Ginger I will absolutely get the right of first refusal in our official agreement. From what I know, there's typically some time period specified (like, if you need a sitter for more than X hours, the other parent gets the right).
MLC you are right we have no legal agreement. For the last 3 months, we have agreed to create separate "personal spending" accounts which we fund each month. Each of us can spend that money as we please, and we have a set amount of money each month for it.
It's a messy arrangement because it is not clearly spelled out what is personal. If she takes a trip to see her family, should the gas money come out of her personal account? If I buy myself a candy bar at the gas station, should that be personal spending? It gets ridiculous quickly.
I think I should wait for the house discussion before addressing any of these concerns. We do need to figure out this house issue. The mortgage alone is larger than the max child+spousal support payment I would have to pay.
So the fact I am paying the mortgage plus her other living expenses, etc.... well had we been working on the MR I would have considered it worthwhile. Six months separated, and no movement... I need to protect myself and unfortunately start pushing things forward. She has a huge emotional attachment to the house, so I am expecting some drama.
IW good points. Isn't it crazy how sometimes we feel like we have to "let go" of so many things, and the WAS can do as they please? I know my W is also struggling, and I'm sure she feels like she is sacrificing too. With NGS it's hard to tell if I am letting go because it is prudent, or because I am trying not to rock the boat.
Co-parenting coaching (plus talking with W afterwards about the house) is postponed until later this week due to family sickness.
W told me last week she was going to start reaching out to mediators. I asked for an update this morning, and said I would start looking as well.
Son didn't wear his tracker watch all weekend at W's house. I think I'm going to bring this issue up at the next counseling appointment. I don't like the message it sends to the kids. We have been separated 6 months, and I feel like it is detrimental to our family dynamic to continue to cater to my W's trust issues.
I'm feeling a little overwhelmed with counseling, mediation, and the upcoming talk about property with my W. Add Xmas into the mix too. Anxiety is running high, which is a signal to breathe, relax, and just focus on what I can do today. So I'm going to spend a little time today after work sorting out a brief plan. Making little reminder lists on my phone has been a huge help for me... I know the list is there, so I can stop thinking about everything I have to do.
Is your son's tracking necessary when he is in the care of your W? U, ask yourself....is this just an indirect way of keeping tabs on her?
I could care less about tracking her. I'd prefer we throw the watch in the trash.
What I don't like is the current system where she wants me to make sure he's wearing the watch when he's with me.
My preference is he can wear the watch as he likes. But I do not want to be saying "S, please put the watch on" when he's with me. Kids are smart - I think it sends the wrong message.
Is your son's tracking necessary when he is in the care of your W? U, ask yourself....is this just an indirect way of keeping tabs on her?
I could care less about tracking her. I'd prefer we throw the watch in the trash.
What I don't like is the current system where she wants me to make sure he's wearing the watch when he's with me.
My preference is he can wear the watch as he likes. But I do not want to be saying "S, please put the watch on" when he's with me. Kids are smart - I think it sends the wrong message.
I'd tell her: "When he is with me he will not be wearing the watch."
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I've been dancing this tightrope for 6 months, trying to earn my W's trust as a father through our "MC" sessions so that she feels safe with me watching the kids. I've been labeled "violent," "abusive,' and "emotionally labile." She almost withheld the kids until I wrote a "parenting plan" at the last minute which had me consulting lawyers and worried about going to court.
Then she turns and at times calls me an "awesome person."
I've been reading a lot of may22 and KristinG's threads today. Blu had some great 2x4 comments. We all deserve better than this. Love shouldn't be this hard. I have 3 kids with my W. They are amazing, beautiful children. I hate that they have to experience their parents' D. That is the only thread left that I sometimes hang onto. But even worse would be them dealing with an anxious, depressed father who couldn't move on from a lousy MR. I can't recreate the magic we once had. It takes two. It takes a willing partner to have an open mind. And to be honest I don't know if I can ever get over what I've been through this year. Forgiveness will take me time.
I'm glad I came to DB. I'm glad I'm working on my issues. I'm already happier than I have ever been in my adult life. Maybe not day to day with some of the things that arise, but my life outlook is so much healthier and happier than ever before.
If DB is going to save my MR, it is going to be far in the future. When I first found this forum, I clipped out a quote from one of the vets. It described conditions for R. She needs to see me as someone of high value. She needs to be willing to fight for me. She needs to see a relationship with me as something more valuable than being alone, or a relationship with someone else. She's willing to work at it.
None of those conditions have been met. Not during our separation. Not during the pre-BD days for the 1-2 years before. It is an awful way to live.
I shouldn't mind-read. But I can't help thinking that this whole thing has been drawn out because my W doesn't want to feel guilty. She wanted me on board with the D. That's fine. I can't control how she thinks.
