Cross countries separation EU

[BenB]

Paco, I know during weekends and probably now during holiday season you might not get as many replies as usual. And I´m no vet but I can tell you this -

Do NOT send her that present and do not try to remind her of your past together. That will not have any positive effect!

I had all the same thoughts as you many months ago. My W and I had been together for close to 9 years but only married for 7 months before she "changed". Our wedding day was August 4, 2018. I have never seen so many people cry and during our first dance, I had a very well known pianist play the Piano guys version of Ed Sheeran´s "Perfect". We spent 3 months practicing our dance and when we were finished, everyone erupted in applause and I saw so many crying. Including my W and I.

I could not believe she had forgotten about this magical moment and wanted to remind her. We still hadn´t seen any of the videos from the wedding as I had to download close to 300Gb and needed a new hard drive for that so one day I went and bought one, downloaded it and edited the video of our dance, crying my eyes out while watching it. But then I found this forum and started to get a better understanding of why she is doing what she is doing and decided not to give that to her. One day when I felt weak and badly missed her affection and love, I told her "hey so you know, I have all our videos now from the wedding now, edited and all". Her response was just "mhm". She didn´t care. I´m so glad that´s all I said. I would have regretted it so much if I had given it to her as a gift.

All it would have done is remind her how she no longer feels that way and on top of that she would have felt pressure which is the last thing you want her to feel now.

Regarding people around you saying she seems happy, that is completely normal at this point. Often prior to BD they feel something is wrong and that builds until they finally drop the bomb. It´s the same way many break ups work. They can fear having to do that, the confrontation of it but after it´s done, it´s this sense of freedom they feel. Like the hard part is over, now it´s good times ahead and smooth sailing from now on(they think).

What was most painful for me during this time was that I would wake up every morning thinking for a short moment that everything is normal and then I´m reminded that I´m living my worst nightmare, I´m losing the love of my life, my sweetheart. I would get up to get ready to work out since that was all that reduced my anxiety slightly and I felt like I was living in a horror movie. As I walked out of the bedroom, I would hear my W singing in the shower with songs playing from the portable speaker. Here I was living in this nightmare horror movie and my W was happier than ever.

Your family and friends say that because they are emotionally detached from the situation. They look at you and see a great guy who is making an effort and has love for his family and feel you deserve better. I tell my family very little about my situation with my STBXW but I can still tell they have completely changed their opinion on her. They know me and know all I have done for her and probably think "who does she think she is letting go of Ben who´s done everything for her". If only they knew all the things she´s actually done... If you had a friend who was going through the same as you and his W treated him the way your W treats you, what would you recommend him to do?

Paco, be the best man you can be and it sounds like you are on your way. Just like you I worked out and studied what to eat. When my nightmare began in February I weighed over 94kg(207lbs) and my body fat was 30.6%. Last month I was down to 67kg(147lbs) and 9.2% body fat. I have read so many books and pages on this forum, I have learned to calm my own anxiety, to quiet my mind, I have learned not to need anyone elses validation to feel better. It´s a journey but would I trade all this new knowledge and state of mind I´m in to have my wife back? Absolutely not! Maybe one day I´ll meet her again but my focus is now on me. She has her journey, I have mine. Paco, this, what is happening to you, it is a blessing in disguise if you learn to see it that way. You have been given the gift of time. Use it wisely.

[job]

Paco,

Do not attempt to remind her of what she had and has lost. Right now, she is living in her present and has blocked most of the good things from the past w/you and your family.

I wouldn't send her a meaningful gift. If you get anything, make it impersonal and from the children. Right now, she is in a dark place and nothing is bright and airy for her when it comes to you and the relationship.

Oh, those words about you haven't changed or nothing has changed...they are the words of someone who is looking for something to make them feel better. They don't have a clue as to why they feel the way they do, but they think that if everyone and everything would change, she would feel better. That is a bunch of BS. She is definitely looking for something to make her feel better about herself and her little world. Unfortunately, she doesn't realize that the only way to make herself happy is to look within. Exterior things will only bring you joy for a bit and then...poof! Then you look for something else.

Only communicate with her about the children and Christmas visitation. Leave the relationship talks alone. The more you attempt to show her what she had and what life can be at the moment, the more she's going to pull away. Keep the focus on you and your children. Leave her be. Always remember, actions speak louder than words. Show her that you can move forward and have a fulfilling life w/o her. Show her the man you were when you met.

Dig deeper for patience and just leave her be.

[ovrrnbw]

Don't send that present. If you don't understand why then you have a lot of reading and work to do. Go read R2Cs links on attraction and seduction. Read about PUAs and learn from them. Yes you'll have to google that.

The psychological games is that she is feeling hurt by you and all these things from over the years and now that she has decided to leave you you are finally giving her the full court press. It's too late. So it p!sses her the h3ll off. And so does the fact that she told you she doesn't want you and you can't hear her or take her seriously.

As for the positive way to interact with her there is tons of info on this site, you need to do the reading in the welcome post and read it often so that you can absorb it. You detach, act polite but not overly pleasant, stick to business, be brief and succinct, and be the one to end the conversation first.

