Feeling kinda strange lately, probably a mix of the holidays and what's coming next.
My W's recent comments about my safety as a parent (again) felt like the last straw. They happened a week ago, yet I remain feeling the same... a calm anger. I can't even imagine what 2020 may bring once we start proceeding with the D. Emotionally it is going to take me a long time to recover from this experience. I feel betrayed, I feel like I am incapable of trusting another person and may never reach that place again.
I am guilty of mind-reading my W, which I learned early on in my situation to stop doing. But I'm back at it a bit. I'm seeking to understand.
When things went south with my mom several years ago, I sought understanding. I wanted to understand why she was so toxic in so many relationships (not just mine, but everyone near her). I feel like I have a good understanding of her issues now, which has helped me develop empathy for her. There is a consistency to her actions and behaviors. They are unhealthy, but they make sense.
In my W's case, I just don't understand. I'll never understand. It is hard for me to empathize without that understanding. I do empathize with the fact I could have been a better H. But I don't empathize with her victim narrative.
If I understood, maybe I would have some empathy today, maybe I wouldn't feel like I am left with no choice at this point. But I have nothing left.
The only thing that makes sense to me is an analogy I used to make when I first came here. I felt like our MR was Earth, and my W was building a rocket to launch into orbit, and she needed as much anger and resentment as she could gather as fuel. It didn't matter where it came from, she just needed it. I thought, "If I just weather this storm, things will eventually get better, she will see that I have changed." None of that happened.
Up until 2 weeks ago, I would have said, "I want to try mediation. I want to stop being conflict-avoidant. I want to handle this maturely, stand up for myself, and negotiate a fair and respectful deal for all of us."
Today, I think, "Mediation cannot work with someone who demeans me as a parent, and thinks I should go to counseling due to safety concerns. I need a lawyer. I also need to stop going to MC2, as it is merely a forum for my W to perpetuate her narrative in front of someone who validates it, and I am no longer interested in participating when there has been zero effort to work on the MR."
I don't know why all of a sudden I am done. But I am. It feels anti-DB and pro-DB all at the same time. It's a weird feeling.
I think what gets lost sometimes is that our spouses know us better then anyone in the world. Couple that with probably years of seeking an exit strategy they become mastermind manipulators and I am sorry to say your wife may be the queen of them.
She got you to move out, tricked you into thinking you were attending MC, used a couple bad moments to paint you as a child abuser and refuses to seek employment. Then every time you start to stand up for yourself she throws you a little bone like the Christmas gift and crocodile tears to try to real you back in.
I know it’s hard to see probably from where you’re sitting but you are going to be financially ruined if you keep this up. War is lurking in the future. Do you want to sit back and see your men slowly picked off one by one or do you want to get the tactical advantage and go in guns a blazing?
The only thing that makes sense to me is an analogy I used to make when I first came here. I felt like our MR was Earth, and my W was building a rocket to launch into orbit, and she needed as much anger and resentment as she could gather as fuel. It didn't matter where it came from, she just needed it. I thought, "If I just weather this storm, things will eventually get better, she will see that I have changed." None of that happened.
This is a good analogy which fits many of our sitch's. Thank you for sharing it. I think what is missing is the realisation that the anger and resentment you talk of didn't suddenly come out of no-where to fuel her escape. It was silently harboured over a number of years and only gained a voice in the months leading up to BD. By the time it came out it, it had lived inside her for so long it had taken on a different form, one divorced from reality. Not taking the garbage out once too often became a sign of your innate selfishness, not getting her the gift she hinted at became you never listening to her. In her head, each single event becomes symbolic of a universal trait.
In the months after BD, any attempt at change will be seen as 'too little too late' or an attempt to manipulate her into coming back. Her mind is caught in a negative spiral, one where everything you do is wrong. Take the garbage out = too little too late; buy her a nice gift = trying to win her back. The only thing that may work is consistency and space. And with that, the key word is 'may'.
Don't give up on mediation - this is to help you. I know the phrase may be overused, but working on you really is the only way through this. Learning to navigate the ebbs and flows so the slings and arrows she throws do not cause you to go into an emotional spiral will help you in the long run, with or without an R. It will help you separate an emotional response (b***ch) from a rational one (identifying actions which demonstrate you are not a bad parent).