Life is a place of abundance. It is an adventure. I deserve more. I'm a little angry, a little bitter, a little sad. I'm also excited. It is completely overwhelming thinking about being a single dad for 3 kids 7 and under. Rebuilding a support network. Getting my feet set financially. Seeking love again, when the time comes.
U, My heart goes out to you. I'd give you a bro hug if I could. The labels she's giving you are hurtful, and I'm sure completely untrue. You know these boards well and I'm sure you recall, "believe half of what they say". No person willing to fight that hard for their family is any of those things. Not you, not most of us on these boards. We've all wronged, and everyone has by definition abused their S in one way or another but thats why we forgive. Technically I've been physically, verbally, emotionally abused by my S at one point but its all minor stuff up until the flame coming out after BD. With NGS, you probably weren't as stable as you are now, I imagine you were still easy to be around and were worth fighting for. Worth forgiving rather than resenting. What she is doing with the mixed messages is confusing and is a form of abuse. I can see why you would find R a challenge. Our S's have a lot to condone for.
I too hate that your kids have to experience their parents D. Three kids under 7 is not easy. Guiding them through life and through this is something I can tell you will do successfully based on your posts here and the efforts you've made.
Glad to hear you are happier than ever before in your adult life! You make a good point about your W perhaps feeling guilty and trying to get you on board with the D. I bet in one form or another, that's true. I think thats why WW/WAS label us, push us, hurt us, rewrite the past. Breaking up a family, they need to convince themselves they are doing the right thing and they want more ammo from you to validate their decision. You being an even better person than before BD makes it harder for her. She can keep those feelings to herself, dont let NGS absorb them. You fought for marriage in its darkest hour, for her, for you and for your kids. You are a devoted and honorable husband and father.
Last edited by Core; 12/10/1909:50 AM.
H37, W37 D4, S2 ILYBNILWY 9/19 BD 9/19 EA discovered 10/19 Currently in limbo, no D or S process initiated
Hey U - I'm sorry you're having a rough time. Take it easy on yourself the next few days till these feelings subside a bit. Don't forget to breathe, and remember these feelings will pass.
Originally Posted by Unchien
I've been labeled "violent," "abusive,' and "emotionally labile." She almost withheld the kids until I wrote a "parenting plan" at the last minute which had me consulting lawyers and worried about going to court.
Then she turns and at times calls me an "awesome person."
Honestly, U - I think your W is doing the same thing mine did months ago. Everything was my fault. In hindsight, I see that she was projecting everything on to me because she could not accept what she was feeling.
She actually told me that "you do not want to be in my head right now". She wasn't kidding - this was not drama for nothing, she was telling me the truth. She was and still is in emotional turmoil and crisis.
Knowing all of this - there is still nothing I can do or could have done. That's why detachment is recommended. That's why asking them questions about the future is so fraught with peril. Because they don't know - they are all over the map. And that's why you get an answer that can vary so wildly - because it is based on what they are feeling at that moment.
There is nothing you can do. Trying to figure out why she said those things will do you no good, buddy.
Originally Posted by Unchien
We all deserve better than this. Love shouldn't be this hard.
I'm going to kindly push back on this. None of us humans "deserve" anything in life.
I understand what I think the gist of the comment is - that we should establish boundaries in order to protect ourselves and ensure we are not allowing ourselves to be abused. Standing up for ourselves and not wilting in the face of pressure. Yes, that I agree with.
But we don't deserve anything. That's our egos talking. And IMO, love is hard. It is supposed to be hard. When you can control only yourself and there are two people in a relationship, that is practically the definition of "hard". You can only be certain of 50 percent of what the married unit is thinking. You have to trust the other 50 percent is still "in it" with you.
I think we should be careful, otherwise we do ourselves a disservice by thinking that love would be easier with the right person. IMO it borders on the line of thinking similar to what WASes are going through - the "fantasy" of an ideal match.
To me, you make a decision to be with someone because you love them, and then - you gotta work at it. Hard. That's where I failed in the 1-2 years before BD1 in my sit, and so did my W.
Of course I realize others have differing opinions from mine - but that's how I view it.
Originally Posted by Unchien
And to be honest I don't know if I can ever get over what I've been through this year. Forgiveness will take me time.
This. I feel the same way, man. That's the difference between feel-good forgiveness and true forgiveness. I'm not sure I ever recommended the book Manly Marriage Revival to you or to someone else, but there's a whole chapter in that book solely on that topic. Definitely worth a read if you get the chance, a great companion read to DB and DR.
Quote
I'm glad I came to DB. I'm glad I'm working on my issues.
Considering all you've been through, you're doing great, U. Keep focusing on yourself and your kids. Let whatever happens tomorrow, happen tomorrow.
We all deserve better than this. Love shouldn't be this hard.