[FlySolo]

I do not want to put any pressure on her but I still feel like my life cannot go on forever like this, I look at the little one smiling and I think "how can this not be a reason to fight? I will change all I have to and keep the confidence but I will reunite my family"

Let's start here. She did not leave your little ones. She left you. I know that's hard to take but it is her truth. In her head, she still has her family. It just does not include you. Understand she did not do this to hurt your children, or even to hurt you, she did it because she thought the family unit was better spit into two. Do not hate her for this. In her head she is doing what is right.

... my W is still ignoring me even if I try and tell her about the little one being sick

She is not ignoring you. She is listening. I sometimes do this when my H speaks to me. I cannot look at him the emotions raging inside me are so overwhelming and I do not know what will come out of my mouth. Your W is listening. She just can't look at you and she cannot bring herself to engage because she is scared it will lead to an R talk and she does not want that. It is enough that you told her your little one is sick. Trust me, she heard you.

I talked to the lawyer about changing the separation agreement and I hope I can sit down with her before that all happens. It would feel cold but I already asked her to split children from our R/D.

No - do not talk to her about it. My guess is you want to scare her into coming back. It won't work. It will weaken your resolve, play into your nice guy tendencies and ultimately put you back where you are now - with limited access to your children. Just send it. When it comes to access to children, particularly when the other party is hostile, business like and cordial is better.

Others have said it, but I will reiterate. Do not send the present. Give her a card but don't let it be sentimental. Make it a card you would send to a colleague. "W, hope you have a merry christmas and a happy new year. From Paco"

The other day on the phone she was asking me not to mention anything about us and she shouted to me that it was incredible how I had destroyed our marriage during 5 years and that I have not changed a little bit ... if I write to her something sincere and loving she will tell me that I am playing psychological games on her, what does she mean by that

This is known as rewriting history. They all do this. When my H was leaving he cherry picked all the bad memories and when I tried to counter with good memories, be turned those into bad ones too. Our getting together in the first place, our engagement, our wedding day, even the births of our children. A few months after he moved out, I asked him (on one of the last R talks we had) how he could do that. How he could destroy our past. He said none of what he said was true, that he regretted nothing about our M. He said I was so demanding of a reason and he had none - so he looked for reasons. Your W is looking at the world from a negative place. She has to justify why she left. They have to be harsh because if they give in even an inch, then that whisper in their heads - 'you are doing the wrong thing' - might become a shout. I know this doesn't make you feel any better, it is soul destroying hearing someone tell you you are the cause of all their misery. But maybe if you understand why, it might make it a little easier.

Nothing u do right now will bring your W back. Focus on yourself and your children.

[Pack_19]

hi all,

wow thanks a lot! I have to say you guys always bring the nice reality slap, I do need it. One thinks he has understood the let her go mindset and what talking business means and yet I find myself thinking about her as of my W, the loving one I took for granted.

She has all reasons to be cold, she told me many times we were going down as a couple (on occasions too aggressively) but she did it, and I ignored her thinking how can she say that, we will get much better in the future. She must be feeling like I am the biggest jerk on earth, as in we separate and now you want to give me the full show. I know it is too late, but between fear and faith, I have chosen to believe.

I want to thank you all for your help and encouraging words. I will archive all photos, no matter how much it hurts, make a life for my children and me and come here anytime I want to ask her out or I feel like sending a loving message. I want to be that man again, how can I have gone from a confident, cheerful and fun person to a clinging sucker? I am sure I love her when even remembering the dreadful things she has said to me, I still think she is worth my marital purgatory this feels like, I want to grow old with her and I want to give her a whole different relationship.

When I talked about the little one I only meant I feel like he deserves to have mom and dad together and learn from them what it is to have a loving relationship. I am going to drop here the biggest question in my mind right now?

W is living in Seville now, where my family is also located. I have the option to be in Seville or Madrid for work due to frequent travel being the key. Without thinking about her now, in the future, say I managed to DB my situation, would it help to be in the same city? What is the experience with people who have successfully saved their M when relocation is in between?

I spend a lot of time on thinking about new 180s, how can I surprise her? my big one is NO MORE R TALKS. How on earth it is so hard? I am supposed to be a clever man and yet I feel like a child with an addiction. Other two big ones are VALIDATION and ACTIVE LISTENING. I am working on those along with myself. As I said, exercise, good food, piano, culture, my passion for cars and my children.

Thank you all, this forum is a peace island in the middle of the worst nightmare I have ever experienced!

[Pack_19]

Hi all,

I had a bad interaction today, let me explain.

3 out of 4 weekends I have had my children in Spain one of them or both this time are sick. I know my W spends a lot of time dinning and similar outside because you know life in the south of Spain. Anyway the other day I sent her a message telling her next time to let me know when they are sick specially if they throw up twice or more overnight. I told her that I would be caring not only for how I parent but also how she performs as mother. I also told her is the last time there is a party at school, I am in town, and she sends her parents and does not even let me know.

