're leaving that up to her? If she starts telling you that you need to do XYZ then just state "this isn't what I want, but I understand it is what you want and I will not stand in your way. But don't ask me to do the work for you. I will give you whatever information you need from me as you need it." Leave that ball in her court.

For item #3, I'll hear out what she has to say, but these accommodations she refers to are going to be very one-sided. It seems clear we are going to need a very detailed settlement agreement to make things crystal clear.

The settlement agreement will be pretty simple. There are templates for this. You get S on ABC days and she gets him on XYZ. On odd years you have him for Thanksgiving and she has him for Christmas, then it switches on even years. Each of you needs to inform the other in writing before taking him out of state. Any visitation outside of this agreement needs to be discussed beforehand and is approved SOLELY at the discretion of the parent that has custody at that time. So in other words, if she has a friend visiting and wants to see S during your days then she needs to ask you beforehand and you can say yes or no. Will she like that? Probably not, but that's how S and D work, you no longer have 100% access to your children. It's part of the sacrifice you make for breaking up a marriage.

How well or poorly this works out is completely dependent upon the former spouses. My XW and I have been extremely accommodating to each other. I never hesitated to take the kids if she had to travel for work or planned a vacation or whatever, and she has done the same for me every time I asked. And if she wanted the kids during my time then I allowed it, and vice versa. We both would give each other at least a week's notice for any changes. We also found ways for both of us to see the kids on holidays. There's been zero animosity surrounding the kids, it has all gone very smoothly. The girls are grown and on their own now and S is getting there, so it doesn't happen much anymore. It's not something you have to deal with the rest of your life.

Unfortunately some WAS's are so mean and vindictive that it's really hard to work with them. They want to take take take and never give. I've seen situations like that, and if that's the case then you can always rely on the formal S/D agreement to dictate what happens.

[unchien]

W and I spoke on the phone last night. It was predictably awkward. I could tell she was trying very hard to be amicable.

First, we talked about S7 and his behavioral issues. We are both going to work to find some possible therapists who can help him. The discussion steered clear of blame, which was good. I discussed with my IC earlier yesterday my fears about my W trying to steer S7 in a certain direction, as possibly some plan to get something on record before we start mediation. It is a fear of mine, and he said even if she doesn't do it explicitly, she could be sending implicit messages to him. Regardless, I feel like my concern for S7's health outweighs any of my fears about what W may or may not do. He needs some help.

We also talked about some parenting strategies with S7 that we might implement together. I said I was okay with one of the ideas, and the other I felt was not going to be effective with him. I was trying to figure out if W was trying to extend an olive branch by focusing on the kids (and not who to blame), or if this was another way for her to exercise control.

Second, we agreed to use phone calls for anything that was not clear in text. Text can be used for When/Where ("I will pick up the kids at 6:30pm at your house.") The confusing situation with her friend a few days ago precipitated this. I said "Absolutely -- text does not work well for us in those situations. I'd like to have clearer communication."

Then things got weird.

My W seemed to want to get 2 messages across:

1. She is not going to retain a L now. She would tell me before retaining a L. She *really* wanted me to know that. She seemed to be fishing for whether or not I retained one.

2. She said "You're an awesome person" at one point and some other kind things. I said, more or less, "Thank you, I appreciate that." I didn't know what to say, I just wanted to make sure I did not respond with any emotion. She started talking about how hard this adjustment would be for her (and both of us). I didn't resort to my old people-pleasing ways and reciprocate. I tried to validate and said "Yeah, it will be a tough adjustment, I'm sure that it is scary to think about."

She also wanted (again) for me to help her understand how to analyze whether or not she would be able to stay in the house (either assume the mortgage or refi). She seems to think it's weird that I would not advise her. She's worried about getting a lease with no proven income if she has to move out. She is focused on strange details (like whether or not the kids will be able to continue after-school activities). I said maybe she can talk to the bank about the mortgage/refinancing. She emphasized she thought it was weird I wasn't providing more advice, but said "Thank you for what you have said." It seemed like she was exercising restraint, I could tell it took some effort. I was very flat and unemotional in general, other than inserting validation at times.

