I just needed to find a place to vent. I am so frustrated and angry. From the last BD, which was probably the fifth one in the last 4 years, things have gotten better. She is no longer making a move to separate. There is plenty of peace in the home. We are nice to one another. When I leave for work in the morning she gives me a quick hug and kiss goodbye. When we go to sleep at night she gives me a kiss good night and she says "I love you."
But there is no intimacy beyond that and its been that way for 4 months. Prior to the BD its not like there was a lot of intimacy either, there really hasn't been much in 4 years (surprise!) since she had an emotional (as far as I know that's all it was) affair.
Oh boy. Well that's a tough spot to be sure, once your M ends up in a sexless state is it VERY difficult to reestablish sex. Has this been discussed in MC? If so, what is her explanation? If not, why has it not been brought up?
Now the following is getting into conjecture so take it with a grain of salt. If I had to guess, I'd say she went wayward back when she had the EA, and that she is still a WW. A key component in a W going WW is that they have lost respect for their H. Once the respect is gone, so is the sex appeal and even if she has sex with you it's likely to be purely for physical reasons. Now if she is WW, then you've got a difficult road ahead. Either you live with things as-is or you make some tough choices. If you live with things as-is things may never change. I've seen situations where a WW continued in a sexless marriage for YEARS simply because it was convenient and because she didn't want to upset the kids. So if that's not acceptable, then here come the tough choices. You take the stance that since she fired you as H, you're no longer going to play family with her. No hanging out together as a family, no doing her favors, no "ILY", no nighty night kisses on the cheek, no vacations together, etc. You treat it as an IHS and go as dark as possible on her.
If she is WW then she has got to learn to miss you, and start seeing you as a strong, independent, healthy, virile man before the respect will start coming back. You don't do this by doubling down on housework and chores. You do it by working on yourself and leaving her alone. Get in shape (or in better shape). Improve your wardrobe. Start wearing cologne. Keep yourself well groomed. Get a tan. Buy some nice shoes. Start going out more with friends. Get out and GAL.
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I'm angry though. And I'm kind of sick of putting my life on hold.
Then don't. Make a life for yourself without her. THAT is the very thing that might attract her back.
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I'm also so worried about my kids. I really think a divorce would destroy the foundation of their lives.
It is certainly not optimal, but they will make it through. Many have before them, and many will after them.
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I've done it all.
And it didn't work. So do the opposite. Work on the M by letting go of it and her.
No I agree with your last post. It’s tough because you and I had different experiences so we tend to post our experience s. I just know emotional immaturity is bs. 90% of marriages can be fixed with both people on board. That’s the frustrating part.
Yep, and the one experience we do share is that we both had Ws that weren't on board, though mine eventually got on board. It is very frustrating.
I try to be positive and optimistic. That if 1 spouse makes improvements that the other will response positively. Obviously that is not the way it always works though.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
First, I’m working through the Art of Seduction which was recommended via audio book. I’m through section one and its interesting. I think my biggest take away so far is to have fun, play more, worry less. I did pick up The Solo Partner by Phil Deluca but I am having a hard time getting through it because I don’t have time to read it during the day and its not something I want to be reading at home. Its good though and I like the tips so far on interrupting the reactivity cycle.
CanBird: You might think you want what I have, and maybe that’s true. But try on a spouse that years ago was consistently ripping your company you are putting in long hour to get it started. Then she has an emotional affair that all her friends and family call her on that she refuses to cut off and once she does she still sneaks around. Then once it actually ends you spend the next 3 years being told consistently what you have done wrong, so you work on yourself and work to change and when you think everything is going well you stumble and she immediately goes back to divorce. Any time I make a mistake, she has threatened me. We do have date nights – never in our relationship has she planned one. Every year I buy tickets to a theater series which creates a nice pattern for monthly dates from September through March and then I try to find something else in between those dates for us to go do, but I’ve been toying with not planning more to give her space. We haven’t had a date since just before the Holidays and I don’t have anything scheduled until 2/15 at this time.
LH19: I agree with some form of immaturity as my values are that if you make a commitment to family and a spouse and get married, you work through it and you keep it. But that is just my view of the world and not everyone’s. I’m not sure that she will ever leave which, based on my belief on marriage, puts me in a real pickle. I have to find a way, as someone else mentioned, to be happy without her while being with her. For better or worse, these leads me to detach more and I really don’t want any physical contact with her unless she changes her mind and decides to commit. But I think that would be drastic if I cut off the last remaining touches.
Steve 85: I have not read No Mr. Nice Guy and they don’t have it at the library so I’ll have to think on that since I’m in the Solo Partner right now and don’t have time to read that one, though it does sound very interesting and might play well with some of the ideas from The Art of Seduction. Thanks for the perspective on the passive aggressive, I guess that is what that is and I don’t want to behave that way so I’ll let that go. In terms of GAL, its just very challenging with 2 kids and considering all my friends do things in couples. Its just frustrating – but I’ll continue to think through this. I have not read the Sex Starved Marriage, and they do have that at the library, so that is strong. At least I won’t have to buy it. I have read the five love languages and I have been living that to a T for a long time with little result in my opinion. She also read it and knows that Physical Touch is my language and puts forth Zero effort – which I guess is to be expected, though that doesn’t make it right. Love the sex story. I get your message. But that has to be spontaneous, the air in the room has to be right, its not a recommendation but a story of how sometimes things can happen.
