Oh, my W has this idea that everything we are doing now is something that I agreed to and wanted. When we S'd, I wanted to see the kids, but also not completely disrupt their lives, because I thought we would work on the MR. Within the first few MC sessions, when I could tell even in the best case this S would be months if not years, I started pressing for more time with them. Her story the whole time has been that the current schedule is what I wanted, and not a schedule I was okay with *for a short time*.
In short, when I ask for an extra night with the kids, she says no because I might need childcare help for a couple hours. But then she is using help herself. If I point this out, she gets upset, says "This is the schedule that YOU wanted" and then the conversation goes nowhere. Last time we talked, she called me delusional.
Text doesn't work based on our history. I've tried e-mail but she rarely responds. We haven't had a 1:1 F2F at a neutral place like a coffee shop since we S'd.
Idk, I am considering proposing that we set a specific topic list and go back to MC2 to discuss just those topics. Kid schedule for the next 2 months. Childcare spending. If we deviate from those topics (and she takes it back to child safety concerns), I will not participate. MC2 is good with communication skills, but just like a MR, it takes two people willing to work on it.
In short, when I ask for an extra night with the kids, she says no because I might need childcare help for a couple hours. But then she is using help herself. If I point this out, she gets upset, says "This is the schedule that YOU wanted" and then the conversation goes nowhere.
In other words the status quo remains
Originally Posted by unchien
Text doesn't work based on our history. I've tried e-mail but she rarely responds. We haven't had a 1:1 F2F at a neutral place like a coffee shop since we S'd.
In other words there has been no good communication to change the status quo
Originally Posted by unchien
Hi may ~ Idk, I am considering proposing that we set a specific topic list and go back to MC2 to discuss just those topics. Kid schedule for the next 2 months. Childcare spending. If we deviate from those topics (and she takes it back to child safety concerns), I will not participate.
If you don't participate, does it change the status quo?
Do you see a pattern here? Do you think your wife has any incentive to change the status quo given how biased it is in her favor?
Unchien you are separated from and about to divorce the same woman I separated from and divorced.
You're not divorced yet. I'm a bit ahead of you in this process.
Let's pretend I'm absolutely right, and let me tell you what is going to happen next.
Your wife is happy in her new fantasy world where she raises the kids without you. You'll go off, sulk for a while and do your thing. She's confident you'll get on with life without your family as it was, and accept how it is and will be forever.
But you'll realize you deserve more. That you deserve to raise your kids 50% of the time, even if at least to make sure they develop your value system and have some balance to hers. You realize you deserve to protect your assets financially.
So in a few weeks (maybe months) you're going to hire a lawyer to make things fair. You're going to draft a separation agreement that defines custody and financial support. Maybe not even file for divorce. Leave that to her and just file for the separation. You ARE separated right? Make her get the divorce.
She's going to read the separation agreement where you ask for 50% custody and fair financial terms. She's going to change.
SHE thinks she's being reasonable and you're delusional. RIGHT NOW. Imagine how she's going to feel and act when you try to move the need to what you think is fair?
Not only is she going to paint you out as the most evil person in the world (yes, to your kids even), she's going take this to court because the only way she can win what SHE thinks is fair is to have a judge learn what a horrible person you are and keep the custody as it has been. As YOU have allowed and asked from from the beginning.
You gave away everything in a bid to keep the peace and have her consider reconciliation. You had no idea she was planning this for years and just happy to get you out of the fricking house.
You have no clue how little you mean to her, and how little desire she has for you to raise your own children. But you're about to find out.
The kicker? She's going to seek a move-away. He'll she can do it now. You don't even have a legal agreement that prevents her from doing that.
This is going to get hyper-expensive. The cheapest thing you can do is start spending money now because when it is over in a few years, you can start to re-build.
My advice is to hire the very best (possibly most expensive) lawyer you can find. Call the top 5 firms in the area. Top 10 for a free consult so you force them to conflict-out of representing her. Then hire the best. You will sleep at night when this ramps up, and a good $800/hour lawyer is going to be a lot cheaper than a bad $400/hour lawyer in the long run.
You are currently on moderation and it would help the moderators and administrators if you would create a thread of your own. By doing so, we can learn a bit more about you and your situation which will help us in determining whether to release you from moderation much quicker.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Oh, my W has this idea that everything we are doing now is something that I agreed to and wanted. When we S'd, I wanted to see the kids, but also not completely disrupt their lives, because I thought we would work on the MR. Within the first few MC sessions, when I could tell even in the best case this S would be months if not years, I started pressing for more time with them. Her story the whole time has been that the current schedule is what I wanted, and not a schedule I was okay with *for a short time*.
In short, when I ask for an extra night with the kids, she says no because I might need childcare help for a couple hours. But then she is using help herself. If I point this out, she gets upset, says "This is the schedule that YOU wanted" and then the conversation goes nowhere. Last time we talked, she called me delusional.
Hey U -
Sorry you're having a rough go of it, man. These situations are never easy, I'm learning that each and every day.
I still think your W is projecting things onto you. And I still think these projections are drawing a reaction from you, and she knows it. You are still the reason for all her problems, at least in her mind, and as long as she has someone (or something) to battle against, these things will continue.