The talk went too long, and it screwed with my head. I don't believe what she says. When she says, "you are an awesome person" I don't believe it. It doesn't square. She has also chosen divorce, chosen to accuse me of abuse, chosen to tear our family apart. I carry anger and resentment over her choices. She can say these nice things and hold it together on the phone if she wants, but I am not going along with her "emotion of the day." Maybe she wants to absolve herself of guilt. Maybe she is treading lightly worried that I will react angrily in mediation. I really don't know. I can't figure out this alien person.

[Jac12]

Emotional control Unchien...whether she says good or bad things they are just words and try not to read too much into anything.

Maybe she's not so sure she's making the right choice...the more you work on yourself and give space the better the odds are that YOU will have a choice in the future. I mean, we always have a choice, but you know what I mean.

Remember, feelings change. She CAN believe you're an awesome person based on what she's feeling in that moment and at other times she'll BELIEVE that you aren't. That's her world so don't read too much into it. She's acting and talking based on her emotions...

Great job at staying neutral.

Maybe R2C can chime in on what to say to her when she asks about the house advice.

[unchien]

Maybe she's not so sure she's making the right choice...the more you work on yourself and give space the better the odds are that YOU will have a choice in the future. I mean, we always have a choice, but you know what I mean.

Remember, feelings change. She CAN believe you're an awesome person based on what she's feeling in that moment and at other times she'll BELIEVE that you aren't. That's her world so don't read too much into it. She's acting and talking based on her emotions...

Although I hate to admit it, it frustrates me that moving forward with mediation will cement in her mind that I wanted this D. But we have to move forward.

During my pre-BD days, I snooped twice on my W's phone. Once, she had a text message to a close friend describing a conversation with her father:

"He told me maybe I need a second husband. I told him I'm not even sure I want one husband."

Speculation about her thoughts is wasted energy. I've learned that here. But this text has always stuck with me. This was during a period of 3 months of almost no meaningful conversation between us, where I would reach out and she would lash out. I couldn't get her to speak with me. So I pulled over the car in March to try to talk and here we are.

I struggle to let go of the frustration I have. That she just didn't TRY. We went to MC1 and I worked hard to address her concerns. But I know now that those were not the real problems. Why she chose not to be open and honest I will never understand.

In the meantime I think she had already checked out of the MR. But rather than just tell me openly, she selected an abuse narrative. And now, she thinks she is being compassionate by telling me I'm an "awesome person."

Her "truth" appears to be that she wants to be a single mom. She hasn't faced the reality of that life, but she prefers it over one being married to me.

I have a lot of anger and resentment... I am able to keep it within and not act passive-aggressively, but it's there, and I need to acknowledge that. I hope I can work through it eventually.

[Jac12]

Unchien,

I was/still am in the same boat as you. If my W decides to D I know it'll frustrate me that she never even tried (together) to work on our relationship and keep our family together. It's heartbreaking.

My W recently told me that the person she was post BD wasn't her - she didn't recognize herself and she is sorry for how she acted. This "sorry" took 11 months. Even then I wasn't expecting it as we had Mediation with our L's booked for Nov 28th. She has since told me her feelings are changing and doesn't think it's wise to meet with the L's at this point...so we are holding off and giving some time to let the feelings sort out. In the meantime, I'm still planning on life without her as I don't know where this will end up.

My point is that these situations CAN turn around and her "truth" can change b/c it's based on emotions.

Let her face the reality of life will be like without you...drop the rope as best you can and only talk when warranted. Do NOT be the person to reach out. Get out and do things and let her wonder about you.

I hope you can work through it too.

[unchien]

Thanks jac -

When my W told me I was an "awesome person" on the phone, my thoughts were:

- Believe none of what they say.
- This could be a strategy to butter me up.
- She is confused. People are not both "awesome" and "violent and abusive."

The one thought I did not have was: "My W believes I am an awesome person."

I reached out to mediators this week. I can see I am going to need to drive this train, as I have every incentive to get mediation started and my W has every incentive to drag her feet. My W has plenty of schedule excuses as these sessions will need to be at a time where childcare is available for D4.

You and I have different situations, but I do identify with yours as far as you having the need to press for mediation to protect yourself financially and with your son. It is hard to strike that proper balance between standing up for your needs without being coldly aggressive. I'm trying to be respectful because I want us to have the best co-parenting relationship that we can for the kids' sake. If her mind changes down the road and she wants to pursue R, I guess that's fine. I'm indifferent. Even if her mind did change, I have no clue if I would be willing to try to work it out. I have some deep scars. I have some anger and resentment. I'm not sure it will go away, and that's okay. Better to acknowledge it than try to act like it's not there.