I'm going to kindly push back on this. None of us humans "deserve" anything in life.
I understand what I think the gist of the comment is - that we should establish boundaries in order to protect ourselves and ensure we are not allowing ourselves to be abused. Standing up for ourselves and not wilting in the face of pressure. Yes, that I agree with.
But we don't deserve anything. That's our egos talking. And IMO, love is hard. It is supposed to be hard. When you can control only yourself and there are two people in a relationship, that is practically the definition of "hard". You can only be certain of 50 percent of what the married unit is thinking. You have to trust the other 50 percent is still "in it" with you.
I think we should be careful, otherwise we do ourselves a disservice by thinking that love would be easier with the right person. IMO it borders on the line of thinking similar to what WASes are going through - the "fantasy" of an ideal match.
To me, you make a decision to be with someone because you love them, and then - you gotta work at it. Hard. That's where I failed in the 1-2 years before BD1 in my sit, and so did my W.
Of course I realize others have differing opinions from mine - but that's how I view it.
IW - Thanks for the feedback, and hope you enjoyed your vacation!
That post on your thread from AmyC really resonated with me this morning. I guess I've never bothered to decide if my W was in MLC or not, and I don't really care, but what Amy described sounds so true.
On this point about deserving better, I could have chosen my words more carefully. Part of overcoming NGS is boosting my self-worth and self-respect. Part of doing that is reminding myself that I am a valuable person and I deserve to go out and conquer the world, rather than be a passive participant. I was a whimpering, blubbering mess writing 3 apology letters 8 months ago. I completely minimized my self-worth. It was self-flagellation to the extreme.
If love involves false abuse allegations, having your kids withheld, and having the one person you committed your life to trample all over you... I don't think it is supposed to be that hard.
But I get it... none of us DESERVE anything. DB is all about realizing you need to go out and OWN your happiness. There is a mistaken conception that you go out and find some ideal partner and then your life is just magically easy. It doesn't work that way, I get that.
I had a mistaken conception about love until the last year. I really thought love was about supporting your partner through thick and thin. I thought love cures all. I would have sacrificed everything for that. What a NG way to live (and keep in mind the NG partner doesn't enjoy the experience either). I do love my W. But that love does not trump everything else in my life anymore. Part of this process is redefining what love means to me. Love is not somebody else filling in your emotional voids. I know what love ISN'T now. I'm not sure what it IS.
Some of us choose to stand and be patient for years, and keep working on ourselves, because we see the inherent value. Some people never even find DB because they exit quickly. Maybe they work on themselves, maybe not. Maybe they repeat old patterns, I don't know.
Maybe I'm just trying to come to terms with what's around the corner. It's not what I want, but it is what it is. Maybe I'm trying to convince myself (and you anonymous forum peeps) that I'm doing the right thing, for myself and for my kids. But there is no right thing. It is elusive, and slippery, and just when you feel you have a hold of it, it's gone.
Maybe one day I will have the capacity to forgive. Maybe my W will come knocking on my door one day. I highly doubt it, but I won't erase the possibility. Stranger things have happened. I'm just not sure I'll be receptive. I probably won't.
Heading back to "MC" (co-parenting coaching) this Friday.
I know it's the same old tune, but I am thinking about making this the last session I attend for awhile. Go ahead and 2x4 me because I say it all the time =D
On the one hand, over the last 6 months, I have gone from "W is going to withhold the kids if you don't write a legally questionable document implying you are unsafe" to "near-50/50 schedule". I am happy that I have proven to be a stable father and person, and these sessions have helped calm my W's nerves at a point where I think she was liable to do some crazy things like move the kids away (which she did investigate with a L).
On the other hand, these sessions have never involved working on the MR. They usually involve one of my W's concerns, then we discuss, etc. They are not particularly useful for me. Sometimes I get gut-punched. Sometimes not. I rarely share my feelings, as I can tell she is not receptive. I validate and listen actively.
I'm just super-frustrated in general with my sitch. I feel like I have to press forward the D to protect myself financially and with the kids. But I feel that goes against DB principles. I am out of options. I know D is an arbitrary threshold in this process, and people R post-D. I just don't want to be the one pushing D forward, but my sitch almost requires it. I am subsidizing my W's lifestyle right now and she hasn't gone back to work.
It is interesting that she gave me the extra custody time I wanted. I would say with that updated plan, I would be open to continuing in limbo as-is (as far as custody goes). But financially... money is money but I am spending 2-3K more per month than I would in a worst-case D settlement. It is not sustainable.
Anyways, curious if anyone has thoughts on alternatives. A financial separation would likely trigger selling the house anyways, so I don't see it much differently than a D.
I wish I wasn't in a situation where I felt like I needed to be the one driving the D. But here we are.