Man, there is some great stuff here. LH19: Agreed, I could call this thing and move on. Reality is I’d be fine but family and commitment mean a lot to me. I totally agree with you. I never quit – I’m not sure I can. She’ll have to call it, I think the impact on my kids and their kids is significant. I think divorce ripples. If I can just stay in it, work on myself maybe she comes around. If she doesn’t I hope she calls it. If that doesn’t happen, well, I guess I focus on a higher calling. My faith does not condone divorce and so that also keeps me in it, that’s just my values and beliefs.
Ready 2 Change: That’s an awesome drop in. I freaking agree. We used to have a lot of fun, then with the EA and how public it was most of our social relationships got disturbed. Throw in the kids, which I coach in most sports, and I am boring. I have a lot of interests, but I don’t have the time to chase them down. I’ve got a standing invite to take up bow hunting, I like fishing, poker, skiing and working out. I like the theater, I like to read, I like current events, I enjoy MLB, college sports, etc. I’m involved in the kids lives. When I say I don’t drink I mean I stop at a beer or two each night and generally at two martinis or a bottle of wine. I like jazz, I like jazz clubs. I love to compete and I’m up for anything anytime. I’ve got lots of things I’m in to, but I feel like my wife isn’t interested in much of it so I pull her along or do it alone. Fortunately, as the kids are getting older I can take them. Crummy winter so skiing has been light.
I have read the five love languages and I have been living that to a T for a long time with little result in my opinion. She also read it and knows that Physical Touch is my language and puts forth Zero effort – which I guess is to be expected, though that doesn’t make it right.
Scott, the more you share the more your sitch sounds so much like mine! Same here. Our MC had us both read it and do the assessment. Mine: Physical Touch. Hers: Words of affirmation.
I was looking for subtle ways to give her words of affirmation. She did nothing to try to fill my love tank with physical touch. None.
One complicating factor in my marriage that I had to get used to is her medications. She is on two antidepressants and it has really changed how she emotes. She is much more closed off emotionally than she was prior. Even now I have to initiate most physical touch, but reading NMMNG taught me to be the alpha, the lead on that, and when I need to go get it. Rather than secretly expect her to know when my need is there and wait for her to act.
I would not give up on the touching just yet. I believe that in our situations touch charges can work to warm up the obstinate wife. Just be subtle, don't over use them, and be consistent and patient with it.
I'd also suggest you look up talk charges. One of the things my Nice Guy tendencies has me do passive-aggressively was to cut her off verbally. She wasn't the first person I called or contacted about good news. Or when I needed to share some news that required support. That was a BAD dynamic in my relationship that I fixed in my self-improvement activities during my sitch. Talk charges were a huge part of those.
If she moves back to being more of a WAS, I would be careful with all of this advice. And other LBSs reading this should not think that things like touch and talk charges can work in their sitches when a spouse is full-on walkaway.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Mario: I love this take too. But get this one, this created a major issue for us. It was 3 years ago, we hadn’t had sex in two weeks and she was getting ready to go out of town. So we’re in bed and I asked. She claims she was already asleep and I woke her up (we’d been in bed 5 minutes). She said yes. After she cries and for at least the next year she holds this against me and says that “she feels like I raped her.” That is strong charged language and I would never ever come close to doing anything resembling that. So asking for sex is off the table more or less. But I agree I may be focusing too much on her. Its tough not to. As for the sex thing, since that incident its been an issue. And I’m not asking for sex, I’m talking intimacy. We can work our way up to sex. I’m talking some touch that’s not superficial. I dance in the kitchen with a kiss at the end or a hug that I’m not starting when I get home from work, an offered massage, cuddling when we got to bed, or some flirting. We can start small. LH: I agree if both people are truly committed, open minded, and willing to really work together a marriage can be fixed, but that is rarely the case.
Another Stander: yes, sex is talked about in MC. Its been something we’ve touched on here and there. We’ve never gotten to a point where its “fixed.” I remember that in 1/2018 we weren’t having sex and then we did one in Q1, twice in Q2 of that year. I’m accused of “keeping track” but I’m good at math and can count to three. Then we got to monthly. Then around June of 2019 it was like twice a month and right before the bomb drop I would say we were close to weekly. Then it went dead. In MC she has basically said we need to back burner that issue while we talk through other things as recently as last week. But there isn’t even a road in that direction since there is zero intimacy (from my perspective). One could argue that post bomb drop there was no morning hug and there was no kiss good night, but we’ve been stuck there since probably November. You conjecture on the WW, since I am a newbie is that it was a physical affair, is that correct?