On the GAL front, things are pretty good. I'm going to a concert tomorrow night with a friend, lifting weights 3x/week, and hoping to hit the surf next week (although the water is frrrrrrigid). I'd like to get more involved in social activities and meet some new people, but work has gotten busy and I've been spending a lot of free time researching the upcoming process.

[unchien]

I've been feeling completely worn out and exhausted this week. Last night I came home and binge-watched 5 hours of TV. This is not like me.

I'm not sure what's going on exactly, but I need to practice better self-care, starting with sleep. I have a lot going on. In the last 2 months, I ramped from zero projects at work to four. I have mediation and the situation on my mind. The holidays are here and I need to prepare. I've been working out a lot in my garage which is great, but maybe also wearing me out physically. I've been isolating myself a little bit socially. My one close friend in this new area has a very busy life as well.

I'm not really wallowing, but I need to just kick myself in the butt and get out and start doing stuff and living life. I know this. Tonight I'm going to a concert with a friend. I hope I can let things go for a few hours and enjoy it.

On another front, my sister has offered to come visit me soon. She is 3 years older, and since the estrangement from my parents we have not kept in touch much. Things were awkward, and she and my W always had a dicey relationship. My sister also lost a child at childbirth, and went through some struggles where she isolated herself. My W always thinks my sister is going to play matchmaker and try to get my parents and me to talk again.

Now that I look towards the future, I want to see my sister more. Her daughter is 4 months older than my son, and we haven't seen her in 3 years. I want to repair that relationship. I want the cousins to all know each there. I want to know my niece. We live on opposite coasts, but perhaps we can arrange a yearly visit. I'm excited for it. My W has so many friends and family, and they became my friends and family. I need to start over now. I don't need the quantity of friends she has, but I also can't just sit back and wait for these connections to fall into my lap. I need to work at it. It's not natural for me.

I'm expecting W to react poorly if my sister comes out on a weekend I have the kids (which is the plan). The NG part of me wants to avoid the conflict, especially heading into mediation. But I can offer no reasonable argument why she should not come out and see the kids.

I don't feel like I need to give her advance notice, although I think it would be a courtesy in this situation.

Me: "W, my sister will be visiting the weekend of XYZ."

All along I've been viewing the settlement agreement as an endpoint, after which I can act as I please. For instance, I will not be regularly updating my W when the kids are with me. In the meantime, I've been thinking I do not want to rock the boat and tilt us towards a nasty court battle where she hurls accusations at me.

But sometimes I think I just need to make changes now. There are countless reasons she may make it nasty. Why do I keep giving her updates about the kids? Why do I feel like I need to notify her that one of my family members is visiting?

I called a good friend of mine yesterday (actually my old boss). I've mentioned him here before. He went through an amicable D with 3 small kids, and took the weekends with the kids. When alimony ran out 3 years later and he wanted 50/50 now that the kids were school-age, his XW forced it into court. She would call protective services on him while the kids were at his house. She tried to turn his oldest son against him. The whole process lasted 2 years. He got 50/50 in the end and things died down. It sounded like a complete nightmare, but he didn't speak of it that way. He sounded nonplussed and just handled what came his way. I'm sure it wasn't that easy in the moment. But he has moved on and seems incredibly happy. He is a role model for me.

[rooskers]

I don't need the quantity of friends she has, but I also can't just sit back and wait for these connections to fall into my lap. I need to work at it. It's not natural for me.

I completely understand this. My family was my life and now that it has completely gone and a new one is being built starting with my daughter and myself. What are you doing to work at it?

Why do I keep giving her updates about the kids? Why do I feel like I need to notify her that one of my family members is visiting?

I believe you want to still be attached with her in any small way. I was wanting to do the same thing at the beginning but realized it was just causing more problems. My feeling is you need to detach on this and start living your life without including your W. That means when you are having visitors or spending time with the children not only do you not need to give her updates but it shouldn't even cross your mind. Just enjoy the time with the people you love and leave it at that. If she reaches out and asks then you can make the decision whether you want to give her the update.