The only reason I say that is that I think at the start of things, both you and I were kind of in the same boat. Our only big differences were that you have kids and I don't.
Originally Posted by unchien
Text doesn't work based on our history. I've tried e-mail but she rarely responds. We haven't had a 1:1 F2F at a neutral place like a coffee shop since we S'd.
Idk, I am considering proposing that we set a specific topic list and go back to MC2 to discuss just those topics. Kid schedule for the next 2 months. Childcare spending. If we deviate from those topics (and she takes it back to child safety concerns), I will not participate. MC2 is good with communication skills, but just like a MR, it takes two people willing to work on it.
Caveat - I am not in any way an expert, but IMO she might see it as controlling...?
What calmed things down in my sit was complete and total detachment. At the beginning of the sit, i was reacting to W's overblown accusations (and they were ridiculous), so I eliminated myself from the equation. Let W think all kinds of things and just do my own thing without worrying about what she was thinking.
A few questions for you:
Is she actively pursuing D or mediation?
Or is it you who wants to start moving on?
What is it you want? Do you really want D?
Does your W still want D?
Do you know what she is thinking all the time?
Are you standing?
The answers to those questions will give you clarity and help you move forward.
For the record, while IHS my W claimed to want D at least half a dozen times between 5 and 10 months ago. She has not mentioned it since August and since I pulled way back.
Point is, not all feelings are static and forever. If she said it once it was how she was feeling at that moment. Also I recognized that W was in a crisis and was not thinking logically.
Anyway - not to be harsh, but figure out what you want. That's the most important thing. Once you have a concrete idea of what you want, then you can have a plan and move forward.
Stay strong, man
Last edited by IronWill; 01/09/2002:55 AM. Reason: IronWill can't spell :)
I want more time with my kids, and I want to stop spending several K per month to sustain a limbo situation that is not going anywhere.
Originally Posted by IronWill
Does your W still want D?
No idea.
Originally Posted by IronWill
Do you know what she is thinking all the time?
Nope. I know what she is thinking NONE of the time.
Originally Posted by IronWill
Are you standing?
This is the question that has me pause and think alot.
I've really stepped away from identifying myself as "standing." What does that mean in my situation? If I continue in limbo, am I standing, or am I perpetuating a situation that leads nowhere? If I file for D, am I (counter-intuitively) standing for my MR, because I am standing up for myself and my basic needs (more time with the kids, better financial situation)?
If I had to reduce this to a simple answer, NO I am not standing anymore. Emotionally I have no desire to R today. But if I was standing, I think I would be making the same decisions anyways.
I guess I see it like this: AMOAFWL would work to get fair time with his kids and a fair financial situation.
This is the question that has me pause and think alot.
I've really stepped away from identifying myself as "standing." What does that mean in my situation? If I continue in limbo, am I standing, or am I perpetuating a situation that leads nowhere? If I file for D, am I (counter-intuitively) standing for my MR, because I am standing up for myself and my basic needs (more time with the kids, better financial situation)?
Well, I would let her do all the D work. Unless you're ok with knowing that you filed for D when it wasn't what you wanted in the first place.
Playing devil's advocate here - the kids would grow up knowing their Dad was the one that initiated D, regardless of counter intuition or not.
Something to think about, anyway.
Is there any way you can alleviate your financial situation with the house/expenses without jumping right to D? Is there a way to separate those two issues, or are they intertwined?
Originally Posted by unchien
NO I am not standing anymore.
2x4 - you are gonna do what you want to do, and I respect that. Just make sure this isn't an emotional decision.
Originally Posted by unchien
I guess I see it like this: AMOAFWL would work to get fair time with his kids and a fair financial situation.
If that is what you see as AMOAFWL, then that's what you need to do. For me its leaving everything out there and knowing that I tried my damndest to do all I could. It's different for all of us.
Our situations seem to diverge here, so I don't know how much more help I can be.
I hope you're well, Unchien. It's been a while since I checked in to your situation and I see things are still really difficult for you - the communication, the fear about the future, the lurking threats your wife has made, the difficulty in getting the schedule with your children sorted and agreed in a way that's acceptable to you.
I guess my one piece of advice for you would be to frame all your communications - via your L, email, text, in court, in mediation (if it comes to that) in terms of what is best for the children. Not what is fair for you. 50/50 may well be in the best interests of the children (I think a good dad is priceless, a child has a right to a strong and close relationship with her/his dad and his involvement in their day to day life, not just weekends and holidays) and if it is, then demonstrating what you have been offering and are still offering, rather than concentrating on what your rights are or what you want is likely to be a more positive approach.
It sounds like your wife is - deliberately or not - impossible to communicate with. I am not sure she really wants to communicate. If you were to proceed with the assumption that communications from her were more or less nothing but noise, what would you do? I think going through a mediator or lawyer and getting everything written down by someone who isn't either of you is necessary now.
I'd also suggest that what you do with the kids while they are with you is, within reason, your own business. If you need some childcare assistance, well, you're their father and you can either be trusted to get that responsibly and with their best interests in mind, or you aren't and if you aren't, she needs to demonstrate that and you shouldn't be seeing them that much at all.
