My name is Paco, originally Spanish but I had been living in Germany for 2.5 years with my wife and two sons when she asked me for a D. I have been focused on my career and neglected my marriage but I have always been a great father in and out of the house and had no doubts my W was the woman I want for the rest of my life. At the beginning I was a mess, I could not concentrate at work, I got emotional and lost temper, there were fights at home where my W said horrible things to me and I told her she was a coward and giving up on our family, there was crying… I did many bad things that I guess reinforced her decision to leave. She speaks very little German and after a brief holiday separated in Spain she said she wanted to go back to Seville as in her eyes our relationship was dead and it would be easier for her to start over.
I did my best to keep calm and keep my family in Munich where I thought the future of my children was stronger but after fights and threatening and other terrible things I agreed to sign a separation agreement so that she could go to Spain and I would visit every 15 days, she also said that would be the single possibility to save our relationship although she believed that to be impossible. I work in the best company in the world (popular online American store famous for fast shipping) so I have managed to find the way to move back to Spain (Madrid or remotely from Seville) because as you can imagine I am 200% up for saving my marriage and family.
It’s been only a month after separation, I have read DB almost twice now, I started GAL about 2 weeks ago (opera, sports, lost weight, good eating, out with friends, museums, tones of books, good music and plans with my children when I am in Spain every two weeks) but my big question is how is my W ever going to notice change if we are in different countries and all she will speak to me about is expenses from our children and via email. As many of you might have experienced, I do not recognize my W, my friends and family are discouraging when it comes to my attitude as they see me hurt and being run over by my W and all I can do is work to be my best, get a happy life and hope she will decide to give us a chance at some point in the future.
After our separation, I know she still seeks divorce and the last time we spoke on the phone she told me I should be as far as possible from her, we could never be happy together, she blamed me for all that is happening and the effect it is having in our children and she shouted that she does not want to speak to me before hanging up. It is taking all my strength and faith to stay positive, visualize the man I want to be before every interaction with her, being that man and loving her despite all the blows (I believe I have made many selfish mistakes before and is time to look down and show true love).
I found this forum and thought as I loved DB maybe people here could help me with cross country separation and my approach to reaching to her, even if that means not reaching at all. As one of my try new things I was thinking about sending her the DB book as a Christmas gift saying something along the lines of only read it if you freely feel like it. I do not want to control her by doing this, I feel she needs to know the concepts in DB and she is only surrounding herself with people that support separation (oh! this person or that one got separated and took the kids to a psychologist, you will be fine or you deserve to be happy and you are so young) and I think this is really hurting our potential future, if there is any. She for example has created this support circle with her cousin who recently cancelled her wedding to a cheating boyfriend because she realized she was not truly in love and I cannot believe situations are comparable at any level. Anyway, my hymn now is optimism, happiness, consistency, change and unconditional love to her and my children.
Me 29 W:29 M: 5yrs T:10yrs S:6yrs S:1 yr BD: "I want a D" 08/09/19 Sep: 10/27/19
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Me 29 W:29 M: 5yrs T:10yrs S:6 yrs S:1 yr BD: "I want a D" 08/09/19 Sep: 10/27/19
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Paco, welcome and sorry you are here. Please read all of cadet's links. Also:
Originally Posted by Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
As one of my try new things I was thinking about sending her the DB book as a Christmas gift saying something along the lines of only read it if you freely feel like it.
Thanks a lot for all the quick replies! I will be posting frequently and with shorter messages. I have now finished DR and I am waiting for DB while I read the 5 Love Languages. I also want to schedule telephone counseling here but with the holidays coming up and having to save to move back to Spain I was thinking about reading DB first and then asking for this.
I have a psychotherapist in Germany but he is basically only concerned about my wellbeing, which is good but not exactly what I need now.