The truest thing anyone has ever said to me is MC only works if both parties are working towards the same goal, i.e. R. Next MC session I would ask your W (clearly and without any blame) what she wants to get out of it. What is her goal?. If it is not R, then (right now) there is no point. If you still feel that the M is worth saving, then say so, but don't sit there and take her sh!t unless she is doing it so that you can build a better M.
Oh, and get a lawyer. LH is right, you need to protect yourself.
W came to pick up the kids today, headed to see her family in her hometown. There are some health issues going on with her family.
W: Have you looked at any mediators?
Me: I did, last month, but you didn't want to use any of them.
W: I thought about asking MC2 about a different set of mediators. But you said you don't want to go back to MC2. Can I ask why?
Me: (after a pause) Because I'm not interested in continuing this child safety c***. I thought we were going to MC2 to work on the MR. But it never happened.
W: Can we go for at least one session to work out our schedule with the kids? We have nothing after the next 2 weeks [because she has not counter-proposed to my proposal].
Me: (no response)
W: (starts crying) The last few days have been really hard. Sorry I've been avoiding talking with you.
Me: I understand, it's hard, it's the holidays.
The tears came as soon as I stood up for myself.
Originally Posted by LH19
U,
I think what gets lost sometimes is that our spouses know us better then anyone in the world. Couple that with probably years of seeking an exit strategy they become mastermind manipulators and I am sorry to say your wife may be the queen of them.
She got you to move out, tricked you into thinking you were attending MC, used a couple bad moments to paint you as a child abuser and refuses to seek employment. Then every time you start to stand up for yourself she throws you a little bone like the Christmas gift and crocodile tears to try to real you back in.
I know it’s hard to see probably from where you’re sitting but you are going to be financially ruined if you keep this up. War is lurking in the future. Do you want to sit back and see your men slowly picked off one by one or do you want to get the tactical advantage and go in guns a blazing?
LH ~ I've always appreciated your concise honesty. You have a way of drilling straight to the truth. The tears came back today and I felt nothing. Just calm. I'm ready to get this moving.
Originally Posted by FlySolo
Don't give up on mediation - this is to help you. I know the phrase may be overused, but working on you really is the only way through this. Learning to navigate the ebbs and flows so the slings and arrows she throws do not cause you to go into an emotional spiral will help you in the long run, with or without an R. It will help you separate an emotional response (b***ch) from a rational one (identifying actions which demonstrate you are not a bad parent).
The truest thing anyone has ever said to me is MC only works if both parties are working towards the same goal, i.e. R. Next MC session I would ask your W (clearly and without any blame) what she wants to get out of it. What is her goal?. If it is not R, then (right now) there is no point. If you still feel that the M is worth saving, then say so, but don't sit there and take her sh!t unless she is doing it so that you can build a better M.
Oh, and get a lawyer. LH is right, you need to protect yourself.
I'm absolutely getting a L. Waiting to hear back as a matter of fact.
She has no intent of R'ing in MC. So I'm stopping it. I think her goal is managing a long separation while the kids are young so she can avoid going back to work as long as possible. She has never actually stated a goal. But it's clearly not to work on the MR.
I still have my emotional reactions to the slings and arrows, but I feel more clarity now.
Good for you - standing up for yourself, U. Backing off and letting her deal with her own issues is beginning to show it's effectiveness.
Originally Posted by unchien
She has no intent of R'ing in MC. So I'm stopping it.
Good. Very glad to hear. You will feel much better. Less chances for BDs while she is going through this. You need to remove yourself as a "reason for all her problems", regardless of any outcome. The best way to do that is time and space.
Originally Posted by unchien
I think her goal is managing a long separation while the kids are young so she can avoid going back to work as long as possible. She has never actually stated a goal. But it's clearly not to work on the MR.
Be careful mind-reading, here - it could be anything. Step out of "the why", you stop going because you don't want to go with someone who won't work on the MR. You have a boundary here, and you set it.
I think her goal is managing a long separation while the kids are young so she can avoid going back to work as long as possible. She has never actually stated a goal. But it's clearly not to work on the MR.
Be careful mind-reading, here - it could be anything. Step out of "the why", you stop going because you don't want to go with someone who won't work on the MR. You have a boundary here, and you set it.
Guilty as charged on the mind-reading.
