Detachment isn't the absence of hope. When you go into a boss' office for a review, meet with a customer for a sale, or buy a lottery ticket--can you HOPE for a big outcome without DEPENDING on one?
But you are letting her cake eat right now. Words don’t let her know. Actions do.
And this is going to be tough to hear, I’m sorry..... but she could very well be happy. Sounds like she did for herself what we do when we DB. She felt she needed to work on herself and be good with herself. And she seems to be doing that. And sometimes, just like when the LBS DB’s and does all their own internal work, they find the person they became doesn’t fit with the the WAS anymore.
And I don’t say this because I don’t think there is any hope. Actually, you are more hopeful than most. But I do believe she is happy right now with who she is. She’s not codependent anymore. But you Know, when she sees your changes after after a long period of time . And I mean a very long period of time, you two might just fit back together in a very healthy relationship.
There is a poster named. crimson who posted some time ago. I think him and his wife divorced and then got back together. It was about 2 years and she was done done done, but he did the work and he proved the changes and he was steady and strong and he was kind but had boundaries and quit letting her cake eat.
There’s hope. Are you going to IC? You would probably benefit a lot more from that rather than MC
You: I understand you want a D. I want to work on the MR. But it takes two to stay married, and only one to D. I will not stand in your way.
Her: Blah blah blah.
If you have a boundary to assert, state it. Read up on boundaries if you intend to do this.
Otherwise you validate the h3ll out of her and clam up your feelings. If you can't handle things, you politely leave. I strongly advise you try to hang in there and stay as neutral as you can, within your limits.
She does not want to hear your feelings. She will recoil. Any feeling you share will be invalidated, unless it is a feeling that furthers her goal. (For instance, if you say, "I'm committed to being positive whatever happens" she will think "Great! Now I feel less guilty!") So you share nothing, until she commits to working on the MR. Leave her to deal with her own feelings.
If it helps, think of validation and active listening at this time like holding up a mirror to deflect all the cosmic death rays pointed at you.
Hey J - been reading your sit a little here and there. I'm sorry you're in such a [censored] up situation. If it helps, know that many of us are.
Boundaries are there for your protection. I stopped snooping at BD. It did me no good, just made me feel worse. (From reading your sit, I'm going to suggest that it made you feel much worse too.) Not snooping is also a concrete action that you can take. And you'll feel much better.
If she is viewing herself as single now, then you, for your own protection, need to put your walls up. I know it's not what you want, but I think it is necessary that you do that.
If R talks happen - and LBSes at your stage will inevitably do that (I did it too), find non-confrontational ways to state your boundaries if you are suddenly led there. These don't have to be monumental statements or events - just state them plainly and clearly.
For instance, when pressed, I told my W that I did not want to be with someone who did not want to be with me. It stunned her - I think she thought I would do absolutely anything to keep the MR. I also told her that she was free to leave, I was not going to beg her to stay if she wanted to leave.
The thing is, you actually have to feel that way. You can't fake statements like those. You have to mean it. And that takes time - to understand yourself and how you truly feel. That's also why vets recommend to avoid R talks as much as possible - to distance yourself, discover who you really are and how you really feel.
Only then can you speak clearly and from a place of truth and authenticity.
Thanks everyone for all your input, it helps so much to recent myself even for short moments while I've been spiralling emotionally.
Brain was doing loops all night thinking of her with this guy and the limerance they would both be in. The stop sign technique really helped and I was able to sleep for a few hours.
(Few waking night terrors about her and him but I know I can't control my dreams, and that they will lessen)
She came downstairs this morning, I'd got the kids sorted as she was really ill with flu. I asked how she was feeling
She replied, really rotten, I'll be ok but let's not have talks today, Me: I'm sorry you're feeling rotten, completely agree about no more r talks. Let's just get on with the day. 2 mins pass Her: the talks are too much, its as if you think I'm just happy and not grieving as well. It's been really difficult for me to. I feel you want me to say I love you or make things better. Or that you want to see I'm hurting. I'm really struggling too. It's not fair and feels selfish the same as you were during MR. I validated each of her points then wound up the conversation to get the kids to school.
Just getting on with the day and work now together but no talks
Asking her how she’s feeling is the right thing to do. I’m more concerned about how much time you spend together. You’re never going to be able to detach and she’s never going to learn to miss you.
The contact is hard, the situation we just went through with kids was a nesscessity.
We stuck together on the important things, ie: kids wellbeing but being around each other pretty much 24/7 for a week was emotionally difficult for both of us, and made db'ing tough.
Too many opportunities to talk about the r, our childhood situations, our mental health. All been too much and at the same time I love her being close in my life.
Now this week with work Christmas rush, kids Christmas commitments, injured pet etc we are in the same boat.
She started yet another talk about an hour ago, about finding happiness and self love within, that it took her years for it to be not just words, and finally connect with herself,
That we couldn't keep looking at our childhoods as excuses. I validated but kept things very brief and said the solutions aren't in the past.
Or look for validation outside ourselves, she then said break ups are easier without kids involved, that usually somebody would just go and sleep with someone else, that's what you should do.
I kinda looked at her in her eyes She then backchecked and said but that wouldn't be healing , it would just be a distraction.
Me: I agree
She went on to say she can't help me, that she only has enough for her and the kids. I'm just listening at this point.
Then she raises that since the incident with d6 and the realization that she hasn't finished working on her childhood trauma she has changed track on where she was with everything compared to where she was while we were fighting about parenting plan etc Just over a week ago
I closed off the conversation pleasantly enough and we got back to work.
I'm taking her words as meaning she is hopefuly refocused on the kids and her healing compared to partying and finding someone else. But who knows what's going on in her head.
Will listen and validate when I have to,
Maintain as much of a Pma as possible until Christmas is over, then takes things day at a time with more focus on myself
Rest of the day went pretty smoothly, Quieter than usual, less chat, focus on work and kids.
Came to the realization regarding my emotional immaturity through all of this and probably throughout MR. Time to start considering every action and thought through the lens of what would an emotionally mature and intelligent man do.
May have to fake it to start with, but feel it would help regain elements of trust and respect. Because to be honest while it's been a healthier situation for the kids I've been guilty of maybe a little too much kindness and emotional reactivity to her , whenever I'm around her. Classic NGS.
Family therapy tomorrow, not sure what it will bring up. Pretty sure my role should be to just validate.
If she goes off about me not moving on or how I seem to not respect her wishes and just want her back Not really sure how to respond.
One of those situations when the counsellor may push for how I feel rather than just validating.