No presents or pressure/ pursuing, understood! I need the support here because as an example last week our older S had birthday and I sent a message thanking her for arranging a birthday party and told her she is a great mom, which I genuinely think. Of course I got no answer so I have been thinking about how my 180 would look like:
- No comments or hints about OR - Being happy and the first one to end communication but always remain loving and open to R - Listening to her on every interaction like I have never done in my life - Being happy without her
I am starting my 180 yesterday but I have a big question about going dark. My problem has been I immersed myself on career and providing for a better school and house and totally neglected my marriage, it almost feels like I need to change into loving, through actions, but my W is still on fire and would not even stand me over the phone. Do you have any recommendations on this? Thanks a lot, I will read through all material today! Cant wait!
Me 29 W:29 M: 5yrs T:10yrs S:6yrs S:1 yr BD: "I want a D" 08/09/19 Sep: 10/27/19
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Me 29 W:29 M: 5yrs T:10yrs S:6 yrs S:1 yr BD: "I want a D" 08/09/19 Sep: 10/27/19
Do not give her any books that you are reading and DO NOT SHARE this site w/her. The books on DB, DR and this site are for you and you alone. Knowledge is power and right now, you need to take care of you.
I wouldn't contact your wife unless you have an emergency. She needs time and space to figure herself out. Continue to work on you and if she does something nice or unexpected for you, thank her.
This is your time to work on yourself. Change the things that you think you need to change for the better for you. You do not make the changes to try to win her back....whatever changes you make, they must become a permanent change in your life. Always remember, actions speak louder than words.
Keep the focus on you for now.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I am making my changes for me and also for my children so they have a better role model on me but of course I do not expect anything on exchange. I am just concerned I am sending the message I do not care about OR but as you very well point out is actions that must make clear I care.
I had a bit of a revelation today, I picked a second copy of DR to take it to Spain and it is used. It has all this emotional notes from the previous owner (she even highlighted the suicide threat comment on the LRT section) and I told myself I am going to be happy and a new man, no matter what happens to my marriage, so I took a bath singing!
I have one last question before tomorrow, I fly on the 6th to Spain for a month and my W knows I will be there but last time I asked to see my children and it was not my turn she acted as if she was forgiving my life and I should be grateful above all. Any ideas how to attempt a family plan without being pursuing her? would that even be a good idea? I dont think so since I have to ask you guys and it is only been 5 weeks since we separated.
Thanks as always for all the great support, you guys are really the opposite to what one expects from an online forum (I mean in a great way!)
Me 29 W:29 M: 5yrs T:10yrs S:6yrs S:1 yr BD: "I want a D" 08/09/19 Sep: 10/27/19
Last edited by Paco_L; 12/03/1908:04 PM.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Me 29 W:29 M: 5yrs T:10yrs S:6 yrs S:1 yr BD: "I want a D" 08/09/19 Sep: 10/27/19
I have been reading today the story from Joe2017 and I have to say I am really impressed how it takes one to tango can work marvels.
Reading about WAW and WW has made me want to share more information and help from more experienced DBs. As I said, I am aware I have neglected my M and my W has shared with me how it was hurting only then I closed myself and became defensive. This has gone on for long time but I believe I have done nothing to see her leave to a different country and be forced to be with my S6 and S1 every 15 days (no A, no abuse, no addictions beyond work excess). We were buying a 3 bedroom amazing flat in Germany that now she claims I manipulated her into, I was so proud of our achievement and now it feels like the life I was offering is all worthless.
These are some things I heard from W when D bomb was dropped and along those 2 months I was feeling guilty and trying to spend lots of time talking to her about OR (I know, more mistakes on my side!):
"you ruined my life and family dream" "this is all your fault, you wont touch me ever again" "I am sick of fighting for something never existed" "I want to get an agreement that makes filling for D quick and easy"
.... and worse, but also some things that gave me (maybe unfounded) hope
"don't talk about OM/OW, you are the issue and you need to change" "I do not know how my future looks" "I want to be alone, is all about my happiness" "I moved to the UK and Germany because of you" "I do not see R, you need to change, I need to like you and fall in love again, this is unlikely" "Our M was so bad I could have had an A and it would have been justified, but I did not"
... and more evidence that my W is a WAW. She offered me shared custody in the south of Spain, where we are both originally from, but she knows I cannot work on the great company I do from there. She also used the fact that I travel at work to argue I could not support shared custody. When I was feeling like a rug, guilty and worthless as a man I thought let her go to the south of Spain and figure herself out, I will find a way to move to Madrid, work from there, GAL, be my best and maybe one day we can R there. Now I am a lake of doubts, I am not sure if I am ruining my life for a person that will never look back.