I think it's okay to periodically mind-read as long as it's a shallow dive and not one where I spend a lot of energy or time on it. And also as long as I don't assume I've arrived at "the answer" - which was my mistake above.
The fact is, it is absolutely to her benefit to drag this out, and it is to my benefit to make this as short as possible. The reasons don't matter, but the incentives to each of us are clear.
I went back and read a lot of your thread U. You should too. You haven't progressed much in 6 months. You are back in forth on a lot of big issues. You moved out and you don't see your kids much, yet you are constantly communicating with your W. You are psychoanalyzing everything. You are wordy with her, you are watching her actions, and I think in your own mind you aren't clear on what you want or need from this life. You still focus and discuss MC and working on the marriage.
You probably can't heal and move on with the two of you constantly battling over everything. I think you need to focus on DB fundamentals.
Can you change the communication to business only? It doesn't seem like you guys talk business much.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
I was reading your post on IW's thread about purpose, and I wanted to gently push back on that. Can you take a "purpose" like being a family man, and break it down? What does it really mean to you, beyond what you see from the outside?
I feel like "family man" is an idea that is made up of a number of different values, and many of them you already live out every day-- being a good dad, being there for people you care about and care about you (including folks on this forum!), etc etc. Those are important values and you can honor them in your life -- build purpose-- without fitting the exterior mold of a "family man."
Just a thought. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the importance of purpose.
M.
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
I think her goal is managing a long separation while the kids are young so she can avoid going back to work as long as possible. She has never actually stated a goal. But it's clearly not to work on the MR.
Be careful mind-reading, here - it could be anything. Step out of "the why", you stop going because you don't want to go with someone who won't work on the MR. You have a boundary here, and you set it.
Guilty as charged on the mind-reading.
I think it's okay to periodically mind-read as long as it's a shallow dive and not one where I spend a lot of energy or time on it. And also as long as I don't assume I've arrived at "the answer" - which was my mistake above.
I think trying to mind-read is only going to cause you more pain. If you are okay with that then that is your choice. But for my own sanity I had to stop.
You asked me once how I was able to be so patient. The biggest 180 I could have done - I stepped one hundred percent completely out of my W's mind. I had to. After much reading, and following the advice of very wise posters here like AS, LH, LB, Neffer, and reading the wise words of vets like sandi2 and AmyC, I completely surrendered to the unknown. I have zero idea what she is thinking.
Originally Posted by unchien
The fact is, it is absolutely to her benefit to drag this out, and it is to my benefit to make this as short as possible. The reasons don't matter, but the incentives to each of us are clear.
U - I'm really not trying to be mean, here - but flip the perspective for a second. Do you really think there will be any benefit to an unemployed woman with 3 young kids who has suddenly decided to abandon her husband and lost their house? Does that sound like the decision of someone who is thinking logically?
Yes you are hurt, yes you are angry, yes you feel burnt. We all feel that way too. But you are the one who understands exactly what his situation is and understands the logistics of how to deal with it. You're a smart guy and you're not in crisis. I would suspect your W has not even begun to feel the sting of her decisions.
The fact is, it is absolutely to her benefit to drag this out, and it is to my benefit to make this as short as possible. The reasons don't matter, but the incentives to each of us are clear.
U - I'm really not trying to be mean, here - but flip the perspective for a second. Do you really think there will be any benefit to an unemployed woman with 3 young kids who has suddenly decided to abandon her husband and lost their house? Does that sound like the decision of someone who is thinking logically?
Yes you are hurt, yes you are angry, yes you feel burnt. We all feel that way too. But you are the one who understands exactly what his situation is and understands the logistics of how to deal with it. You're a smart guy and you're not in crisis. I would suspect your W has not even begun to feel the sting of her decisions.
Just something to keep in mind.
Stay strong, buddy
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IW. It would be of complete benefit to Uni's STBXW to be unemployed with 3 kids and a mortgage, with an abuse narrative, and things such as CS and Alimony. Especially when Uni is already still paying for all of it. Its probably cheaper for him to D, divide assets, either sell home, or be bought out, and have STBXW take on some real accountability and responsibility to secure home either by purchase individually or rent, find gainful employment (which alimony may give her an extend time to do so if she doesnt.) She's thinking plenty logically alright in dollars and cents.