So today as I gave my W the kids back she told me to never email her anything like that, that she knows my family puts pressure on me by attacking her (this is true btw) and that if I am going to be consistent to be on either that or loving her and telling her I failed. I started validating her feelings calmly and her answer was I was agreeing with her as you would agree with a mentally ill person. In a matter of minutes she was again on anger, she told me I had broken this family, I was the only one to deserve dirt on top and she only had left behind a person she does not love anymore and that is nothing to be criticized. She went on to say we will never ever argue again like this in front of the children or her new neighbors so she asked me to only talk about the kids. Specifically she said, "in the days coming now I will have them do not TM me or call, I only want to speak about the kids, I am making an effort to see you because I cannot even stand seeing your face"

I stood calm, I told her "I know I have made many mistakes and I know I was not the man you deserve. I am firm in reconciliation and the pursue of a satisfactory family life with you, that is what you will see". Today she looked fantastic, so did I but she really got me there. As always, she euphorically salutes our children and wouldn't even look me at the face. After the conversation/argument she left in anger and I told her she looked beautiful and I loved her while looking at her in the eyes.

Tomorrow is Christmas eve, my life is a mix of an emotional turmoil and failure feeling. My wife literally hates me and keeps blaming me for breaking my family and our MR. The woman that once was my safety and happiness shelter now shoots at me the most hurting words I have ever heard. I know, do not believe anything they say, but after they say it 10 times it is hard to remain a rock.

My question today is brief and sad, should I call her tomorrow to wish her Merry Christmas?

[job]

If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't call her. I would step back, give her lots of time and space to mull things over. She can't miss you if you are calling her. Let her wonder what you are doing for the day. If she contacts you, then wait a while before responding. Don't be hasty in calling/texting her. Give her the space she craves. Until she comes to realize that you are not her whipping boy, she'll continue to spew at you.

[Pack_19]

Hi all,

I must be one of those stubborn DBers that takes long to learn. I keep getting great advice from all of you and making the same mistakes. Yesterday around 23:45 i sent W a message reading "Merry Christmas W, I hope you three are having a great time". I woke up today without a single reply.

I know its been only two months but clearly reminding her of how much I love her does not work. I need a new strategy. I will also take my MR as dead, act as if I am moving on, and be distantly loving with W (no PM or any communication).

I am leaving my R in the hands of god, your advice guys and the long run future. The GAL and LRT ideas are helping me a lot but I was confident I could offer her something different. This is not on my hands and the pressure to change so many things simultaneously is killing me. What happened yesterday was one of those handless slaps that get you to your heart. I will leave her alone, even if it is the last thing I do for her and I end up losing her.

Thanks a lot, you are my strongest support!

[sandi2]

If I write to her something sincere and loving she will tell me that I am playing psychological games on her, what does she mean by that?

She knows you better than anyone else. When you try various methods to get a desired reaction from her, then she may feel you are manipulating her.

I told her that I would be caring not only for how I parent but also how she performs as mother.

She is already on guard against everything you say and do. She doesn't trust you. I suggest you not make reference about how she performs as a mother.

So today as I gave my W the kids back she told me to never email her anything like that, that she knows my family puts pressure on me by attacking her (this is true btw) and that if I am going to be consistent to be on either that or loving her and telling her I failed. I started validating her feelings calmly and her answer was I was agreeing with her as you would agree with a mentally ill person. In a matter of minutes she was again on anger, she told me I had broken this family, I was the only one to deserve dirt on top and she only had left behind a person she does not love anymore and that is nothing to be criticized. She went on to say we will never ever argue again like this in front of the children or her new neighbors so she asked me to only talk about the kids. Specifically she said, "in the days coming now I will have them do not TM me or call, I only want to speak about the kids, I am making an effort to see you because I cannot even stand seeing your face"

I stood calm, I told her "I know I have made many mistakes and I know I was not the man you deserve. I am firm in reconciliation and the pursue of a satisfactory family life with you, that is what you will see". Today she looked fantastic, so did I but she really got me there. As always, she euphorically salutes our children and wouldn't even look me at the face. After the conversation/argument she left in anger and I told her she looked beautiful and I loved her while looking at her in the eyes.

Do you understand why she was so angry? Stop telling her all that stuff about pursuing a life with her. Stop talking about your mistakes and that you weren't the man she deserved. Stop telling her how she parent the kids. Stop telling her she looks beautiful and that you love her (especially, when she is storming off after an argument). She does not want to hear it, and she gets angrier when you continue this line of conversation. It is pursuit. This doesn't work, so stop doing it.

Your job is to change yourself. It's not your job to change her. You have to stop pressing her. You have to stop talking to her as if she is still your loving W. In other words, don't talk to her about personal things, feelings, love, MR, etc. Communicate politely about the children. Respect her wishes and don't text message. Don't discuss matters in front of the kids.

She wants more space. Do you understand what that means? She doesn't want to hear from you, nor see your face. Maybe in time, she will stop being so angry.

[Pack_19]

hi Sandi,

Merry Christmas!

Thanks a lot for the reply. I cannot begin to thank you again for visiting my thread. I will follow your advice and report after some time has gone by.

I need to stop seeing her as my W and also cut my pursuing behavior. This is the hardest thing I have ever done, but I have nothing more important to do.

Thanks again Sandi