Maybe I can get some help from Sandi2 or similar to understand what she might be going through and why she still seems to be on fire and hate me deeply.
In my effort to GAL and detach, I am:
- go to opera, trips and museums on my own - fresh work start in Madrid happening early 2020 hopefully - weight lifting and running - eating really healthy - planning activities with my children - learning to play piano - go out with friends - read DB/DR and other great books - new cologne, taking care of clothes and beard
I will be my best for myself and my children. Some days I am a mess, cry at home, I talk to Alexa or kiss the pillow goodnight, but I have determined myself to lean on the great people in this forum! Thank you all for your help!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Me 29 W:29 M: 5yrs T:10yrs S:6 yrs S:1 yr BD: "I want a D" 08/09/19 Sep: 10/27/19
Reading about WAW and WW has made me want to share more information and help from more experienced DBs. As I said, I am aware I have neglected my M and my W has shared with me how it was hurting only then I closed myself and became defensive. This has gone on for long time but I believe I have done nothing to see her leave to a different country and be forced to be with my S6 and S1 every 15 days (no A, no abuse, no addictions beyond work excess). We were buying a 3 bedroom amazing flat in Germany that now she claims I manipulated her into, I was so proud of our achievement and now it feels like the life I was offering is all worthless.
Men and women prioritize value and success differently. Men find worth and value in things such as a nice car, prestigious job, luxurious home, beautiful wife. Women find value in personal relationships. That's not to say women don't like nice cars and homes, but they prioritize relationships above that whereas men don't. We think that if we bring home a big paycheck, enable the family to live in a nice neighborhood and fancy home that it makes up for the fact that we're gone working a lot and neglect our relationships with our wives and children. Women will put up with this a long time, but at some point they reach the breaking point and plan their escape. If things continue to deteriorate then they eventually drop the bomb, and when they do they are DONE.
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These are some things I heard from W when D bomb was dropped and along those 2 months I was feeling guilty and trying to spend lots of time talking to her about OR (I know, more mistakes on my side!):
This is what we refer to as "rewriting of history" and WAS's do it to justify breaking up the marriage. They are deflecting all of the blame to the LBS. Typically the LBS will become a groveling mess, admitting that yes, they did all that and more, and they are sooooo sorry, and won't you just forgive me and everything will be better I promise etc. etc. Don't do this because she doesn't believe you. This is why we say you have to show through ACTIONS, because she's heard the words so many times that she doesn't believe them anymore.
And at first she will resent your actions. She'll state it's "too little too late" and "why couldn't you change while there was still a chance?" So you change for you, and for your future R with her or someone else.
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... and more evidence that my W is a WAW. She offered me shared custody in the south of Spain, where we are both originally from, but she knows I cannot work on the great company I do from there. She also used the fact that I travel at work to argue I could not support shared custody. When I was feeling like a rug, guilty and worthless as a man I thought let her go to the south of Spain and figure herself out, I will find a way to move to Madrid, work from there, GAL, be my best and maybe one day we can R there. Now I am a lake of doubts, I am not sure if I am ruining my life for a person that will never look back.
I would suggest that you not make any big life changes with the hopes of appeasing her, because it won't work. She has no respect for you right now and appeasing her will only make that worse.
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In my effort to GAL and detach, I am:
- go to opera, trips and museums on my own - fresh work start in Madrid happening early 2020 hopefully - weight lifting and running - eating really healthy - planning activities with my children - learning to play piano - go out with friends - read DB/DR and other great books - new cologne, taking care of clothes and beard
Awesome, that's a great list! Try to find some GAL activities that involve interactions with other people as well. It helps to make some new friends.