If I had a joint custody arrangement with my H I'd expect him to handle and finance his own childcare arrangements on his own time. I have no fears - real or concocted - that he'd hire a serial killer to sit with them after school. If I did have those fears, I'd expect to be asked for solid evidence of why I thought his bad judgement was likely, or why the arrangements he'd made were unsuitable. I know I am in the UK and the system might be different, but I do think you could be more assertive here and get out of the mindset that you need your W's approval for decisions you make, as their father, for what happens with them on their time with you.
She's either trying to control you, there's something more to your past behaviour you have not disclosed (I don't think that's the case) or she's genuinely struggling with an anxiety problem and the difficulty of realising she isn't ever going to be in total control of ever aspect of her children's lives. Either way, the most loving thing you can do for your kids - and I believe for your wife - is not to enable that irrationality.
She's either trying to control you, there's something more to your past behaviour you have not disclosed (I don't think that's the case) or she's genuinely struggling with an anxiety problem and the difficulty of realising she isn't ever going to be in total control of ever aspect of her children's lives. Either way, the most loving thing you can do for your kids - and I believe for your wife - is not to enable that irrationality.
Hi Alison ~
Thanks for checking in!
I have been keeping communications (as much as possible) strictly business. It's only been a few days, and she seems to get annoyed if I don't respond to a non-urgent question, but I think going as dark as possible right now is best.
I am fairly sure I have disclosed my past behavior before. Lately I am a little more wary about sharing details here as things may turn into a legal situation. So I need to be vague even though I would prefer to let it all out. But I am pretty sure I have laid it all out here in my (very long) thread.
I turn things over and over in my head lately. I know I deserve a massive 2x4 for mind-reading but here goes - I think it would be useful for me to lay this out. Understand that I know the below is highly speculative:
My W thinks I have some sort of an emotional dysregulation issue. She thinks by going to MC she is being kind -- allowing me to hear her feedback and allowing me to continue to have a relationship with the kids when she could have chosen to go to court and moved away to her hometown. The MC was initially convinced, and may still be for all I know. I think she has convinced a lot of people she has told.
My W's background is in the mental health field. Some people in this field have a tendency to diagnose and categorize the people in their lives. I believe she has done this with me. This will likely never change. This is a dangerous dynamic in any relationship ... the thought that one person knows better than the other.
My attempts to earn my W's trust have only reinforced her views. Even my attempts to validate her feelings (but not admit to her truth) have only reinforced her views. Those attempts were a huge mistake. I should have stood up for myself, I should have stopped trying to win her back. Instead, I thought by moving closer to her point of view, listening, validating, etc., would help win her back. But she has treated it as admissions of guilt.
I definitely contributed to the downfall of our MR. When we moved, she was so distant. I remember even before we moved, there were signs of problems. She seemed upset one day and I asked "Are you mad?" and she yelled "F*@K YOU!" back at me (she later said she hated when I "projected" onto her). This was more than two years before we finally separated. It goes back a long way. She was probably depressed, maybe resentful. But I missed her and it felt awful. Sometimes I broke down in front of her. Sometimes she felt smothered. My attempts to reconnect were desperate, and they served to reinforce my W's views that I have an emotional problem. I've talked about my NGS and anxiety, which I have a better handle on these days. They led me down this path of more or less buying in 100% into her truth, while also trying to fix things. It's not her fault, those things are my fault.
So... she thinks she is doing me a favor by NOT L'ing up and filing for D and a move away. She thinks she is being kind. She thinks it is very difficult for her to have these fears about me but still allow me to have the kids 4 days at a time.
Have I been gaslighted? Or do I really have an emotional dysregulation issue? It has messed with my head for a long time. I hold onto certain touch-points that help ground me in reality. For instance, her saying I was "yelling loudly" a few weeks ago when all I said calmly was "I no longer want to discuss this." She mischaracterizes words, events. It gets worse when she is scared.
How do you listen and validate to someone who is sharing feelings that are based on a distorted version of reality (at least how I see it)? What if their feelings may lead to a legally problematic situation? I don't have answers.
I no longer want to play this game with her. I know it's not a game for her, it is life and death. What I mean is, I am not going to participate in her narrative. I am going to keep doing what I am doing, go to IC, read parenting books, GAL, PMA, and remain steadfast in my goals which are to be the best dad I can be for my kids, and also be to be happier, healthier UC. My W's narrative is toxic and unhealthy. The more I try to earn her trust, the more I am saying "Yes, W, your version of the truth is correct, I am truly unsafe with the children, you should be really worried about me." This may mean a legal conclusion where I am put on the stand to testify to events. It may mean getting less custody than I want with the kids. Maybe I don't get joint custody. I don't know. Maybe I go through h3ll the next 2 years dealing with this.
Maybe my kids are scarred for life. That's the one that stings the most. I don't mind going through h3ll, but they don't deserve this. My heart hurts for them. I see how easily I could pack up my bags and just let my W have her way and probably make it "easier" on the kids. That pressure is also hanging in the air.
I can't really explain how much of a mind-screw this situation is for me.
